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[Davio]

It's always a cantrip in that it draws you another card.

Sometimes it's a Peddler that discards a Copper (making it even better than Peddler).
Sometimes it's a Lab that discards an Estate (making it even better than Lab).
Sometimes it's a simple Village.
And sometimes it's just a Great Hall.

But it's generally always good.

[soulnet]

I have already said this somewhere else, but the good thing about Ironmonger is that it is better than Village as a Village, because it is not a Village in the first few shuffles, when being a Peddler or Lab is way better. And it is great for slogs, when it hits green a lot.

[Schlippy]

Cantrip Silver? If it hits a Copper and draws a Copper, it's providing $2 for you, but not being a cantrip on top of that. It's a Peddler in the opening, you'd get the same $ if you opened Tournament.

Well yeah, not exactly cantrip Silver, the comparison to Peddler/Tournament is better. But the tournament thing is not exactly true either, because Ironmonger can draw you a copper, then hit an estate and draw you another copper. :>

[soulnet]

Cantrip Silver? If it hits a Copper and draws a Copper, it's providing $2 for you, but not being a cantrip on top of that. It's a Peddler in the opening, you'd get the same $ if you opened Tournament.

Well yeah, not exactly cantrip Silver, the comparison to Peddler/Tournament is better. But the tournament thing is not exactly true either, because Ironmonger can draw you a copper, then hit an estate and draw you another copper. :>

The first Copper is still accounted for in the "cantrip" part, you cannot count it as an extra card and as extra +$1.

Hitting Estate is clearly great, almost as good as double-lab.

[Awaclus]

I have already said this somewhere else, but the good thing about Ironmonger is that it is better than Village as a Village, because it is not a Village in the first few shuffles, when being a Peddler or Lab is way better.

Though, the thing is, you don't need a village during the first few shuffles anyway (unless there's an edge case), and when you need a village, Village is better as a village than Ironmonger, because it's guaranteed to split the action. If you've got to use Ironmonger as a village, the fact that you can start getting them earlier than usual is just compensation for the reliability that you lose when you actually need it.

[GendoIkari]

It's always a cantrip in that it draws you another card.

Sometimes it's a Peddler that discards a Copper (making it even better than Peddler).
Sometimes it's a Lab that discards an Estate (making it even better than Lab).
Sometimes it's a simple Village.
And sometimes it's just a Great Hall.

But it's generally always good.

Man I skipped right to this page, so naturally assumed you were talking about Herald, and spent several minutes trying to figure out what sort of card interactions could possibly cause it to work the way you suggest.

[terminalCopper]

A peddler that discards a copper is like a lab (unless you prefer copper over +1$ for some reason).

Btw in which case is it just a great hall?
Even if you reveal curse, the discarding option makes it nearly as strong as a lab (unless you wanted to have that curse in hand for some reason).

[Awaclus]

A peddler that discards a copper is like a lab (unless you prefer copper over +1$ for some reason).

Btw in which case is it just a great hall?
Even if you reveal curse, the discarding option makes it nearly as strong as a lab (unless you wanted to have that curse in hand for some reason).

If you have no card on top of the deck, or you reveal an action you want to keep and can't spend the +action.

[GendoIkari]

A peddler that discards a copper is like a lab (unless you prefer copper over +1$ for some reason).

Btw in which case is it just a great hall?
Even if you reveal curse, the discarding option makes it nearly as strong as a lab (unless you wanted to have that curse in hand for some reason).

If you have no card on top of the deck, or you reveal an action you want to keep and can't spend the +action.

Dunno if I'd include the second scenario... if we did, we could of course say that Village is only a Great Hall if you don't play 2 actions (which might be a fair assessment, but doesn't fairly rate Village's power), or we could say that Peddler is just a Great Hall if it happens to give you more than you can spend that turn.

[Watno]

A peddler that discards a copper is like a lab (unless you prefer copper over +1$ for some reason).

Btw in which case is it just a great hall?
Even if you reveal curse, the discarding option makes it nearly as strong as a lab (unless you wanted to have that curse in hand for some reason).

If you reveal a Curse or (pure) Reaction card.

But don't forget it can also be a Peddler and a Lab or a Lab and a Village (or a Crossroads and a Hunting grounds).

[Awaclus]

A peddler that discards a copper is like a lab (unless you prefer copper over +1$ for some reason).

Btw in which case is it just a great hall?
Even if you reveal curse, the discarding option makes it nearly as strong as a lab (unless you wanted to have that curse in hand for some reason).

If you have no card on top of the deck, or you reveal an action you want to keep and can't spend the +action.

Dunno if I'd include the second scenario... if we did, we could of course say that Village is only a Great Hall if you don't play 2 actions (which might be a fair assessment, but doesn't fairly rate Village's power), or we could say that Peddler is just a Great Hall if it happens to give you more than you can spend that turn.

Once I opened Ironmonger/Masquerade and on turn 4, hit Masquerade with Ironmonger. Replace Ironmonger with Village and it would be an obvious misuse of the cards, but it's much less so in this situation, so I think it is more fair for Ironmonger than it is for Village. Though, depending on how you look at it, maybe it also fairly rates Village's power, because it is a reason why you wouldn't buy Village in a big money deck, so if being unfit for some strategies makes a card weaker, then Village is made weaker by the fact that you don't always connect it with two terminals. But if you only look at the strategies in which Village is actually good, then it isn't.

