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Author Topic: Base set without virtual $ and +buy  (Read 2954 times)

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NoMoreFun

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Base set without virtual $ and +buy
« on: October 11, 2013, 02:16:24 am »
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These are the cards that give virtual $ and or +buy in the Base Set:
Chancellor
Woodcutter
Militia
Moneylender
Market
Festival
Council Room

I wonder if it would have been possible to swap them around with later cards to make for an even simpler base game (In terms of mechanics). It would have been cool to have a base set that really emphasised Treasures as the source for $, and it seems to have cards that play into that perception (Adventurer, Mine, Bureaucrat). Also a stricter rule of "you may only buy one card" (in the base set) would have emphasised the need to transition to greening in the basic rules.

So what cards would best replace them? I think Spoils are simple enough to include in the base set.
Chancellor: A card that speeds up cycling, like Cartographer.
Woodcutter: Explorer, or a simpler version that's just "Gain a Silver in Hand" for $4 covers the money+gain niche.
Militia: Ghost Ship and Torturer are too brutal for the base set. How about a horse traders variant: "Gain a spoils in hand. Each player (including you) discards down to 3 cards in hand". Too good for $4?
Moneylender: "You may trash a copper. If you do, gain a Spoils in hand"
Market: To cover the "peddler variant": "+1 Card, +1 Action, Each player (including you) gains a copper. Put yours in your hand". Probably a $4 card.
Festival: "+2 Actions, gain a Spoils on top of your deck"

And then
Replace Council Room with Soothsayer, Replace Witch with Altar, Make Adventurer cost $5, replace Feast with Coppersmith.

There's the base set as I would have had it.

PS: There's enough room for Spoils in the base set. The base set has 7 blank cards and placeholders for the base cards.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 02:23:13 am by NoMoreFun »
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Mr Anderson

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Re: Base set without virtual $ and +buy
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2013, 12:03:54 pm »
+4

PS: There's enough room for Spoils in the base set. The base set has 7 blank cards and placeholders for the base cards.

No, there is not. 7 blanks + Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse placeholders = 14, but there are 15 Spoils. However for people only playing 2 Player games, less Spoils would be fine as well.

Interesting idea, but in my opinion, Spoils are more complicated for beginners than virtual coin (you will keep Thief, an additional pile of One-Shot money which I am quite sure beginners will basically use as virtual coin. Also, just replacing Virtual Coins with Spoils does not really change anything, I think. And +buy is really important to make rather easy but still powerful Engines viable in the base set. I also do not like that self-junking Market.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Base set without virtual $ and +buy
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2013, 04:51:27 am »
+3

PS: There's enough room for Spoils in the base set. The base set has 7 blank cards and placeholders for the base cards.

No, there is not. 7 blanks + Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse placeholders = 14, but there are 15 Spoils. However for people only playing 2 Player games, less Spoils would be fine as well.

Interesting idea, but in my opinion, Spoils are more complicated for beginners than virtual coin (you will keep Thief, an additional pile of One-Shot money which I am quite sure beginners will basically use as virtual coin. Also, just replacing Virtual Coins with Spoils does not really change anything, I think. And +buy is really important to make rather easy but still powerful Engines viable in the base set. I also do not like that self-junking Market.

The number of Spoils was made so that there'd be 500 cards in the dark ages box. 14 Spoils would be adequate.

Also:

"Chancellor"
Action - $3
Put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile, reveal up to 2 Coppers from it, and put them into your hand.

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SirPeebles

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Re: Base set without virtual $ and +buy
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2013, 12:07:32 pm »
+2

It was important to introduce a variety of mechanics in the base set so that later rule books do not need to describe them each time a set wants to use them.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Base set without virtual $ and +buy
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2014, 08:03:39 am »
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It was important to introduce a variety of mechanics in the base set so that later rule books do not need to describe them each time a set wants to use them.

What if only one card had each mechanic then? Woodcutter could be "the action that gives you money/the +buy card" instead of boring.

 I just love the idea of the base set looking like it contains every possible simple card. People would cry foul at the idea of both virtual money and other complex effects, then cards like swindler would come out to everyone's surprise.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Base set without virtual $ and +buy
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2014, 09:12:46 pm »
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I like the base set having blanks.  Stuff happens to physical cards.  Blanks are a good idea.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Base set without virtual $ and +buy
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2014, 09:47:25 pm »
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I like the base set having blanks.  Stuff happens to physical cards.  Blanks are a good idea.

Would you buy a set of blanks? Were you upset when dark ages, cornucopia and.alchemy had none? I prefer cards, personally.
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soulnet

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Re: Base set without virtual $ and +buy
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2014, 10:14:19 pm »
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Would you buy a set of blanks? Were you upset when dark ages, cornucopia and.alchemy had none? I prefer cards, personally.

Not the same. None of those are stand-alones, so you can trust people has blanks from Dominion/Intrigue/Base Cards (ps, I do not know if Base Cards has blanks, I am assuming because you did not mention it).
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LastFootnote

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Re: Base set without virtual $ and +buy
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2014, 10:18:41 pm »
+3

I like the base set having blanks.  Stuff happens to physical cards.  Blanks are a good idea.

Would you buy a set of blanks? Were you upset when dark ages, cornucopia and.alchemy had none? I prefer cards, personally.

I have bought blanks, yes. That being said, I'd prefer the Base Set to have Dungeon instead. There's just so few good ways to fight Curses in it.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Base set without virtual $ and +buy
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2014, 05:34:51 am »
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Would you buy a set of blanks? Were you upset when dark ages, cornucopia and.alchemy had none? I prefer cards, personally.

Not the same. None of those are stand-alones, so you can trust people has blanks from Dominion/Intrigue/Base Cards (ps, I do not know if Base Cards has blanks, I am assuming because you did not mention it).

Base cards has a single blank card.
Also the Base set, in addition to blanks, contains 7 randomiser cards for base cards which serve no purpose.

I'd prefer the Base Set to have Dungeon instead. There's just so few good ways to fight Curses in it.

I'd prefer it had Refurbish or Gambler. Just because Donald X came up with the game and the rules doesn't mean his card ideas are any better than yours or anyone elses.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Base set without virtual $ and +buy
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2014, 10:49:20 am »
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I'd prefer the Base Set to have Dungeon instead. There's just so few good ways to fight Curses in it.

I'd prefer it had Refurbish or Gambler. Just because Donald X came up with the game and the rules doesn't mean his card ideas are any better than yours or anyone elses.

Well, he did have a big head start on designing cards. That aside, Gambler is good at fighting Curses under the same circumstances that Chancellor-BM gets all 8 Provinces in 11 turns: when you're incredibly lucky. You might trash a few, but even a bunch of Gamblers probably aren't going to completely clean your deck. Refurbish needs more testing before I can even say it's a good card at all, but yeah, it could be a good Curse trasher as long as you don't mind a lot of Silver in your deck. It's certainly not too complex for the Base Set. It steps on Mine's toes a bit, but probably not too much.

The best Curse trashers in my set are probably Dignitary and Committee? But those are both easily too complex for the Base Set. I like Dungeon's simplicity, although it is a bit similar to Masquerade.
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