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Author Topic: Most instructive cards  (Read 12714 times)

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Davio

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Re: Most instructive cards
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2013, 04:26:16 am »
+5

KC/TR/Pr + Duration cards: Sometimes the author doesn't even know the rules.

Ironworks/Great Hall/Trader: Sometimes Dominion can be quite complex.
First you gain a card, then you go back in time and would-gain that card, that's odd as you can't would-gain without a gain, but the would-gain causes the gain to no longer be a gain. Get it?
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Re: Most instructive cards
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2013, 05:38:00 am »
+2

Steward, Jack : Cards with weak effects but fitting multiple roles can be very strong.
I read this and thought: What could a Hollywood actor teach us about Dominion?

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Eran of Arcadia

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Re: Most instructive cards
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2013, 09:33:16 am »
+1

Since the first set I played with was Seaside, for me it was Salvager that taught me (at least within a Dominion context) to get over my pack rat tendencies and actually get rid of stuff. Once I could handle trashing cards for benefit, I was able to move on to trashing cards when it did not give me a direct bonus.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Most instructive cards
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2013, 11:43:59 am »
+6

Ironworks/Great Hall/Trader: Sometimes Dominion can be quite complex.
First you gain a card, then you go back in time and would-gain that card, that's odd as you can't would-gain without a gain, but the would-gain causes the gain to no longer be a gain. Get it?

I'm oddly proud that I was the one who originally asked this rules question, thereby sparking the whole "blue dog" line of gags.
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markusin

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Re: Most instructive cards
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2013, 12:15:26 pm »
+3

Moneylender, anyone?

When I first started playing Dominion, I would never use Moneylender because I didn't want to lose my Coppers for a short term boost. I hadn't yet occurred to me that, when you take into account the -1$ from trashing a Copper, Moneylender only gives you as much as Silver does, but costs an action.

Once you realize that, you think "Wait then, why would anyone ever get this card, unless...unless trashing Copper is a GOOD THING." Moneylender hints to the new player that even Copper is a junk card, much more so that Chapel does. If Copper is a card you don't want in your deck, then what does that mean for Estate and Curse?

Oh, if only I had caught on to that sooner.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Most instructive cards
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2013, 04:07:02 pm »
+1

Witch: Cursing attacks are exceptionally strong.

I learned this in my very first game of Dominion.

Edit: so okay, to not be glib about it, that first game taught me, or rather planted the seed of the idea, that you can't really choose a "play style" for yourself, you have to be willing to constantly adapt to what's available in the kingdom and what your opponents do.

How can you learn this in your first game?  I mean, cursing is exceptionally strong relative to what?
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Jean-Michel

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Re: Most instructive cards
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2013, 04:51:34 pm »
+1

Laboratory, which might sound surprising. At first I thought it was too highly priced for its benefit. I used to compare it to Village and Smithy. Village gives +1 Action more and +1 Card less compared to Lab. How could Lab cost $2 more than it? I thought 1 card couldn't make that much difference. Smithy is also cheaper than Lab and still draws more than Lab. When I actually tried buying Labs I finally understood its strength. Lab is chainable and reliable. Non-terminal draw is good.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Most instructive cards
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2013, 06:02:05 pm »
0

Laboratory, which might sound surprising. At first I thought it was too highly priced for its benefit. I used to compare it to Village and Smithy. Village gives +1 Action more and +1 Card less compared to Lab. How could Lab cost $2 more than it? I thought 1 card couldn't make that much difference. Smithy is also cheaper than Lab and still draws more than Lab. When I actually tried buying Labs I finally understood its strength. Lab is chainable and reliable. Non-terminal draw is good.

I definitely remember concluding that Village was better than Lab.
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Re: Most instructive cards
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2013, 07:27:56 pm »
+2

Laboratory, which might sound surprising. At first I thought it was too highly priced for its benefit. I used to compare it to Village and Smithy. Village gives +1 Action more and +1 Card less compared to Lab. How could Lab cost $2 more than it? I thought 1 card couldn't make that much difference. Smithy is also cheaper than Lab and still draws more than Lab. When I actually tried buying Labs I finally understood its strength. Lab is chainable and reliable. Non-terminal draw is good.

I definitely remember concluding that Village was better than Lab.
I remember thinking "Lab? That's so overpriced! It's just a reverse Village, why can't it be 3 too?"
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Most instructive cards
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2013, 07:29:04 pm »
0

The first action card I bought in my first game was a witch.
My favorite victory was when I beat my brother and his friend in an Alchemy game with Familiar.
Now, most of the people I play with veto curse-givers. I realize the importance (particularly for beginners) of learning how to build a good deck without having to worry about attacks--but there's nothing I like better than handing out the curses. ;D

KingZog3

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Re: Most instructive cards
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2013, 08:58:17 pm »
+1

Laboratory, which might sound surprising. At first I thought it was too highly priced for its benefit. I used to compare it to Village and Smithy. Village gives +1 Action more and +1 Card less compared to Lab. How could Lab cost $2 more than it? I thought 1 card couldn't make that much difference. Smithy is also cheaper than Lab and still draws more than Lab. When I actually tried buying Labs I finally understood its strength. Lab is chainable and reliable. Non-terminal draw is good.

