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[gambit05]

Edit: Update 16. Oct. 2020

→  Part 2

Cart $3* - Action +2 Actions +$2 +1 Card per empty pile. Return this to its pile. (This is not in the Supply.)

I have followed segura’s suggestion and simplified Cart (i.e. I deleted the discarding part).   I will leave the original image and its now obsolete description below. Please note that for both versions, all empty piles (not only Supply piles) count for an upgrade of Cart. While there is no official card that has such an instruction as far as I am aware of, piles should be defined as being set up at the start of the game (or if a Fan-made or future official card would allow to form a pile later in the game, it should define it as such). All cards of a non-Supply pile are labeled with “(This is not in the Supply.)” and I think no other cards (e.g. Heirlooms, Shelters, Zombies) that are not part of a non-Supply pile have this note. An exception is the Black Market deck for obvious reasons. It is defined as a “deck” by the card’s set-up instructions. In relation to Cart, I count it as a pile, though in practice that should be rarely relevant anyway.

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Cart This is a one-shot non-Supply card like Horse. Notable differences are that the strength of Cart depends on the number of empty piles (note: any piles, not only Supply piles) and that the number of cards in the Cart pile is more limited, i.e. 8 for 2 players and 2 more for each additional player. I hope the text of Cart is unambiguous. If not, here is an example of how it works: Alice plays a Cart. At that time two piles are empty, one of them being Carts. Therefore, she draws 2 cards, then discards one and then returns the played Cart to its pile. When Alice (or another player) plays a Cart again, she draws one card now (since the Cart pile is not empty; but the other one still is) and does not discard a card. Then she returns the Cart to its pile. Of course, all the way along the Carts produced Actions and $. To illustrate how Carts interact in the game, I start with three of the cards that can gain them:

Cart $3* - Action +2 Actions +$2 +1 Card per empty pile; then discard 1 card less. Return this to its pile. (This is not in the Supply).

   

Glass Slipper $3 - Action +2 Cards              You may discard a card              to gain a Cart.

Hector $3 – Action +$2 If one or more piles are empty, gain a Cart. ----------------------- When you gain this, if no              pile is empty, +1 Villager.

Sleepy Hollow $4 – Action – Attack - Looter Gain a Cart.   Each other player may              discard a Cart to draw a              card. If they don’t, they gain a Ruins.

Glass Slipper
Just a cheap and simple card.

Hector
A terminal Silver with a one-time bonus of a Villager as long as no piles are empty, and the possibility of gaining Carts, but only when at least one pile is empty.

Sleepy Hollow
Sleepy Hollow unconditionally gains Carts (if available) and attacks other players. If in hand, opponents have the option of using a Cart for their defense.

[segura]

I’d make it simpler and get rid of the discarding. The average number of turns in which two or more Supply piles are empty (during the Action phase) is fairly low (I’d guess, below 1).

[gambit05]

I’d make it simpler and get rid of the discarding. The average number of turns in which two or more Supply piles are empty (during the Action phase) is fairly low (I’d guess, below 1).

I was concerned that Cart might be too powerful with certain cards (e.g. Travelers), but after a second thought, I agree. Those situations are not very common.

[GendoIkari]

I’d make it simpler and get rid of the discarding. The average number of turns in which two or more Supply piles are empty (during the Action phase) is fairly low (I’d guess, below 1).

I was concerned that Cart might be too powerful with certain cards (e.g. Travelers), but after a second thought, I agree. Those situations are not very common.

Is "per empty pile" supposed to be "per empty supply pile", like City or Poacher? If so, how would Travelers affect it? If not, that seems like a bad idea; it would be really weird to be affected by things like Prizes, etc.

[gambit05]

I’d make it simpler and get rid of the discarding. The average number of turns in which two or more Supply piles are empty (during the Action phase) is fairly low (I’d guess, below 1).

I was concerned that Cart might be too powerful with certain cards (e.g. Travelers), but after a second thought, I agree. Those situations are not very common.

Is "per empty pile" supposed to be "per empty supply pile", like City or Poacher? If so, how would Travelers affect it? If not, that seems like a bad idea; it would be really weird to be affected by things like Prizes, etc.

That was what I worried about. It is indeed any pile not just Supply piles. That is crucial to make Cart interesting, as it is itself a non-Supply pile with a limited number of cards (8 for 2 players; +2 for each additional player). Therefore, as you pointed out, Travelers and Prizes would count. However, those are only 2 Traveler lines and 1 Prize pile. In the latter case, the game would be pretty much over anyway. Are there other non-Supply piles around that may get emptied frequently (I cannot think of any)? Do you think those 3 cards could spoil the idea to simplifying Cart's text?

[GendoIkari]

I’d make it simpler and get rid of the discarding. The average number of turns in which two or more Supply piles are empty (during the Action phase) is fairly low (I’d guess, below 1).

I was concerned that Cart might be too powerful with certain cards (e.g. Travelers), but after a second thought, I agree. Those situations are not very common.

Is "per empty pile" supposed to be "per empty supply pile", like City or Poacher? If so, how would Travelers affect it? If not, that seems like a bad idea; it would be really weird to be affected by things like Prizes, etc.

