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[yuma]

i'll take a normal slot (invented, probably an open rendition of x-shots)

[pacovf]

Oh, I mean, it's fine. One can be Marvel mafia and the other Avengers mafia, or whatever.

Actually, I've changed my mind.

My next game will be expert-level RMM, and will be Swingers themed.  (The movie, not the lifestyle.)

Cool! You haven't updated the queue about my game, though.

[ashersky]

Oh, I mean, it's fine. One can be Marvel mafia and the other Avengers mafia, or whatever.

Actually, I've changed my mind.

My next game will be expert-level RMM, and will be Swingers themed.  (The movie, not the lifestyle.)

Cool! You haven't updated the queue about my game, though.

I know.  I need to do a deep dive here to see what I've missed.  I'll get it all fixed soon.

[pacovf]

Great, thanks for taking the time to do this!

[UmbrageOfSnow]

I don't know if I should wait for Paris to finish, but if no one cares, could I be put on the Normal Queue as well?  Some kind of closed setup, but no special rules and plenty of VTs and no crazy roles.

If it's going to be a really long time, maybe I should try to run that Bastard idea I had.

On that note, if something is just kind of bastard, but actually pretty balanced and fair, is it worth trying to find a way to make it a bit more weird/bastard or just advertise it as normalish bastard/borderline bastard?  I feel like it might not be crazy enough if people want to take it super non-seriously.

[pingpongsam]

Oh, I mean, it's fine. One can be Marvel mafia and the other Avengers mafia, or whatever.

Actually, I've changed my mind.

My next game will be expert-level RMM, and will be Swingers themed.  (The movie, not the lifestyle.)

/in

[ashersky]

I don't know if I should wait for Paris to finish, but if no one cares, could I be put on the Normal Queue as well?  Some kind of closed setup, but no special rules and plenty of VTs and no crazy roles.

If it's going to be a really long time, maybe I should try to run that Bastard idea I had.

On that note, if something is just kind of bastard, but actually pretty balanced and fair, is it worth trying to find a way to make it a bit more weird/bastard or just advertise it as normalish bastard/borderline bastard?  I feel like it might not be crazy enough if people want to take it super non-seriously.

You are always better off making something not bastard.  No one likes bastard enough to make it worth modding the games, in my opinion.

[Witherweaver]

I don't know if I should wait for Paris to finish, but if no one cares, could I be put on the Normal Queue as well?  Some kind of closed setup, but no special rules and plenty of VTs and no crazy roles.

If it's going to be a really long time, maybe I should try to run that Bastard idea I had.

On that note, if something is just kind of bastard, but actually pretty balanced and fair, is it worth trying to find a way to make it a bit more weird/bastard or just advertise it as normalish bastard/borderline bastard?  I feel like it might not be crazy enough if people want to take it super non-seriously.

You are always better off making something not bastard.  No one likes bastard enough to make it worth modding the games, in my opinion.

Those bastards.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

I don't know if I should wait for Paris to finish, but if no one cares, could I be put on the Normal Queue as well?  Some kind of closed setup, but no special rules and plenty of VTs and no crazy roles.

If it's going to be a really long time, maybe I should try to run that Bastard idea I had.

On that note, if something is just kind of bastard, but actually pretty balanced and fair, is it worth trying to find a way to make it a bit more weird/bastard or just advertise it as normalish bastard/borderline bastard?  I feel like it might not be crazy enough if people want to take it super non-seriously.

You are always better off making something not bastard.  No one likes bastard enough to make it worth modding the games, in my opinion.

Those bastards.

I hate bastard actually.  I was just thinking about that idea from the Greater Idea rolls with Mail-mi.  The greater idea deck is honestly pretty bastard, and I got a neat setup idea doing that but I worry it's too jerkish, and that was Scott_Pilgrim's opinion as well.  Maybe I should go the other way and figure out a way to make it more... expected?

[yuma]

I don't know if I should wait for Paris to finish, but if no one cares, could I be put on the Normal Queue as well?  Some kind of closed setup, but no special rules and plenty of VTs and no crazy roles.

If it's going to be a really long time, maybe I should try to run that Bastard idea I had.

On that note, if something is just kind of bastard, but actually pretty balanced and fair, is it worth trying to find a way to make it a bit more weird/bastard or just advertise it as normalish bastard/borderline bastard?  I feel like it might not be crazy enough if people want to take it super non-seriously.

