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Author Topic: How do you deal with Possession?  (Read 7985 times)

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manthos88

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How do you deal with Possession?
« on: December 14, 2013, 09:52:07 am »
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How do you deal with Possession?

I just played a game where i got my engine running and i thought i was gonna win because i would play Possession more often. But My opponent used my deck totally against me! He bought Possessions via my cards and even though he was playing Possession less often than i was, his Posssession benefited him way more than my Possession was benefiting me. He double-Provinced twice via my deck, while i was only able to pick up components via my Possession, just because my deck was better! Components that HE used eventually.

So, how do you deal with Possession? You don't play engine maybe? You try to create a deck that perhaps won't benefit the enemy too much?? What can i say?? It totally turned the game upside down and i became really frustrated!
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 10:13:33 am by manthos88 »
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soulnet

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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2013, 10:09:08 am »
+5

Usually, a good rule of thumb is that if your opponent has Possession, is time to stop building, because in the best case that benefits both of you, while buying VP benefits only you. If he kept buying VP your Possessions become worse and worse, while you buying components make his Possessions become better and better.
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Awaclus

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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2013, 11:07:19 am »
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Attack cards are generally pretty strong against Possession (unless they offer you a choice).
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sudgy

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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2013, 11:11:42 am »
+1

There are generally three ways to counter it:

1. Have cards that will either still help you (VP cards) or cards that attack the other players unconditionally.  Avoid cards (or get rid of them soon enough) that the other player can use against you (Masquerade, Ambassador, TfB)

2. Outrace them.  Some strategies are fast enough for this.

3. Make your deck crap.  You need a plan for that, obviously.


I one time built a deck that, in the end, only had Bishops, King's Courts, and Possessions.  He one time KC-Possessioned me and didn't do anything all three turns.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

manthos88

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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2013, 11:37:26 am »
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2. Outrace them.  Some strategies are fast enough for this.

What do you mean by that?

3. Make your deck crap.  You need a plan for that, obviously.


I one time built a deck that, in the end, only had Bishops, King's Courts, and Possessions.  He one time KC-Possessioned me and didn't do anything all three turns.


Wowowow... wait a minute! KC-Possession results in playing 3 consecutive turns with the enemy's deck? I had no idea about that!  :D

And, by the way, what happens if i play Possession, with the enemy's Possessed hand?
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 11:39:41 am by manthos88 »
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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2013, 11:44:04 am »
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2. Outrace them.  Some strategies are fast enough for this.

What do you mean by that?
He means that you play a strategy which wins the game before your opponent's Possession is able to do much.
Quote
And, by the way, what happens if i play Possession, with the enemy's Possessed hand?
The opponent possesses you after this turn.
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Count Grishnakh

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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2013, 12:52:08 pm »
+1

There have been some great suggestions so far, I just want to add that if golem is also on the board, I like to grab as many golems as I can, a couple possessions, and minimize other action cards.

The player possessing you will not be able to resist the temptation of playing your golem which will draw one or two possessions!

I once played a game where my opponent grabbed 4 possessions and 6 alchemists.

I countered this by buying two possessions, after which I immediately started greening my deck. My opponent was completely frustrated when she was possessing hands full of green while I was possessing her more powerful deck.

I had luck on my side that game, but I ended up getting 7 out of the 8 provinces, 6 of which were obtained by possessing her.

Thus, even though she had more possessions than me, my possessions were far stronger..
It's common for possession happy players to think they can use possession to make their engine stronger.. but if you green early like other players suggest, you will leech of them and contribute little if anything to their precious engine.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 12:54:33 pm by Count Grishnakh »
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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2013, 03:14:34 pm »
+5

Generally, strategy advice shouldn't be predicated on your opponent making bad choices like playing Golem while possessing you.
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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2013, 03:20:48 pm »
+5

There are multiple paths to beating possession which I'll outline and that Sudgy started.

1.)  VP Chips.  Build an engine that relies on Monument/Goons/Bishop.  Keep in mind that your opponent can still buy VP but at least you benefit if they decide to play said cards.

2.)  Know when to green.  You can't "make your deck crap" as sudgy suggested because then your opponent just plays a normal game that happens to have a few Possessions in it.  The key here is try to get a few Provinces early before Possessions become a problem and then hit the Duchies hard.  And I mean hard.  You want to ensure that your opponent only can get Duchies and Estates.  By the point he is Possessing you, you already have a lead that he can't circumvent because you are both greening.

3.)  Fight fire with fire.  This is most common with Possession, heavy trashing and engine potential.  This becomes a race to trash down to a deck that can play multiple Possessions a turn such that it becomes pointless to build any sort of engine that provides cash and only use your opponents cash.  These are strange mirror matches that rely on getting a slim lead and then maining by trashing all your other cash.

