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[AndrewisFTTW]

Arch I think my scumhunting has been pretty clear and consistent all game. I've been pushing ash's lynch hard since D2 or so.

[Jimmmmm]

What possible reason is there to hide information at this point? We need to lynch scum, period. If there's even the slightest chance that Arch is scum you owe it to us to share whatever it is you have on him.

If for some reason whomever we lynch is lynchproof or if we decide to no-lynch I don't want the relevant information known going into night. Like I said there is a narrative. I just think it is conspiracy theory garbage that is making me a little nervous.

So basically, in the event that I'm Town (I am), you're telling me just to assume that Andrew is scum?

[Jimmmmm]

I've been pushing ash's lynch hard since D2 or so.

Hmm.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I've been pushing ash's lynch hard since D2 or so.

Hmm.

What's scummier? Constantly making a case over and over again to lynch conf!scum or being completely absent and not voting at all when said conf!scum is about to be lynched? You can't seriously look back at 50 pages of arguing and say that was bussing.

[Jimmmmm]

I've been pushing ash's lynch hard since D2 or so.

Hmm.

What's scummier? Constantly making a case over and over again to lynch conf!scum or being completely absent and not voting at all when said conf!scum is about to be lynched? You can't seriously look back at 50 pages of arguing and say that was bussing.

If I'm to assume that yuma and Arch are Town, then I must conclude that it was bussing. If it was, it was an incredibly risky but, in the end, incredibly effective plan.

[yuma]

What possible reason is there to hide information at this point? We need to lynch scum, period. If there's even the slightest chance that Arch is scum you owe it to us to share whatever it is you have on him.

If for some reason whomever we lynch is lynchproof or if we decide to no-lynch I don't want the relevant information known going into night. Like I said there is a narrative. I just think it is conspiracy theory garbage that is making me a little nervous.

So basically, in the event that I'm Town (I am), you're telling me just to assume that Andrew is scum?

Unfortunately yes.... I mean I would be happy to look at any in thread evidence you have on Archetype. I have looked myself and I have found nothing that implicates him enough to make me question my current position on him...

[Jimmmmm]

I guess there's not a whole lot I can say in my defense. Objectively, it seems most likely that I am scum. Unfortunately (or otherwise), I am not.

If you think back to Super Mario Mafia, both ash and I were scum, and I did everything I could towards the end to ensure that we did not agree, so that if he was lynched it wouldn't implicate me. In the same situation in this game, I half-heartedly agreed with him. I'd like to think that if I was scum with ash, we would have been able to put ourselves in a much better position to actually win the game.

On the other hand, if Andrew is scum, they've put themselves in an excellent position to win the game.

[AndrewisFTTW]

From D4:

Archetype is town. I am very confident of that! Andrew i think is town, but I am not completely sure, that is more based on reads...

Why are you confident Arch is Town?

I'm pretty sure Andrew is scum.

Because I am. I won't say more. If you think I am town then you think Arch is town.

Regardless, unless there's an extremely good reason to do otherwise, we need to lynch Andrew Today.

Such a confident read on me on D4. Why aren't you as sure now? And you STILL haven't flavor claimed.

[Archetype]

Ok, notable things from reread:

- On Day 1, ashersky starts the Andrew wagon. His initial vote was sort of like "hey, this is a scumslip! Vote him!" Instead of, you know, an actual case. Andrew even says: "Like I've already said a few times, I'm under the impression that ash is making some sort of joke or something. I was pretty confused" But when he reaches L-1, he starts using the argument of "He's reacting scummy, so he's scum." Witherweaver is hedging the wagon the whole time before jumping on when it cools down a bit.

-

What do you guys think is more likely?

1) I'm scum and ash is scum
2) I'm scum and ash is town
3) I'm town and ash is scum
4) I'm town and ash is town

Show your work!

I proposed (1) way back and no one responded to it.  Well admittedly I didn't think it was likely, but the thought occurred to me.

!!!

- When shraeye asks whats the most scummy things regarding Andrew's lynch, he points to sudgy. Not ash.

- D2, he follows me when I post my case on ash. They continue to really get on each other. He states suspicious on ash and Jimmmmm, but his next vote is on WW. Not ash.

-Day 3 immediately goes after ashersky. Claims to have Doctored yuma and switches his vote to me later. He claimed to Roleblock TA N1 and Jimmmmm claimed to have seen Witherweaver target Andrew N2.