You are always better off making something not bastard.  No one likes bastard enough to make it worth modding the games, in my opinion.

Those bastards.

I hate bastard actually.  I was just thinking about that idea from the Greater Idea rolls with Mail-mi.  The greater idea deck is honestly pretty bastard, and I got a neat setup idea doing that but I worry it's too jerkish, and that was Scott_Pilgrim's opinion as well.  Maybe I should go the other way and figure out a way to make it more... expected?

If you wanted to try something weird, but probably considered normal (I don't know maybe people would think it is bastard?) would be the setup used by Town of Salem, the quick (like 10 minutes) mafia mini-game. I would be interested to see the setup they used implemented in a longer f.ds style mafia game. It is mostly open, I can't remember exactly how the setups work, but like 13 out of the 15 roles are set and the other two are random, or something similar to that. There are Jesters, SK, Mafia and sometimes Arsonists along with a role that can speak to the dead... But I used to be semi addicted to the mini-game format and think it could be put into play here...

[UmbrageOfSnow]

I hate town of Salem but was thinking of stealing some of those roles, I think creative use of QTs and sufficient mod effort could make most of them work.

But I meant I had a specific setup in mind.  To fill you in: Paris Mafia exists because Mail-Mi was going to run Greater Idea and I was going to co-mod, then it seemed like a lot of people didn't want to do Greater Idea and then Mail-mi had to go away for a bit, so he told me to run something, Paris was my something weird.  But in pre-rolling some Greater Idea setups, I had some inspiration for a designed setup using roles from the Greater Idea deck which I almost ran, but Scott and I both agreed it was too Bastard to count as a Normal.  Which is true of a lot of legitimately rolled Greater Ideas setups IMO.

So I think this idea has roughly even chances for any faction to win, but is too weird to really be accepted as a normal game, too balanced to really be Bastard, and too simple to be Role Madness.  So it doesn't really fit anywhere, but I like the idea.  The reason I was leaning Bastard is I could see some people hating it once all is revealed, but maybe it could be run toned down as normal, with increased complexity as RMM, or more jerkily as Bastard.  Honestly not sure.  I should probably talk about it to someone else for a third opinion at some point.

I have lots of weird ideas though!

[pacovf]

There are plenty of tame RMMs here. You don't need to make it extra crazy to qualify, it just has to be balanced enough, and not contain roles that would be considered bastard.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Well I guess sign me up for both a Normal and an RMM when you get around to updating this thing Ash.  Assuming signing up for both of those around now wouldn't mean they'd both end up running at the same time, because that might be a bit much.

I'll just turn it into a less exciting RMM, or probably come up with 3 other RMM ideas between now and then...

[silverspawn]

Speaking of RMM's, I've been trying to get the 'there is a universal currency, each player at any point has some amount of $ (which is unknown to him), each player can request (almost) any power, and if he has enough $, it happens, if not, nothing happens' idea to work by making a sheet of all powers, but it's impossible... there are so many, and some actions scale depending on whether or not not they're self-targeted, or depending on alignment or ingame day, and some don't, etc.

There is a way to make it work, which is by having me decide how much something costs upon submission, the question is just is that something players would want to play, as there is an element of mod capriciousness (I had to look that word up), which is generally considered bastard. I would try to keep it at a minimum, by a) setting some guidelines beforehand, b) writing down every action I price and comparing them, and c) hiding players currency from myself, so that I never know whether or not it's affordable -- but I can't eliminate it completely.

[gkrieg13]

Speaking of RMM's, I've been trying to get the 'there is a universal currency, each player at any point has some amount of $ (which is unknown to him), each player can request (almost) any power, and if he has enough $, it happens, if not, nothing happens' idea to work by making a sheet of all powers, but it's impossible... there are so many, and some actions scale depending on whether or not not they're self-targeted, or depending on alignment or ingame day, and some don't, etc.

There is a way to make it work, which is by having me decide how much something costs upon submission, the question is just is that something players would want to play, as there is an element of mod capriciousness (I had to look that word up), which is generally considered bastard. I would try to keep it at a minimum, by a) setting some guidelines beforehand, b) writing down every action I price and comparing them, and c) hiding players currency from myself, so that I never know whether or not it's affordable -- but I can't eliminate it completely.

