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[Grujah]

Few words from me:

1. Sudgers was an AWESOME co-moderator. He has probably done more work than I did.
2. After I started the game I thought that setup might be a bit scum-biased. The roles they chose, town had to use powers on exact people that scum targets, and Vig is.. well, Vig - not always useful. I mean, sure, them getting 2/3 roles early (scum almost killed shra N1 too) did influence it a lot. IC instead of a Watcher was probably a better idea. Feedback on this is greatly appreciated, as I plan to make this Pirate setups in future too.
3. Speccy, Scum QT
4. I rooted for town
5. Sorry for this deadline confusion D3, I got confused due to GMT to Forum Time conversion.
6. MVP will be announced soon, sudgy has a say too

[liopoil]

in terms of balance, agreed this is slightly in favor of scum. the town PRs gave no benefit this game (negative in fact). Of course, the PRs will generally do better than that. I agree 100% with the choices scum made in this game. And just the number of scum VS town is imbalanced. with 3 scum in 13 town only has a 20.8% chance of winning. I think in general games have been imbalanced against town, shown partially by scum winning more games. People generally don't realize that a certain number of scum in a certain number of players is bad. In general, the town's mislynch number should be quite a bit higher than the number of scum. here, town can afford 3 mislyches, and there are 3 scum.

By the way, if you are wondering where I get my numbers, I find this link: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=The_EV_Project very helpful.

[mcmcsalot]

Few words from me:

1. Sudgers was an AWESOME co-moderator. He has probably done more work than I did.
2. After I started the game I thought that setup might be a bit scum-biased. The roles they chose, town had to use powers on exact people that scum targets, and Vig is.. well, Vig - not always useful. I mean, sure, them getting 2/3 roles early (scum almost killed shra N1 too) did influence it a lot. IC instead of a Watcher was probably a better idea. Feedback on this is greatly appreciated, as I plan to make this Pirate setups in future too.
3. Speccy, Scum QT
4. I rooted for town
5. Sorry for this deadline confusion D3, I got confused due to GMT to Forum Time conversion.
6. MVP will be announced soon, sudgy has a say too

Yes, everyone saying full doctor was a bad choice to put in, but I thought about it the same way grujah said, doctor had to target our nk, watcher had to target our nk, vig gave us a safe claim being caught by watcher too. Cop either catches scum or creates 2 IC's which is crazy strong. I would say tracker instead of watcher, though IC instead of watcher is good. It means we can't do IC and doc. Which means doc/cop/vig or IC/cop/vig that looks fair.

[liopoil]

yeah, watcher is almost always better than doctor. tracker and watcher are really pretty much equal. Both have exactly one player who they need to target each night to catch scum. Both also have the power to potentially verify claims. I'd say watcher is better because it's easier to guess who will be NKed than who will preform the NK.

[sudgy]

I had no say in raerae replacing, suddenly Grujah said she was replacing.  Grujah was rooting for town, so he didn't mean to make raerae subbing in be a town benefit.

Also, I would say Galzria for MVP.

[Grujah]

@lipoil's posts.

I took basic setup thing from mafiascum wiki, you might be right and this needed more townies/less scum. In future, I will give it more though.

I guess Doc should have been something else here? Maybe a Xshot-commuter or IC?

[mail-mi]

Few words from me:

1. Sudgers was an AWESOME co-moderator. He has probably done more work than I did.
2. After I started the game I thought that setup might be a bit scum-biased. The roles they chose, town had to use powers on exact people that scum targets, and Vig is.. well, Vig - not always useful. I mean, sure, them getting 2/3 roles early (scum almost killed shra N1 too) did influence it a lot. IC instead of a Watcher was probably a better idea. Feedback on this is greatly appreciated, as I plan to make this Pirate setups in future too.
3. Speccy, Scum QT
4. I rooted for town
5. Sorry for this deadline confusion D3, I got confused due to GMT to Forum Time conversion.
6. MVP will be announced soon, sudgy has a say too

Speccy and scum QT both link to the scum QT.

