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[senneth]

If you start with 2 coin your next hand has 5 coin. If you start with 5 coin your next hand has two coin. Seems consistent.

[Jimmmmm]

What happens if you start with 6 coin?

[pacovf]

Wait, that can’t be true.

*tries it out*

Well shit!

[Awaclus]

Here are some more rules: if you start with 2 coin, Ambassador is on the board. If your opponent starts with 2 coin, Mountebank is on the board.

[GendoIkari]

Welcome to the site!

Um, so first off, did you mean to post this in "Feedback"? That's where people go to talk about F.DS itself.

Second, while the rule is often true, and was always true through the first several expansions, it is no longer a necessarily true. Nomad Camp, Ghost Town, Noble Brigand, Lost City, and many others now can change that.

[Chris is me]

If you start with 2 coin your next hand has 5 coin. If you start with 5 coin your next hand has two coin. Seems consistent.

I’m not sure if you’re joking, but in case you aren’t and that this only just occurred to you:

Your deck is 10 cards, 7 Copper 3 Estate, and it is shuffled before the game begins. Since (in normal circumstances) it is not shuffled between turns 1 and 2, the next 5 cards you see are guaranteed to be the 5 cards you didn’t see on Turn 1. Thus as soon as you see your Turn 1 hand, you know what your first two hands will be, unless you buy something that instantly changes that (eg buying a card gained to the top of your deck, using Borrow which lowers the number of cards drawn next turn, etc).

I don’t mean to put too fine a point on it, but this principle is basically as fundamental and obvious as object permanence. If this didn’t immediately make sense to you when learning the rules of the game, you have a ways to go before you can really grasp high level Dominion play. Being aware of what the contents of your deck are is an extremely important skill.

[Witherweaver]

If you start with 2 coin your next hand has 5 coin. If you start with 5 coin your next hand has two coin. Seems consistent.

My take is that this is true whenever it is true, and false whenever it is false.

[GendoIkari]

If you start with 2 coin your next hand has 5 coin. If you start with 5 coin your next hand has two coin. Seems consistent.

My take is that this is true whenever it is true, and false whenever it is false.

It's true at least 80-83% of the time.

[filovirus]

If you start with 2 coin your next hand has 5 coin. If you start with 5 coin your next hand has two coin. Seems consistent.

My take is that this is true whenever it is true, and false whenever it is false.

It's true at least 80-83% of the time.

56% of all statistics are made up.

[ThetaSigma12]

If you start with 2 coin your next hand has 5 coin. If you start with 5 coin your next hand has two coin. Seems consistent.

My take is that this is true whenever it is true, and false whenever it is false.

It's true at least 80-83% of the time.

56% of all statistics are made up.

And 67.4% of them have a decimal point added to seem more accurate.

[GendoIkari]

This really makes me want to make a list of cards that cause this to not be true. I'm almost sure it was always true before Hinterlands. Trying for off the top of my head; so I know I'll be missing plenty:

Nomad Camp
Noble Brigand
Lost City
Borrow
Baker
Mandarin
Inn
Ghost Town
Guardian
Save
Alms (sort of... you do have , but you can get a )
Doctor
Messenger

[LibraryAdventurer]

+
Den of Sin
Travelling Fair
Night Watchman
EDIT: Blessed Village (via boons), Cursed Gold, Fool (via boons)

[Kirian]

Blessed Village

[Chris is me]

Scouting Party, Expedition are the ones I think that are missed from before Nocturne. Cursed Village certainly can fuck it up too.

[singletee]

+
Den of Sin
Travelling Fair
Night Watchman
EDIT: Blessed Village (via boons), Cursed Gold, Fool (via boons)

How does Fool work? Normally there's no way to play it until turn 3.

Summon
Villa
Advance+Shelters
Goat+Shelters

[Kirian]

Remember that Platinum/Platinum was a popular opening on isotropic for a few hours.

[GendoIkari]

I don't blame myself for missing a bunch of Nocturne, but I really should have gotten Travelling Fair, Summon, Villa, and Expedition!

[LibraryAdventurer]

+
Den of Sin
Travelling Fair
Night Watchman
EDIT: Blessed Village (via boons), Cursed Gold, Fool (via boons)

How does Fool work? Normally there's no way to play it until turn 3.

Oops. I was thinking you get the boons on-gain for some reason.