- On Day 4, claims some weird night action stuff. Like, he says one thought process then changes it later. Says he's "all in for ash", but then switches to Jimmmmm, but then goes back to ash.

And that's it. Man, there are a couple of things from WW and ash that make me think he could be scum, but his argument with ashersky just seems so real. And I really think Jimmmmm is Town. Ugh. I'll think about this more tommorow/reread Jimmmmm.

PPE:14

[Jimmmmm]

From D4:

Archetype is town. I am very confident of that! Andrew i think is town, but I am not completely sure, that is more based on reads...

Why are you confident Arch is Town?

I'm pretty sure Andrew is scum.

Because I am. I won't say more. If you think I am town then you think Arch is town.

Regardless, unless there's an extremely good reason to do otherwise, we need to lynch Andrew Today.

Such a confident read on me on D4. Why aren't you as sure now? And you STILL haven't flavor claimed.

I thought at that stage the night actions implicated you.

What possible good could flavour claiming do?

[yuma]

well one thing we do know is that Jimmmm is not scum with a strongman shot. If there were I think he would have shot Archetype to implicate Andrew because I was pretty serious that if Archetype died Andrew would be the lynch. So we can rule that out.

If Jimmmmm is scum what is his role? He is fake claimed as tracker. As a reminder faust was a voyeur. We haven't really seen any sort of symmetry this game (that we are aware of), so if that is true then it would be unique.

The Tracker learns who a player targeted, but not what action that player performed.
The Voyeur learns what actions were performed on a player, but not who targeted them.

Voyeur is the exact opposite of a Tracker.

One point that is making think is this:

...okay crazy idea that may have no merit at all.  Would it make sense for both Ash and Andrew to be scum and Ash is throwing Andrew under the bus?  That could throw a lot of suspicion off of him in the future.  Or, Andrew's three-scum comment could have been a real slip and this is how Ash is covering for it.  If we end up lynching Andrew, then Ash looks strong town.  If we end up not being convinced, then we're less likely to come back to thinking Andrew is scum.  Either way, it would protect one of them.

I also forgot that ashersky voted Jimmmm at one point that looks to me kinda like a scum voting a partner vote

TA is town and telling the truth.

vote: jimmmmm to have a vacation vote and because I think his reaction to TA's reveal is off.

[AndrewisFTTW]

From D4:

Archetype is town. I am very confident of that! Andrew i think is town, but I am not completely sure, that is more based on reads...

Why are you confident Arch is Town?

I'm pretty sure Andrew is scum.

Because I am. I won't say more. If you think I am town then you think Arch is town.

Regardless, unless there's an extremely good reason to do otherwise, we need to lynch Andrew Today.

Such a confident read on me on D4. Why aren't you as sure now? And you STILL haven't flavor claimed.

I thought at that stage the night actions implicated you.

What possible good could flavour claiming do?

So what changed?

And what possible harm could flavor claiming do? Why is this such a problem? I've been asking for it for a few days and still nothing.

[Jimmmmm]

From D4:

Archetype is town. I am very confident of that! Andrew i think is town, but I am not completely sure, that is more based on reads...

Why are you confident Arch is Town?

I'm pretty sure Andrew is scum.

Because I am. I won't say more. If you think I am town then you think Arch is town.

Regardless, unless there's an extremely good reason to do otherwise, we need to lynch Andrew Today.

Such a confident read on me on D4. Why aren't you as sure now? And you STILL haven't flavor claimed.

I thought at that stage the night actions implicated you.

What possible good could flavour claiming do?

So what changed?

And what possible harm could flavor claiming do? Why is this such a problem? I've been asking for it for a few days and still nothing.

You pointed out something I missed.

I have literally no idea what my flavour name is, and I don't see the point in digging through PMs to find out.

[AndrewisFTTW]

yuma I think Jimm is either actually a tracker or he's fake claiming and only claiming the obvious results from his fake claimed night actions (no result from shraeye (dead), WW targeting me (would know this from scum QT), Arch (no result from D1 targeting), and me (of course I was going to doctor Arch).

[Jimmmmm]

yuma I think Jimm is either actually a tracker or he's fake claiming

You are correct, Sir.

[yuma]

Ok.... Night2 is of interest to me.