[Grujah]

I had no say in raerae replacing, suddenly Grujah said she was replacing.  Grujah was rooting for town, so he didn't mean to make raerae subbing in be a town benefit.

Also, I would say Galzria for MVP.

She PM'd me, and was readily available. I'd would have rather put raerae in than ash in any case, as ash had QT access and has talked to dead people. This is why I kinda dislike putting dead and spectators in same QT.


As I said in Mod QT, my favourite Galz move was unvoting and protecting Arch with "it wasn't the claim scum would make" D1.  I agree with him MVP. I considered yuma and Robz too for D3 huge cases

[Grujah]

@email-me
Fix'd.

[mail-mi]

@lipoil's posts.

I took basic setup thing from mafiascum wiki, you might be right and this needed more townies/less scum. In future, I will give it more though.

I guess Doc should have been something else here? Maybe a Xshot-commuter or IC?

Regular says Jailkeeper, IC, 1-shot Cop, 2-shot Vig, and Tracker, right?

Those look a lot stronger than what we have here, hmm. If I had to change something, change vig to 1-shot commuter (since its usually only negative anyway, right?)

[liopoil]

no, vigilante, on average, a pro-town role. it will hit town more often then not, but correctly vigging scum is a HUGE deal.

[Eevee]

Vig can't be a negative utility role for town, it's not like you have to use it.

[Archetype]

What a game! I feel really really bad that

a. I didn't contribute more D1

b. I didn't make an actual case on mail-mi

But good job scum! In the end I believed Eevee over Galz, but that was more because I didn't think there was a Cop in the setup.

In regards to the setup, I still like my idea of a 1-shot Commuter. Watcher > Tracker IMO, but they both have their uses so they could both be included. My only real problem with the setup is that I don't think I'd ever give the Town a Cop if I were scum, so that usually makes it 3 out of 4.

Thanks for hosting mods!

[EFHW]

Gah, shoulda lynched Galz.

---BTW, I wouldn't pushed to NK EFHW if we no-lynched. And yes, I would've done the kill. I would've been interested in seeing that play out.---

Do you mean wouldv'e?  And why me?  How did you think it would play out?

[EFHW]

I tried to ask it earlier - what should I have done? I genuinely want to improve my town play, as this was a pretty frustrating experience.

Maybe you needed to be more careful in how you counterclaimed?  Anticipate some of the reactions and really lay it out persuasively.  As town, you probably thought you shouldn't need to, but the timing was bad for being believed.

[Robz888]

Just read the spec qt, and again... yeah, nobody was close. In the same as living town. Everybody was a little right and mostly wrong. Eevee was more right, but he had one less suspect and knew a scum for sure.

Well played, scum. I have a slightly different perspective on Galz, since I did think he was scum, but I still think he played the best, and support him for MVP. Really, the whole scum team managed to do a pretty good job, no like single instances of spectacular play, just very solid all the way around. I actually think the town was playing its heart out today, but just could never have recovered from Days 1 and 2 and no useful PRs really.

The debating was a lot of fun, though. Stressful! But fun.

[EFHW]

And just the number of scum VS town is imbalanced. with 3 scum in 13 town only has a 20.8% chance of winning.

I didn't know the chances were so low.  That makes me feel a bit better.

[Galzria]

Gah, shoulda lynched Galz.

---BTW, I wouldn't pushed to NK EFHW if we no-lynched. And yes, I would've done the kill. I would've been interested in seeing that play out.---

Do you mean wouldv'e?  And why me?  How did you think it would play out?

Yes, would've. The idea being to take out someone who wasn't leaning towards supporting me, while also leaving Eevee (duh) and Robz (WIFOM) alive. Especially in regards to Robz, scum!Galz definitely would've wanted to see him dead. And while he might choose to leave him alive for WIFOM, it's probably more likely that scum!Eevee leaves him alive to be a champion of Galz's lynch. Thus it's (potentially) a stronger play to leave him alive for scum!Eevee than scum!Galz.