That was what I worried about. It is indeed any pile not just Supply piles. That is crucial to make Cart interesting, as it is itself a non-Supply pile with a limited number of cards (8 for 2 players; +2 for each additional player). Therefore, as you pointed out, Travelers and Prizes would count. However, those are only 2 Traveler lines and 1 Prize pile. In the latter case, the game would be pretty much over anyway. Are there other non-Supply piles around that may get emptied frequently (I cannot think of any)? Do you think those 3 cards could spoil the idea to simplifying Cart's text?

Maybe I only think it's really weird because nothing in the game currently deals with it. But maybe it's also because I don't know how to clearly define what counts as a pile. What about the trash? Obviously you didn't intend that to be counted; but what makes it "not a pile"? We do know that things like Shelters and Heirlooms don't have a pile; that has mattered before for things like Ambassador.

That aside, Black Market could be a weird one; as rules allow for the Black Market deck to be any size you want.

Even with limited numbers in the Cart pile, is it actually common to run out when every play of them returns them to the pile?

[gambit05]

I’d make it simpler and get rid of the discarding. The average number of turns in which two or more Supply piles are empty (during the Action phase) is fairly low (I’d guess, below 1).

I was concerned that Cart might be too powerful with certain cards (e.g. Travelers), but after a second thought, I agree. Those situations are not very common.

Is "per empty pile" supposed to be "per empty supply pile", like City or Poacher? If so, how would Travelers affect it? If not, that seems like a bad idea; it would be really weird to be affected by things like Prizes, etc.

That was what I worried about. It is indeed any pile not just Supply piles. That is crucial to make Cart interesting, as it is itself a non-Supply pile with a limited number of cards (8 for 2 players; +2 for each additional player). Therefore, as you pointed out, Travelers and Prizes would count. However, those are only 2 Traveler lines and 1 Prize pile. In the latter case, the game would be pretty much over anyway. Are there other non-Supply piles around that may get emptied frequently (I cannot think of any)? Do you think those 3 cards could spoil the idea to simplifying Cart's text?

Maybe I only think it's really weird because nothing in the game currently deals with it. But maybe it's also because I don't know how to clearly define what counts as a pile. What about the trash? Obviously you didn't intend that to be counted; but what makes it "not a pile"? We do know that things like Shelters and Heirlooms don't have a pile; that has mattered before for things like Ambassador.

That aside, Black Market could be a weird one; as rules allow for the Black Market deck to be any size you want.

Even with limited numbers in the Cart pile, is it actually common to run out when every play of them returns them to the pile?

I wouldn't count the Trash as a pile. The easiest definition of a pile is that it start as such at the start of the game. Okay, Necromancer comes into mind, and I still wouldn't count it; and even if; it is unlikely to be emptied. Despite that, it is more an intuition than that I exactly know what the definition of a pile is, but I am confident that such a definition can be made.

A Black Market deck that runs out quickly would be weird on its own.

I have played only with a prototype of Cart and only with 3 or for 4 players (not 2) and with a static number of 10 cards. It worked relatively well, i.e. sometimes the pile was empty for a considerable period during the game. Now, I have designed some Cart gaining cards (Sleepy Hollow is shown above) that give additional options to keep the Carts in the game and thus make it more likely to empty the pile. The ultimate goal is to find a balance.

Edit: Most cases are probably defined by the phrase: "This is not in the Supply", i.e. those cards form a pile. The Zombies in the Trash do not form a pile, as they are all equally available from the beginning of the game. This just leaves the Black Market deck. Naturally, those cards cannot have the "This is not in the Supply" wording, but that shouldn't be a reason to prevent using "piles" as target.

[gambit05]

Part 2

Here are four more Cart gaining cards and the updated version of Cart as reference. For a definition of piles, see the original post.

Cart $3* - Action +2 Actions +$2 +1 Card per empty pile. Return this to its pile. (This is not in the Supply.)

Nausicaa $2 – Action - Duration Choose one: Take 1 Debt for +2 Cards; or exchange this for a Cart to your hand. If this is still in play, at the start of your next turn, choose        one: Take 1 Debt for +2 Cards;        or exchange this for a Cart.

Achilles $4 – Action +1 Action Gain a Cart. --------------------- While this is in play, when           you return a Cart to its pile,            Exile it.

Town Musicians $4 – Action Gain a Cart. You may discard an Action card. If you do, choose two:          +2 Cards; or +2 Actions; or          +2 Buys; or +$2. The choices must be different.

Scriptorium $6 – Action - Reaction Take up to 3 Debt to discard that many cards. Draw until you have 7 cards in hand. ---------------------           When you discard this, other            than during Clean-up, you may reveal it to gain a Cart.

Nausicaa
This is a new and hopefully better version of Passage, which some of you thought to be too strong. This version gives a player twice the choice to keep the card for Debt and drawing or to replace it with a Cart.

Achilles
This one is able to stop returning Carts to their pile and thus increases the chance to upgrade Carts. The only problem is that in order to get the Exiled Carts back to the active deck, one has to gain another Cart.

Town Musicians
This literally offers different Ways if an Action card is discarded. It may come quite handy to discard a Cart, or even better a Ruins for triggering the effect.

Scriptorium
This card gains Carts via its Reaction; i.e. when it is discarded outside of the Clean-up phase. When played, it is a draw-to-X card that can increase its drawing power by discarding unwanted cards first for an obolus. Since Cart is a Village variant that reduces the number of cards in hands, it provides a nice combo with Scriptorium.