According to claims we have the following:
Jimmm investigates WW (sees him target Andrew apparently with a redirector)
Andrew targets yuma with doctor (is apparently targeted by Andrew potential turning it into a JK)
yuma targets WW for a NightVig (should be blocked)
TA targets WW for a SK kill
Ashersky claims to target Jimmmm (but says he is blocked)

Other player actions night2 in regard to the redirected block from Andrew
xeiron is targeted by TA (so it appears he wasn't JKed)
xerxes sent a message to xeiron (wasn't JKed either)

So here is the question:

If Andrew is scum and Jimmmm is telling the truth then WW (scum) targeted Andrew (scum) and redirected his power to ash (scum) because no one else was targeted to be redirected to... unless the redirection as random... but then it would have randomly gone to ashersky...

Also if the redirection works that WW gets to pick who the power is redirected to then WW should have targeted two players, not one...

for reference:

A Redirector is a role that causes all actions taken on a particular Night by a specific player to target a specific second player instead of whatever their original target was.

So what makes more sense?

That WW, ash and Andrew all combined their powers to the ultimate goal of making ash looked blocked? WW targeted Andrew and redirected that power to ash?

Or that WW as scum redirected Andrew's town power to ash? And that Jimmmm is fake claiming a result in regard to it.

Neither make a whole lot of sense to be honest as both result in basically using up 3 or 2 of mafia's powers for an end result of ashersky being blocked. Actually the second one makes a bit more sense as it uses only 2 mafia powers and results in ashersky being JKed (I think ash might have feared being a SK target... he is generally a good vig or SK target...)

I do have a pretty major hang up about Jimmmm only seeing WW target one player though.

And I forgot about Archetype. The redirect could have gone toward archetype, so that might be a possibility...

[yuma]

but if Jimmmm is partners with WW he would know who WW redirected toward and would know that 2 players were targeted and could thus lie... so I don't know if that means anything either...

[yuma]

Flavor later.

Witherweaver has been killed! He was Rahvin, the Diplomat, a Forsaken-aligned Redirector!

Xeiron stumbles of of his tent, looking very pale and sickly. "My dagger," he mumbles. "Where is my dagger?"

Vote Count 3.0

Not Voting ( 8 ): yuma, Twistedarcher, xeiron, AndrewisFTTW, Jimmmmm, ashersky, XerxesPraelor, Archetype

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 3 ends on April 27 at 11:30 PM FT.

Also I don't know if it would have been revealed in the flavor here, but sometimes flavor indicates whether or not a player was shot multiple times or not.

Mods: would the flavor have distinguished between whether WW had been shot once at night or multiple times?

[mail-mi]

Might not get an answer, but might as well try this:

Mods: Can mafia use their powers and perform a kill on the same night? What if there is only 1 mafia left?

I cannot answer that.

Mods: would the flavor have distinguished between whether WW had been shot once at night or multiple times?

No.

[mail-mi]

“Often you don't know whether a woman is friend, enemy or lover until it is too late. Sometimes, she is all three.”
- Thomdril Merrilin

Vote Count 5.1

Jimmmmm (1): AndrewisFTTW

Not Voting (3): Jimmmmm, yuma, Archetype

With 4 alive it takes 3 to lynch.

Day 5 ends on Monday, May 12 at 11 PM FT (note the shortened deadline).

[Jimmmmm]

I do have a pretty major hang up about Jimmmm only seeing WW target one player though.

Yeah, I thought that was strange too. Apparently there are versions of Redirector which direct the action/s to a random player. If that's the case, it's highly likely to be used on a fellow scum.

[Archetype]

I do have a pretty major hang up about Jimmmm only seeing WW target one player though.

Yeah, I thought that was strange too. Apparently there are versions of Redirector which direct the action/s to a random player. If that's the case, it's highly likely to be used on a fellow scum.

That's what I thought a Redirector was. At least, that's what it's been used on Fds as.

[Jimmmmm]

I do have a pretty major hang up about Jimmmm only seeing WW target one player though.

Yeah, I thought that was strange too. Apparently there are versions of Redirector which direct the action/s to a random player. If that's the case, it's highly likely to be used on a fellow scum.

That's what I thought a Redirector was. At least, that's what it's been used on Fds as.

If that's the case it's a point in favour of Andrew being scum (for me at least), since scum can probably find more use out of using that on a partner.

[AndrewisFTTW]

yuma I think Jimm is either actually a tracker or he's fake claiming

You are correct, Sir.

Unhelpful and sarcastic posts. Sounds familiar.

[Jimmmmm]

yuma I think Jimm is either actually a tracker or he's fake claiming

You are correct, Sir.

Unhelpful and sarcastic posts. Sounds familiar.

That's funny.