Not to mention it would've poked a whole in Robz big case, and who knows where that might've lead. And like I said, at the end of the day, I think it would've given my side better numbers to get the lynch we wanted.

[EFHW]

Well, I have to say your posts were very persuasive.  That long one about feeling misunderstood -- I'd been leaning toward believing Eevee, and that definitely set me back for awhile.

[yuma]

well I for one think that this game was over when I hammer TA rather than mail-mi. A mail-mi lynch would have broken the game over. I feel really bad about it. Because like I said above, my lynching TA was very emotionally based. It wasn't logic. It was panic and frustration and everything that a lynch should not be based on. Especially after bankers where it was such a struggle to get lynches through and then seeing us completely miss our soft deadline again I was just fed up and wasn't about to see a no lynch happen. Plus having friends over and feeling like I was obligated to check the thread... it was not a good spot for me to be in to make rationale and correct decisions.

So put me down for LMP for that fatal mistake. Because if we lynch mail-mi. I think we have a really good shot of winning the game. But next time... let's meet our soft deadlines shall we?

[yuma]

*LVP

[Galzria]

As far as scum size go...

2 scum in 9 is a standard format. I would say that between 3-4 town per scum is perfectly acceptable. So for 6-8 town, 2 scum (8-10 player game). 9-12 town, 3 scum (12-15 player game). 12-15 town, 4 scum (16-19 player game), etc.

Obviously powers change things around. The presence of a Vig or SK instantly add a variable of uncertainty (they hit town more often, but can devastate scum). Cops, Watchers, etc - anything that investigates, are often useless but can power up town quite a bit if successful. Doctor, in a setup without a secondary kill works much the same way but even stronger (no kill night = saved townie + IC made).

In this setup in particular, scum get nothing. They're all Goons. Yes, they get to choose what they face, but even with what we choose things could've broken quite differently. Lynching the Doctor was straight up bad play (although Robz is wrong here... Town!Galz often plays that terribly. I really do have trouble believing claims. My own issues though). And Shraeye shooting town at that juncture crippled town by removing a chance for a town consensus lynch (example to point: I would not have fake claimed if I couldn't lock out the win. Even if I win the debate with Eevee, I get lynched tomorrow).

Yes, the odds of Doctor or Watcher actually helping town are slim, but they can cripple scum when they do. See Ozle's first game as (extreme) proof of this. Excluding the hit by Vig, this broke down to an all Vanilla game. And give town the lynch back that the Vig took, and I don't think town is as dammed as it seemed. I don't think the balance was that far out of whack. Things just broke our way all game.

[Grujah]

Just read the spec qt, and again... yeah, nobody was close. In the same as living town. Everybody was a little right and mostly wrong. Eevee was more right, but he had one less suspect and knew a scum for sure.

Well played, scum. I have a slightly different perspective on Galz, since I did think he was scum, but I still think he played the best, and support him for MVP. Really, the whole scum team managed to do a pretty good job, no like single instances of spectacular play, just very solid all the way around. I actually think the town was playing its heart out today, but just could never have recovered from Days 1 and 2 and no useful PRs really.

The debating was a lot of fun, though. Stressful! But fun.

Arch was pretty on spot D1, he was on mail-me and another mafia member heavily D1, IIRC.

[Robz888]

Yes, the odds of Doctor or Watcher actually helping town are slim, but they can cripple scum when they do. See Ozle's first game as (extreme) proof of this. Excluding the hit by Vig, this broke down to an all Vanilla game. And give town the lynch back that the Vig took, and I don't think town is as dammed as it seemed. I don't think the balance was that far out of whack. Things just broke our way all game.

I don't think it was FAR out of whack, just a little. And I think this is exacerbated by the game just getting easier for scum, gradually as we all get better at the game. Maybe?

[Robz888]

*LVP

I really, really think you are being too hard on yourself.