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Author Topic: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer  (Read 31301 times)

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markus

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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #75 on: September 27, 2018, 02:28:31 pm »
+8

We've known what Projects look like since the start of the week.

But I don't think that it's helpful to post unwanted spoilers even if you find them. Because it potentially means that Stef has to put more effort into hiding these things - effort that would be much better spent working on other things. Or in the worst case we couldn't have these previews in the online client.
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pacovf

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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #76 on: September 27, 2018, 03:46:25 pm »
0

Flag bearer is my favourite art until now :p

I have trouble seeing how good Treasurer is:

The first option is a slightly better Moneylender, which isn't bad but isn't worth 5$. The second option is really good if there's Trash-for-Benefit (etc), but not all games have that, and then it's pretty useless. Which leaves the last option, which is comparable to Merchant Ship if you keep the Key for one turn, gets better if you keep it any longer, but is underwhelming if it's taken away from you before then.

I guess in games without TfB, all players buy one just to prevent someone from keeping the Key all game long.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 03:48:33 pm by pacovf »
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Jeebus

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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #77 on: September 27, 2018, 03:57:44 pm »
+1

River's Gift can make you draw a card at the end of somebody else's turn. You don't do that when capturing the flag during an opponent's turn. (It could (would have to) be phrased "at the end of your turns" of course.)

Right, thanks. River's Gift would have to be phrased something like "the next time you are at the end of your turn", or better, "the next time you draw your hand".

dbclick

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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #78 on: September 27, 2018, 04:05:07 pm »
0

Flag bearer is my favourite art until now :p

I have trouble seeing how good Treasurer is:

The first option is a slightly better Moneylender, which isn't bad but isn't worth 5$. The second option is really good if there's Trash-for-Benefit (etc), but not all games have that, and then it's pretty useless. Which leaves the last option, which is comparable to Merchant Ship if you keep the Key for one turn, gets better if you keep it any longer, but is underwhelming if it's taken away from you before then.

I guess in games without TfB, all players buy one just to prevent someone from keeping the Key all game long.

If you can know (or guess) that the other player(s) can't play a Treasurer before the next time you do, you can use it to hide extra money in the trash that you don't need this turn via the second option, kind of like a weird terminal Crypt variant. Just played a game where that was a factor. Not always applicable, but interesting sometimes.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #79 on: September 27, 2018, 04:34:47 pm »
+1

We've known what Projects look like since the start of the week.

But I don't think that it's helpful to post unwanted spoilers even if you find them. Because it potentially means that Stef has to put more effort into hiding these things - effort that would be much better spent working on other things. Or in the worst case we couldn't have these previews in the online client.

Hence why I only made thinly veiled "predictions". Anybody who cares enough to dig for spoilers can figure them out for themselves, poking around in the ShIT files isn't hard.
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King Leon

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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #80 on: September 27, 2018, 04:49:40 pm »
0

Is this well tested in 4 player games? It seems to be very swingy and somewhat political (like buying Flagbearer just to capture the flag from another player).

Small question: Flag Key interacts with Outpost, but not with Guide, have I understood that correctly? And it is often (but not always) worse than Hireling or Princed Ruined Library in case of handsize attacks.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 05:49:05 pm by King Leon »
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Jeebus

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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #81 on: September 27, 2018, 05:08:53 pm »
0

Small question: Key interacts with Outpost, but not with Guide, have I understood that correctly?

Yes, "drawing your hand" only happens in Clean-up. So Outpost, Expedition, and now Key Flag.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 07:21:56 pm by Jeebus »
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King Leon

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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #82 on: September 27, 2018, 05:47:54 pm »
0

Small question: Key Flag interacts with Outpost, but not with Guide, have I understood that correctly?

Yes, "drawing your hand" only happens in Clean-up. So Outpost, Expedition, and now Key.

Sorry, I meant Flag, but you gave the answer I expected.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 05:49:55 pm by King Leon »
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mameluke

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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #83 on: September 27, 2018, 10:46:22 pm »
0

Bonfire / Flagbearer is interesting.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #84 on: September 28, 2018, 01:04:47 am »
0

Is this well tested in 4 player games? It seems to be very swingy and somewhat political (like buying Flagbearer just to capture the flag from another player).

Small question: Flag Key interacts with Outpost, but not with Guide, have I understood that correctly? And it is often (but not always) worse than Hireling or Princed Ruined Library in case of handsize attacks.

The majority of playtesting is done IRL with 3-4 player games.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #85 on: September 28, 2018, 01:22:47 am »
0

Bonfire / Flagbearer is interesting.

Just played a game with Procession & Flagbearer. That was fun.

greybirdofprey

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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #86 on: September 28, 2018, 08:48:05 am »
0

If an Ambassador causes everyone else to gain Flagbearers, who ends up with the flag?

I think Attacks are usually handled clockwise starting at the left of the player. Same with interaction effects. Most of the time it doesn't matter so in practice people just do it as soon as it's played. Unless otherwise specified of course, like Masquerade.