4.)  Respect trash for benefit (TfB).  TfB becomes a liability in your deck when opponents go Possession.  Either use them earlier and then find a way to get rid of them or ignore them.  Ambassador and Masquerate are exceptionally deadly as they can gift Provinces. 
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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2013, 04:24:30 pm »
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Some additional points
- Any cards that prepare for the following turn are usually bad against possession. This is because the owner of the deck will not know whether they are playing the next hand or not, but the possessor will always know and can use this information.
- Attacks that provide income such as militia or fortune teller force the possessor to take the attack to get the income.
- Similarly bishop, monument, and goons give you vp if the possessor takes the income.
- Avoid cards that a possessor can use better than you, such as apprentice trashing a colony for 11 cards.
- Be wary of cards that can change your opponents deck, such as a possessor swindling cards into better ones.
- Deck cycling can be more important than deck income. This allows you to play possession more often without offering much value to a possessor.
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dondon151

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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2013, 05:25:43 pm »
+1

Avoid cards (or get rid of them soon enough) that the other player can use against you (Masquerade, Ambassador, TfB)

This is not useful advice. Usually if you avoid these cards, then you will lose.
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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2013, 05:37:49 pm »
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Avoid cards (or get rid of them soon enough) that the other player can use against you (Masquerade, Ambassador, TfB)

This is not useful advice. Usually if you avoid these cards, then you will lose.
This. Especially if you're trying to buy a Possession against someone who has them (especially Amb).
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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2013, 06:40:42 pm »
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How do you deal with Possession?

Once I find out, I'll tell you.
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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2013, 07:15:20 pm »
+2

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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2013, 07:27:06 pm »
+1

And, by the way, what happens if i play Possession, with the enemy's Possessed hand?

Possession is sometimes a difficult card to understand because of sloppy language.  When you play a Possession, it causes your opponent to get an extra turn.  It is your opponent's turn, and your opponent is the one who plays cards.  You, however, get to make all of his decisions during that turn.  So in this case, you do not play his Possession.  Rather, you compel him to play his Possession.  Playing that Possession does not entail any additional decisions during this turn, so you do not get to decide what he will later make you decide. 
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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2013, 08:04:28 pm »
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Avoid cards (or get rid of them soon enough) that the other player can use against you (Masquerade, Ambassador, TfB)

This is not useful advice. Usually if you avoid these cards, then you will lose.

Avoid cards (or get rid of them soon enough) that the other player can use against you (Masquerade, Ambassador, TfB)
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

Awaclus

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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2013, 08:25:29 pm »
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So in this case, you do not play his Possession.  Rather, you compel him to play his Possession.
I would rather not compel him to play his Possession.
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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2013, 09:17:23 pm »
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TfB cards cannot be used against you.  When you're Possessed, trashed cards go to your discard pile.  The only actually dangerous cards to have are Masquerade and Ambassador, because they do NOT trash - they remove cards from your deck in other ways.
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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2013, 09:30:15 pm »
+7

TfB cards cannot be used against you.  When you're Possessed, trashed cards go to your discard pile.  The only actually dangerous cards to have are Masquerade and Ambassador, because they do NOT trash - they remove cards from your deck in other ways.

TfB cards are a lot better used by your opponent than you.  Would you Apprentice your Colony?  Not usually.  But when possessing, that's a lot better.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

SirPeebles

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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2013, 10:14:09 pm »
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If your opponent is regularly playing Possession, then it can be beneficial to attack yourself.  For example, Alice possesses Bob.  On Bob's possessed turn, Alice has Bob play a Militia.  Alice then discards down to just junk and a Possession.  Now Alice is able to buy VP using Bob's deck, but Bob's ability to use Alice's deck is impaired.
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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2013, 10:14:27 pm »
+2

When you're Possessed, trashed cards go to your discard pile.  The only actually dangerous cards to have are Masquerade and Ambassador, because they do NOT trash - they remove cards from your deck in other ways.

(Also Island.)
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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2013, 10:15:25 pm »
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(also strictly speaking trashed cards don't go to your discard pile when you're Possessed, but after you're Possessed)
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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2013, 10:17:01 pm »
+1

When you're Possessed, trashed cards go to your discard pile.  The only actually dangerous cards to have are Masquerade and Ambassador, because they do NOT trash - they remove cards from your deck in other ways.

(Also Island.)

(And Spoils and Madman?)
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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2013, 08:17:27 am »
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4.)  Respect trash for benefit (TfB).  TfB becomes a liability in your deck when opponents go Possession.  Either use them earlier and then find a way to get rid of them or ignore them.  Ambassador and Masquerate are exceptionally deadly as they can gift Provinces.
If Masquerade and Ambassador are on the board you should just go for Possession yourself and hope for the best. Ignoring them does not really help against Possession on a board where Possession is a viable choice, because if that is the case, your opponent will just pass an Ambassador or a Masquerade to you.
The thing is, if these guys are on the board and Possession is viable (because there is a good enough engine going on), ignoring these might even lose you the game hard because you willingly give up their engine-building-speed-increase.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 08:20:53 am by Schlippy »
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Re: How do you deal with Possession?
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2013, 12:29:18 pm »
+2

Generally, strategy advice shouldn't be predicated on your opponent making bad choices like playing Golem while possessing you.
Come now, the Count's advice is in no way predicated on the opponent actually playing the Golem.  Golem is a great card with and against possession for all the reasons he said, although you shouldn't expect your opponent to play that badly. Plus, Golem decreases the opportunity cost of getting the potion.
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