[werothegreat]

Ferry.  Plan.

[GendoIkari]

Ferry.  Plan.

Ferry works in the way that Alms works, by having a similar effect without technically working. Plan doesn't work at all? Unless you just mean that it lets you do something different/new on the first 2 turns.. but it doesn't change what you can afford on turn 2.

[senneth]

Certainly there are cards which change it, or which you can buy -- but it remains true that most of the time that happens, regardless of which deck I have up. I just posted it because it's funny, and sometimes a pain in the arse. =D I did mean to post it here, but forgive me if it was the wrong spot.

[faust]

Ferry.  Plan.

Ferry works in the way that Alms works, by having a similar effect without technically working. Plan doesn't work at all? Unless you just mean that it lets you do something different/new on the first 2 turns.. but it doesn't change what you can afford on turn 2.

Hand on T1 is 3 Copper, Pouch, Overgrown Estate. Buy Plan on Poor House, then Poor House and trash Overgrown Estate. I don't see a way to make it work on 5/2 without any of the other cards though.

[werothegreat]

Ferry.  Plan.

Ferry works in the way that Alms works, by having a similar effect without technically working. Plan doesn't work at all? Unless you just mean that it lets you do something different/new on the first 2 turns.. but it doesn't change what you can afford on turn 2.

Ferry lets you open 0/6 or 0/5.  Plan (and Bonfire, actually) don't change split values, but do change deck compositions after the first shuffle.

[Awaclus]

Ferry.  Plan.

Ferry works in the way that Alms works, by having a similar effect without technically working. Plan doesn't work at all? Unless you just mean that it lets you do something different/new on the first 2 turns.. but it doesn't change what you can afford on turn 2.

Ferry lets you open 0/6 or 0/5.  Plan (and Bonfire, actually) don't change split values, but do change deck compositions after the first shuffle.

If you open Ferry/Altar, you still had $3 in the first hand and $4 in the second hand.

[GendoIkari]

Yeah if we extend the question to be anything that change what you can do before shuffling; it’s a lot more; including lots of events and landmarks. I think alter and ferry are worth mentioning because they give you more than $2 buying power after having $5, but they still don’t fit in a literal sense.

[faust]

Ferry.  Plan.

Ferry works in the way that Alms works, by having a similar effect without technically working. Plan doesn't work at all? Unless you just mean that it lets you do something different/new on the first 2 turns.. but it doesn't change what you can afford on turn 2.

Ferry lets you open 0/6 or 0/5.  Plan (and Bonfire, actually) don't change split values, but do change deck compositions after the first shuffle.

Every card you buy changes your deck composition after the first shuffle...

[Witherweaver]

Ferry.  Plan.

Ferry works in the way that Alms works, by having a similar effect without technically working. Plan doesn't work at all? Unless you just mean that it lets you do something different/new on the first 2 turns.. but it doesn't change what you can afford on turn 2.

Ferry lets you open 0/6 or 0/5.  Plan (and Bonfire, actually) don't change split values, but do change deck compositions after the first shuffle.

Every card you buy changes your deck composition after the first shuffle...

Except when it doesn't!

[FemurLemur]

If you start with 2 coin your next hand has 5 coin. If you start with 5 coin your next hand has two coin. Seems consistent.

My take is that this is true whenever it is true, and false whenever it is false.

But if the antecedent is false then I would actually call it "vacuously true"

(...Making obscure references to a thread that you accidentally ruined by bringing up the philosophy of mathematics before it got heated and Donald X had to move it to RSP is how you make friends, right?)

[FemurLemur]

To the OP: is there perhaps a corollary to this argument that you would like to make? Hint hint, it relates to starting with 3 or 4 coins instead.

[vishwathg]

Remember that Platinum/Platinum was a popular opening on isotropic for a few hours.

What?

[Awaclus]

Remember that Platinum/Platinum was a popular opening on isotropic for a few hours.

What?

Remember that Platinum/Platinum was a popular opening on isotropic for a few hours.

[vishwathg]

Remember that Platinum/Platinum was a popular opening on isotropic for a few hours.

What?

Remember that Platinum/Platinum was a popular opening on isotropic for a few hours.

No, I don't understand; I don't think I was there for that

[Awaclus]

Remember that Platinum/Platinum was a popular opening on isotropic for a few hours.

What?

Remember that Platinum/Platinum was a popular opening on isotropic for a few hours.