An example: it's a four-player game with one Curse left. Someone plays Witch.
Or it's a four-player game with one Gold left, someone plays Vault, and everyone else has a Tunnel in hand.
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ipofanes

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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #87 on: September 28, 2018, 08:49:30 am »
0

Flag bearer is my favourite art until now :p

I have trouble seeing how good Treasurer is:

The first option is a slightly better Moneylender, which isn't bad but isn't worth 5$. The second option is really good if there's Trash-for-Benefit (etc), but not all games have that, and then it's pretty useless. Which leaves the last option, which is comparable to Merchant Ship if you keep the Key for one turn, gets better if you keep it any longer, but is underwhelming if it's taken away from you before then.

I guess in games without TfB, all players buy one just to prevent someone from keeping the Key all game long.

At worst, it's a terminal Gold since you can always claim the key although you own it. Other terminal Golds are in the $5 range too, and most come with a twist (others can use the boon, you must topdeck a card etc.). Even without the second option: A Moneylender which is still useful even if it hits no copper would be worth notably more.

And the argument that a card is not great because someone else might buy a copy of it to weaken the effect of yours is maybe valid in >=3p games, but loses a bit traction in 2p.
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Minotaur

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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #88 on: September 28, 2018, 02:54:17 pm »
+2

The one game I have with Swashbuckler, there are no other Coffer cards on the board.  There's very little chance to take the Treasure chest in such a game.  :(  Just goes to show that every Swashbuckler needs a Villain.  Or a pile of Ducats if it's like a slow day for villainy, I guess.

Anyone else think Swashbuckler looks Scarlett Johansson with duckface?
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #89 on: September 28, 2018, 06:36:49 pm »
0

The one game I have with Swashbuckler, there are no other Coffer cards on the board.  There's very little chance to take the Treasure chest in such a game.  :(  Just goes to show that every Swashbuckler needs a Villain.  Or a pile of Ducats if it's like a slow day for villainy, I guess.
IIRC, it was the first game I played with Swashbuckler that there was no other coffers cards and I got the Treasure Chest. You just need good way to discard cards mid-turn (I used scrying pool).

GendoIkari

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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #90 on: September 29, 2018, 12:28:20 pm »
0

Does every artifact have exactly 1 parent card? Or is that unknown information for now?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #91 on: September 29, 2018, 12:30:54 pm »
+1

Can you take the Key if you already have the Key? Or l, I suppose, even if you canít, you can choose that option for Treasury even if you have the Key, right?
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TheOthin

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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #92 on: September 29, 2018, 12:44:31 pm »
+1

Can you take the Key if you already have the Key? Or l, I suppose, even if you canít, you can choose that option for Treasury even if you have the Key, right?
Yeah, you can choose "take the key" and it does nothing.

Online, there's a "do nothing" option if you already have the key.
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greybirdofprey

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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #93 on: September 29, 2018, 03:37:07 pm »
+4

Swashbuckler loves Dungeon, Silos, Hamlet...
but ESPECIALLY Plaza.
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crj

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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #94 on: September 29, 2018, 06:46:23 pm »
0

Can you take the Key if you already have the Key? Or l, I suppose, even if you canít, you can choose that option for Treasury even if you have the Key, right?
Agreed, you can clearly choose the "take the Key" option if you play Treasury when you have the key. And it doesn't really matter whether you then do nothing, or take the Key you already have.

On the other hand, if an Artifact ever says "When you take this..." it'll matter.
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vishwathg

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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #95 on: September 29, 2018, 07:00:01 pm »
+2

Can you take the Key if you already have the Key? Or l, I suppose, even if you canít, you can choose that option for Treasury even if you have the Key, right?
Agreed, you can clearly choose the "take the Key" option if you play Treasury when you have the key. And it doesn't really matter whether you then do nothing, or take the Key you already have.

On the other hand, if an Artifact ever says "When you take this..." it'll matter.

Treasurer, not Treasury.
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crj

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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #96 on: September 29, 2018, 07:11:01 pm »
+5

Whoops.

I'm sure I'll never make that mistake again...
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ipofanes

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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #97 on: October 01, 2018, 03:50:47 am »
0

To add to Treasurer's praise:



The second option is really good if there's Trash-for-Benefit (etc), but not all games have that, and then it's pretty useless.

You can still gain Copper from the trash, which is possible in almost every game. Everyone who has never used Ill-Gotten-Gains' ability may dismiss this as useless, but at times it is nice to spike a turn or refill the deck with fodder for Altars or Priests.

Among $5 golds, I would rank only Courtier higher (in most decks).
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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #98 on: October 01, 2018, 05:44:54 am »
+2

You stab him in the heart.
Is that what trashing means? I never realised. I feel so bad. I'm not sure I can play this game any more.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #4: Flag Bearer, Swashbuckler, Treasurer
« Reply #99 on: October 01, 2018, 01:45:00 pm »
+3

You stab him in the heart.
Is that what trashing means? I never realised. I feel so bad. I'm not sure I can play this game any more.

You thought Knights were just tickling everybody?  And Graverobber, what does he do?  Death Cart?  If you have alternative narratives, they might be entertaining...
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