[terminalCopper]

A peddler that discards a copper is like a lab (unless you prefer copper over +1$ for some reason).

Btw in which case is it just a great hall?
Even if you reveal curse, the discarding option makes it nearly as strong as a lab (unless you wanted to have that curse in hand for some reason).

If you reveal a Curse or (pure) Reaction card.

A great hall does NOT reveal and (optionally) discard a curse.
I do also have some trouble to name a pure reaction card ... is it only me?

[Kirian]

A peddler that discards a copper is like a lab (unless you prefer copper over +1$ for some reason).

Btw in which case is it just a great hall?
Even if you reveal curse, the discarding option makes it nearly as strong as a lab (unless you wanted to have that curse in hand for some reason).

If you reveal a Curse or (pure) Reaction card.

A great hall does NOT reveal and (optionally) discard a curse.
I do also have some trouble to name a pure reaction card ... is it only me?

Hovel is the closest you can get.

[GendoIkari]

A peddler that discards a copper is like a lab (unless you prefer copper over +1$ for some reason).

Btw in which case is it just a great hall?
Even if you reveal curse, the discarding option makes it nearly as strong as a lab (unless you wanted to have that curse in hand for some reason).

If you reveal a Curse or (pure) Reaction card.

But don't forget it can also be a Peddler and a Lab or a Lab and a Village (or a Crossroads and a Hunting grounds).

If it reveals a curse, then it was pretty much a Laboratory, not counting edge cases where you want the Curse in hand. You'll discard it, which is usually just as good as having played a Lab to draw it.

[markusin]

A peddler that discards a copper is like a lab (unless you prefer copper over +1$ for some reason).

Btw in which case is it just a great hall?
Even if you reveal curse, the discarding option makes it nearly as strong as a lab (unless you wanted to have that curse in hand for some reason).

If you reveal a Curse or (pure) Reaction card.

But don't forget it can also be a Peddler and a Lab or a Lab and a Village (or a Crossroads and a Hunting grounds).

If it reveals a curse, then it was pretty much a Laboratory, not counting edge cases where you want the Curse in hand. You'll discard it, which is usually just as good as having played a Lab to draw it.

What's funny is that Vagrant will actually draw that curse.

[Awaclus]

A peddler that discards a copper is like a lab (unless you prefer copper over +1$ for some reason).

Btw in which case is it just a great hall?
Even if you reveal curse, the discarding option makes it nearly as strong as a lab (unless you wanted to have that curse in hand for some reason).

If you reveal a Curse or (pure) Reaction card.

But don't forget it can also be a Peddler and a Lab or a Lab and a Village (or a Crossroads and a Hunting grounds).

If it reveals a curse, then it was pretty much a Laboratory, not counting edge cases where you want the Curse in hand. You'll discard it, which is usually just as good as having played a Lab to draw it.

What's funny is that Vagrant will actually draw that curse.

What's funny is that Ironmonger does almost everything you want a Vagrant to do, and more.

[flies]

unless you want the card in hand for trashing or crossroads or dual type vp cards or s/t.  [/edge case]

[Warfreak2]

Ironmonger puts dual-type vp (or just vp) in your hand, if you want it to...

[soulnet]

Ironmonger puts dual-type vp (or just vp) in your hand, if you want it to...

I played Ironmonger+Harem+Silk Road recently and it was crazy good.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20131127/log.50ea2963e4b0429cfe091cec.1385580373890.txt

[flies]

Ironmonger puts dual-type vp (or just vp) in your hand, if you want it to...

oh, uh, yeah...

[LastFootnote]

Thread necro time.

Does anybody else see Herald's overpay as, "You want to win this split so badly that you're probably going to overpay anyway, so here's an extra treat for when you do"?

[werothegreat]

I see it as "man, you don't use this nearly as often as you do the other overpays".

[Chris is me]

Thread necro time.

Does anybody else see Herald's overpay as, "You want to win this split so badly that you're probably going to overpay anyway, so here's an extra treat for when you do"?

About 20% of the time, I see it like Inn - I really want to play a junker or a trasher once more this shuffle and I'm willing to use my Buy to accomplish that. Or maybe it's a mostly BM deck and I could get a Province if I overpay $2-3 this turn. The other 80% of the time, it's just gravy when a Herald chain is definitely the right way to go. It's a card you want for $4, more than Stonemason is a card you want for $2 or even Doctor for $3 (though I buy Doctor on 3/4 decently often).

[Robz888]

Thread necro time.

The necro-ing of this thread has caused me to notice this regrettable comment I made in 2013:

Herald is nice.

Ironmonger blows it out of the park.

Quite embarrassing. Obviously, this is not true. The reverse is closer to the truth, although still very wrong, I think.

And I was considered, like, a good player? Yikes.

[Titandrake]

Ironmonger is still a really good card. Herald is probably better if you know how to build correctly and worse if you don't.