No, I don't understand; I don't think I was there for that

The checking of whether or not you had enough money to buy something was initially done client-side on Isotropic, until someone was able to abuse that to open Platinum/Platinum and then it was changed to server-side. (IIRC)

[hypercube]

Remember that Platinum/Platinum was a popular opening on isotropic for a few hours.

What?

Remember that Platinum/Platinum was a popular opening on isotropic for a few hours.

No, I don't understand; I don't think I was there for that

The checking of whether or not you had enough money to buy something was initially done client-side on Isotropic, until someone was able to abuse that to open Platinum/Platinum and then it was changed to server-side. (IIRC)

It's a pretty colossal failure of the imagination to use an infinite money cheat to buy a card that gives you money.

[GendoIkari]

Remember that Platinum/Platinum was a popular opening on isotropic for a few hours.

What?

Remember that Platinum/Platinum was a popular opening on isotropic for a few hours.

No, I don't understand; I don't think I was there for that

The checking of whether or not you had enough money to buy something was initially done client-side on Isotropic, until someone was able to abuse that to open Platinum/Platinum and then it was changed to server-side. (IIRC)

It's a pretty colossal failure of the imagination to use an infinite money cheat to buy a card that gives you money.

It’s like the Dire Straits song. I never understood what advantage there was to getting chicks for free; if you were also getting money for nothing.

[Watno]

It’s like the Dire Straits song. I never understood what advantage there was to getting chicks for free; if you were also getting money for nothing.

There's a certain social stigma attached to getting chicks for money.

[LastFootnote]

It’s like the Dire Straits song. I never understood what advantage there was to getting chicks for free; if you were also getting money for nothing.

There's a certain social stigma attached to getting chicks for money.

This. But I was right there with you, Gendo. It’s a weird juxtaposition in the song.

[crj]

Given the song's premise, and indeed origin, it doesn't have to make sense. It's based on the not entirely coherent mutterings of a blue-collar guy he encountered by the televisions in a department store.

[enfynet]

It’s like the Dire Straits song. I never understood what advantage there was to getting chicks for free; if you were also getting money for nothing.

There's a certain social stigma attached to getting chicks for money.

There's usually some cost, still. It just isn't always a direct transaction.

[Chris is me]

It’s like the Dire Straits song. I never understood what advantage there was to getting chicks for free; if you were also getting money for nothing.

There's a certain social stigma attached to getting chicks for money.

There's usually some cost, still. It just isn't always a direct transaction.

This is an oddly... transactional? view of interpersonal relationships. “Let’s do the cost benefit analysis of human interaction”

[Cuzz]

It’s like the Dire Straits song. I never understood what advantage there was to getting chicks for free; if you were also getting money for nothing.

There's a certain social stigma attached to getting chicks for money.

There's usually some cost, still. It just isn't always a direct transaction.

Yes it’s kinda like that other Dire Straits song:
When you can fall for chains of silver you can fall for chains of gold
You can fall for pretty strangers and the promises they hold

[Witherweaver]

It’s like the Dire Straits song. I never understood what advantage there was to getting chicks for free; if you were also getting money for nothing.

There's a certain social stigma attached to getting chicks for money.

There's usually some cost, still. It just isn't always a direct transaction.

Yes it’s kinda like that other Dire Straits song:
When you can fall for chains of silver you can fall for chains of gold
You can fall for pretty strangers and the promises they hold

Oh, hey, The Killers covered this on an acoustic album. I didn't know it was originally a Dire Straits song.

[popsofctown]

So, did the players who used client side checks to buy Platinum for nothing also use the client side checks to buy Harem for nothing?  This has become important.  Can anyone check the councilroom logs and count the "Harem/Harem" openings?

[GendoIkari]

It’s like the Dire Straits song. I never understood what advantage there was to getting chicks for free; if you were also getting money for nothing.

There's a certain social stigma attached to getting chicks for money.

There's usually some cost, still. It just isn't always a direct transaction.

Yes it’s kinda like that other Dire Straits song:
When you can fall for chains of silver you can fall for chains of gold
You can fall for pretty strangers and the promises they hold

To keep the off-topic going, I always forget that this is a Dire Straits song, because I heard the Indigo Girls' version first. I didn't know it was a cover until a long time later.

[ackmondual]

With 5/2 or 2/5, it's a good time for Baths