Having a co-mod would help this a lot I feel

[faust]

Well, I don't know, this still feels pretty bastardy to me. The least you would have to do is make all costs public knowledge, and that would mean letting people know which powers were requested. Also, I don't see this being non-broken with clever coordination. It's either broken or people have so little $ that they can't do anything and it's closer to a vanilla game, both of which is no fun.

[yuma]

Speaking of RMM's, I've been trying to get the 'there is a universal currency, each player at any point has some amount of $ (which is unknown to him), each player can request (almost) any power, and if he has enough $, it happens, if not, nothing happens' idea to work by making a sheet of all powers, but it's impossible... there are so many, and some actions scale depending on whether or not not they're self-targeted, or depending on alignment or ingame day, and some don't, etc.

There is a way to make it work, which is by having me decide how much something costs upon submission, the question is just is that something players would want to play, as there is an element of mod capriciousness (I had to look that word up), which is generally considered bastard. I would try to keep it at a minimum, by a) setting some guidelines beforehand, b) writing down every action I price and comparing them, and c) hiding players currency from myself, so that I never know whether or not it's affordable -- but I can't eliminate it completely.

Not sure if you have checked out Robz's second game... Bankers Beware it was normal at that time because we hadn't established good rules for what was normal and what wasn't. But it had kinda a similar mechanic where players were given what amounted to money that could be used to move on a virtual game board along and find roles that were hidden in this virtual bank. It was pretty complex and totally swingy and I am pretty sure scum won with some controversy and it was absolutely perfect for RMM.

So check it out if you haven't. I think the money paying mechanic in the middle of the game could certainly work...

[silverspawn]

Well, I don't know, this still feels pretty bastardy to me. The least you would have to do is make all costs public knowledge, and that would mean letting people know which powers were requested. Also, I don't see this being non-broken with clever coordination. It's either broken or people have so little $ that they can't do anything and it's closer to a vanilla game, both of which is no fun.

I can't promise that it won't be broken, but the amounts of $ will be drastically different for all players (I'll determine a set of (start capital + income) for town and one for scum and then randomly distribute them within each faction), so it's very hard to make a grand plan work. But coordination would certainly be super important, that's kind of the point.

Not sure if you have checked out Robz's second game... Bankers Beware it was normal at that time because we hadn't established good rules for what was normal and what wasn't. But it had kinda a similar mechanic where players were given what amounted to money that could be used to move on a virtual game board along and find roles that were hidden in this virtual bank. It was pretty complex and totally swingy and I am pretty sure scum won with some controversy and it was absolutely perfect for RMM.

So check it out if you haven't. I think the money paying mechanic in the middle of the game could certainly work...

I have looked into it, but not in detail. Buying was more restricted in that game from what I understood, so it's still pretty different.

[yuma]

Right, it doesn't need to be super similar at all, mostly I meant the spreadsheet tracking would be similar and you might want to implement some of the things he used to keep track of game state, I can't really remember specifics.

I would guess that game was the most complex that we have seen on this site in terms of what the mod needed to keep track of. Maybe Dice Mafia compares?

[silverspawn]

The least you would have to do is make all costs public knowledge

Well, no. It will/would not be public knowledge until after the game.

Right, it doesn't need to be super similar at all, mostly I meant the spreadsheet tracking would be similar and you might want to implement some of the things he used to keep track of game state, I can't really remember specifics.

I would guess that game was the most complex that we have seen on this site in terms of what the mod needed to keep track of. Maybe Dice Mafia compares?

I don't doubt it.

[EFHW]

Seeing as yuma is back, this is a good time to put me on the queue for Harry Potter II: JK++!

Bump for asherksy - can you add me to the queue?

[ashersky]

I plan to fully update on Monday.

[faust]

Somebody open a game already!

[ashersky]

This thread will be unstickied soon.

Please tag the Hub, as well as make all further requests there.

This thread will not be updated, so please check the hub for the most up-to-date listing.  If you see an error there, please report it.

[pingpongsam]

I thought Dice Mafia was exceptionally well designed and implemented. I would be interested in running the exact same setup again despite the fact some roles were unique and that ultimately made the game something it can't be in repeat.