I definitely remember concluding that Village was better than Lab.
I remember thinking "Lab? That's so overpriced! It's just a reverse Village, why can't it be 3 too?"
I feel so much better now that I know this wasn't just me.
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Re: Most instructive cards
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2013, 04:00:22 am »
0

Laboratory, which might sound surprising. At first I thought it was too highly priced for its benefit. I used to compare it to Village and Smithy. Village gives +1 Action more and +1 Card less compared to Lab. How could Lab cost $2 more than it? I thought 1 card couldn't make that much difference. Smithy is also cheaper than Lab and still draws more than Lab. When I actually tried buying Labs I finally understood its strength. Lab is chainable and reliable. Non-terminal draw is good.
When I was a newbie (still not familiar with all of the cards, and I didn't know that Lab existed), I played a game with Village and went full village idiot. That game made me think that it would be pretty cool if there was a card that had +2 cards, +1 action since I didn't get to use most of the actions I had and I wasn't drawing enough cards. I was surprised when I found out the card actually did exist, but I wasn't surprised when I noticed it was a $5 card.
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Re: Most instructive cards
« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2013, 06:35:49 am »
+4

I bought tons of Alchemists in my first Alchemy game.
In that game i learned i hate Possession.
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Re: Most instructive cards
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2013, 10:10:14 am »
+2

Loan.

I remember when I first saw this card, I thought "who the hell would ever want to use that?"  Up to that point, I could see the use of pretty much every other card, but Loan just boggled my mind.  It was only once I realized that trashing simply for the sake of trashing was a good thing, and that Copper was actually a shitty card, that I started to appreciate Loan.  It's still a weak card, but it has its place.
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KingZog3

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Re: Most instructive cards
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2013, 11:54:08 am »
0

Loan.

I remember when I first saw this card, I thought "who the hell would ever want to use that?"  Up to that point, I could see the use of pretty much every other card, but Loan just boggled my mind.  It was only once I realized that trashing simply for the sake of trashing was a good thing, and that Copper was actually a shitty card, that I started to appreciate Loan.  It's still a weak card, but it has its place.

I had similar feelings, but I've been burned so many times by Loan that I can't stand it.
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markusin

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Re: Most instructive cards
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2013, 12:01:28 pm »
0

Loan.

I remember when I first saw this card, I thought "who the hell would ever want to use that?"  Up to that point, I could see the use of pretty much every other card, but Loan just boggled my mind.  It was only once I realized that trashing simply for the sake of trashing was a good thing, and that Copper was actually a shitty card, that I started to appreciate Loan.  It's still a weak card, but it has its place.

I had similar feelings, but I've been burned so many times by Loan that I can't stand it.
There seems to be a pattern here. If new players don't understand why you'd ever want to get a certain card, chances are that card is terribly weak.

Biggest problem with loan is that it doesn't trash your Estates. Unless you welcome Estates in your deck (Baron, crossroads,etc.), this makes it a pretty weak trasher even when its at its best.
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liopoil

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Re: Most instructive cards
« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2013, 12:04:08 pm »
+3

There seems to be a pattern here. If new players don't understand why you'd ever want to get a certain card, chances are that card is terribly weak.
chapel?
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markusin

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Re: Most instructive cards
« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2013, 12:30:53 pm »
0

There seems to be a pattern here. If new players don't understand why you'd ever want to get a certain card, chances are that card is terribly weak.
chapel?
Meh, there's a subtle difference with Chapel. Players THINK they know why you'd get Chapel: To trash curses from the Witch.

I'm sure there's a big counter-example to my statement that I'm not thinking of though.
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michaeljb

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Re: Most instructive cards
« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2013, 04:08:27 pm »
+1

There seems to be a pattern here. If new players don't understand why you'd ever want to get a certain card, chances are that card is terribly weak.
chapel?
Meh, there's a subtle difference with Chapel. Players THINK they know why you'd get Chapel: To trash curses from the Witch.

I'm sure there's a big counter-example to my statement that I'm not thinking of though.

Chancellor! And the reason they don't see coming is you're doing Dominion puzzles.
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markusin

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Re: Most instructive cards
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2013, 11:43:42 pm »
+2

There seems to be a pattern here. If new players don't understand why you'd ever want to get a certain card, chances are that card is terribly weak.
chapel?
Meh, there's a subtle difference with Chapel. Players THINK they know why you'd get Chapel: To trash curses from the Witch.

I'm sure there's a big counter-example to my statement that I'm not thinking of though.

Chancellor! And the reason they don't see coming is you're doing Dominion puzzles.
Dominion puzzles have proved that Chancellor is in fact the best card, in disguise.
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Re: Most instructive cards
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2013, 06:22:25 pm »
0

Chancellor: At first it taught me that faster deck cycling really makes a huge difference in the beginning. Then it taught me that (often) it is not worth it on a terminal because it either leads to collision or just does not allow you to play it as often as less potent cyclers that give you +1 action.
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Re: Most instructive cards
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2013, 12:33:23 am »
+1

Witch: Cursing attacks are exceptionally strong.

I learned this in my very first game of Dominion.

Edit: so okay, to not be glib about it, that first game taught me, or rather planted the seed of the idea, that you can't really choose a "play style" for yourself, you have to be willing to constantly adapt to what's available in the kingdom and what your opponents do.

How can you learn this in your first game?  I mean, cursing is exceptionally strong relative to what?

One player buys Witch.
The other player does not buy Witch.

The player who buys Witch wins.
The other player learns that cursing is exceptionally strong relative to their crappy non-Witch strategy.
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