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Author Topic: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards  (Read 7919 times)

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NoMoreFun

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Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« on: October 11, 2013, 03:35:52 am »
+2

Your friends are insistent on playing a game of Dominion, so you go to fetch it from your cupboard. Oh no; the box containing your base treasure and victory cards (including platinum and colony) has disappeared. You still have 6 premade starter decks (7 coppers, 3 Shelters), and all of the kingdom cards in other boxes. Curses, Potions and the Dark Ages specific cards are still available. You still want to play Dominion; can you make a fun kingdom without the normal base cards?

The following cards are automatically disqualified for mentioning cards that aren't available:
No Estates: Baron, Followers, Hunting Grounds
No Duchies: Duke, Tournament, Transmute, Count, Duchess
No gainable Copper: Mountebank, Noble Brigand, Cache, Ill Gotten Gains, Beggar
No Silver: Bureaucrat, Trading Post, Explorer, JOAT, Trader, Embassy, Squire, Feodum, Masterpiece, Governor
No Gold: Treasure Map, Hoard, Fool's Gold, Tunnel, Market Square, Sir Vander, Soothsayer
(A card in the above list may not be allowed for multiple reasons, eg all 3 of the cards that mention Provinces)

Cards like Rebuild and Mine would be a hard sell but they are technically allowed.

Other than the fact that there are no base cards, the rules are exactly the same. However you don't have to include a Dark Ages card to start with Shelters.

Let's see if there's still fun to be had.
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ftl

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2013, 03:54:38 am »
+1

Well, presumably you want some VP. So maybe Fairgrounds and Gardens. Other than that, pick a random 8. Make sure you have at least one one terminal silver costing below $5. Maybe make sure there is at least one money-generating card which also gives +action, or villages so you can play village/terminal silver/terminal silver.  With those, you'll be able to get a reasonable, albeit weird, game - there's guaranteed to be a path to build up your deck, though the buildup is going to be different and the target is different.  You can still have all the regular engines and rushes, just not the BM strategies; as long as there is a way to build up to an engine, you'll have a reasonable game. There might even be BM-like strategies which use cantrip money and terminal silvers and Kingdom treasures instead of Silver/Gold.

If you're open to the possibility of playing with more than 10 kingdom cards (since you're missing the base cards!) just include Fairgrounds/Gardens/Great Hall in each game, to replace Province/Duchy/Estate. Include, say, Bank, and Royal Seal to replace Gold/Silver or something.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2013, 04:03:54 am »
+1

Nice suggestions ftl, but would that be enough to avoid having people think "I'd buy a Silver here, but...".
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SCSN

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2013, 04:16:20 am »
+4

Black Market, Forager, Menagerie, Village, Armory, Monument, Baker, Bazaar, Market, Fairgrounds (start with Shelters)
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 04:18:38 am by SheCantSayNo »
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hsiale

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2013, 04:44:18 am »
+4

Chapel (or Steward, trashing slower but useful after you trash down)
Goons, Village
Baker, Market, Conspirator
Bishop and Fortress
Scrying Pool
Monument
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thespaceinvader

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2013, 06:03:46 am »
0

I'm pretty sure that's a game I'd normally play without ever touching non-Kingdom cards, so, I think it works.  Steward rather than chapel, for preference, or you're going to struggle getting the economy jumping.  It could also probably do with a bit more draw other than Scrying Pool.
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SCSN

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2013, 06:15:37 am »
0

It could also probably do with a bit more draw other than Scrying Pool.

I'm always pining for more draw when playing an action-only Scrying Pool deck.
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Awaclus

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2013, 06:41:20 am »
+8

I think this is an unfair setup because the player who goes first will always lose the game, three or more piles being empty when his turn ends.
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Warfreak2

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2013, 06:59:41 am »
0

Not if he can buy a Great Hall to win by 1.
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2013, 08:18:48 am »
+1

But the piles aren't empty, they just aren't in the supply.
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pingpongsam

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2013, 08:52:02 am »
0

I think this is an unfair setup because the player who goes first will always lose the game, three or more piles being empty when his turn ends.

Not totally correct. It can be unfair for the 2nd player if there is a VP card such as Gardens on the board and Player 1 opens with a 4 copper hand.
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BadAssMutha

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2013, 10:28:46 am »
0

I think Goons might play a bit differently in this setup, since there's no $0 cards to use all the +buys for VP (besides curses). Still, a viable alternative to actual VP cards.
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Awaclus

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2013, 11:15:03 am »
0

I think Goons might play a bit differently in this setup, since there's no $0 cards to use all the +buys for VP (besides curses). Still, a viable alternative to actual VP cards.
Though you don't want to buy Copper anyway unless you have multiple Goons.
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Polk5440

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2013, 11:47:54 am »
0

How about this? It would be a quick, but fun, game.

Vineyard
Candlestick Maker
Fishing Village
Scheme
Steward
Procession
Marauder
Festival
Library
Goons

I am pretty sure that I would never buy Silver or Gold. I am less sure about never wanting to buy Copper with Goons, but I suspect Ruins/Curses are better anyway for mega Goons and piling out unless you are behind. Also not sure about never wanting Provinces, Duchies, or Estates.
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Mr Anderson

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2013, 11:51:00 am »
0

I think Goons might play a bit differently in this setup, since there's no $0 cards to use all the +buys for VP (besides curses). Still, a viable alternative to actual VP cards.

With Trader and no Cursers, Goons would be awesome (a source of infinite VP), as you cannot gain Silver. Too bad Trader is excluded.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 11:52:53 am by Mr Anderson »
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popsofctown

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2013, 01:56:07 pm »
0

Black Market, Forager, Menagerie, Village, Armory, Monument, Baker, Bazaar, Market, Fairgrounds (start with Shelters)
This is one of those kingdoms where even if the base cards were available you wouldn't want any
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cluckyb

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2013, 02:01:20 pm »
0

How about this? It would be a quick, but fun, game.

Vineyard
Candlestick Maker
Fishing Village
Scheme
Steward
Procession
Marauder
Festival
Library
Goons

I am pretty sure that I would never buy Silver or Gold. I am less sure about never wanting to buy Copper with Goons, but I suspect Ruins/Curses are better anyway for mega Goons and piling out unless you are behind. Also not sure about never wanting Provinces, Duchies, or Estates.

are Potions allowed? I would think you'd keep them in the base card box... so Vineyards probably isn't the best choice as they are really hard to gain.

(challenge: how do you gain a Vineyards in a kingdom without potion cards)
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GeoLib

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2013, 02:10:45 pm »
+4

(challenge: how do you gain a Vineyards in a kingdom without potion cards)

Trash a squire for scrying pool and remodel it into a vineyards
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cluckyb

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2013, 02:20:48 pm »
0

(challenge: how do you gain a Vineyards in a kingdom without potion cards)

Trash a squire for scrying pool and remodel it into a vineyards

Correct although Be sure to either use stonecutter instead of remodel or have both Familiar and Scrying pool sitting around so you can use Jester/Ambassador to get more potion cards in the game so that you can get all 12 vineyards in a 3-4 player game
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Polk5440

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2013, 02:49:51 pm »
0

How about this? It would be a quick, but fun, game.

Vineyard
Candlestick Maker
Fishing Village
Scheme
Steward
Procession
Marauder
Festival
Library
Goons

I am pretty sure that I would never buy Silver or Gold. I am less sure about never wanting to buy Copper with Goons, but I suspect Ruins/Curses are better anyway for mega Goons and piling out unless you are behind. Also not sure about never wanting Provinces, Duchies, or Estates.

are Potions allowed?

Yes.

Your friends are insistent on playing a game of Dominion, so you go to fetch it from your cupboard. Oh no; the box containing your base treasure and victory cards (including platinum and colony) has disappeared. You still have 6 premade starter decks (7 coppers, 3 Shelters), and all of the kingdom cards in other boxes. Curses, Potions and the Dark Ages specific cards are still available. You still want to play Dominion; can you make a fun kingdom without the normal base cards?
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eHalcyon

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2013, 03:49:28 pm »
0

(challenge: how do you gain a Vineyards in a kingdom without potion cards)

Trash a squire for scrying pool and remodel it into a vineyards

Correct although Be sure to either use stonecutter instead of remodel or have both Familiar and Scrying pool sitting around so you can use Jester/Ambassador to get more potion cards in the game so that you can get all 12 vineyards in a 3-4 player game

Stonemason*
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dondon151

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2013, 03:54:21 am »
+1

Ambassador
Workshop
Silk Road
Witch
Torturer
Worker's Village
Farming Village
Rogue
Knights
Duke

Oh, wait, you said fun.
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Warfreak2

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2013, 05:46:45 am »
0

Knights aren't allowed because when you trash Sir Vander, you gain a Gold. Duke isn't allowed because it's worth 1VP per Duchy in your deck.
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dondon151

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2013, 06:37:00 am »
0

Duke isn't allowed because it's worth 1VP per Duchy in your deck.

That's the point. The Dukes aren't worth anything unless you get them to power up your Silk Roads.
(And I suppose replace Knights with Saboteur.)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 06:38:44 am by dondon151 »
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Warfreak2

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Re: Challenge: Design a Kingdom that doesn't need the base cards
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2013, 07:53:04 am »
0

The following cards are automatically disqualified for mentioning cards that aren't available:
[...]
No Duchies: Duke, [...]
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