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[nkirbit]

Yes, Eevee, that is what happened to me, and I chose to drink.

So since you chose to drink, were you told anything about what it was, or was falling unconscious supposed to be your clue?

All I was told was that after I drank the potion, I fell into a deep sleep that would appear to everyone else as if I had died.  I was given no more information about who had sent the drink, or if falling asleep was a guaranteed response, or what would have happened had I not drank it.

[EFHW]

Soft deadline, anyone?  How about Tues night? 

How are we doing on time?

[ashersky]

Currently using the 3 free days.  8 days and 20 hours in the bank.

[nkirbit]

I think Eevee has to be the prime lynch target here.  Keep in mind that Eevee has claimed to be lovers with Sudgy (I'm going to assume this true, but if he's lying, I don't think it actually matters anyway).

1) Eevee is town, and Sudgy DID send him that whisper.  We can believe Eevee's claim that he's lovers with Sudgy, and lynching Eevee is just as good as lynching Sudgy.

2) Eevee is scum, and lying about Sudgy's whisper, and may or may not be lying about being lovers with Sudgy.  We should lynch Eevee, since he's scum.

[nkirbit]

The only way lynching Eevee can go horribly, horribly wrong is if either:

Eevee is telling the truth, and lynching a town lover does not cause the scum lover to commit suicide.

or

Eevee is one of Julia/Sylvia, and there is another player who is Julia/Sylvia out there who is Sudgy's true lover.

I think it might be worth having the other Julia/Sylvia claim if they exist (it would have be either mail-mi, raerae, or EFHW, since I've already claimed non-lover).  What does everyone else think about having the other Julia/Sylvia claim if they exist, to stop us from making a mistake (assuming others agree with my idea of lynching Eevee).

[nkirbit]

I think at this point, we pretty much have to wait for Sudgy to show up, to see what he has to say.  Questions for Sudgy:

1)  Did you send Eevee that message?  If not, who did you send a message to?  Was it Eevee, or someone else?

2)  (Assuming that you did not send that message) would you be willing to lynch Eevee for lying?

[nkirbit]

You know, I just don't believe Eevee's claim.  To do it, I have to believe that Sudgy-Mail-mi is the exact scum team, and Sudgy would actually send that message.  I can believe the first, but the second is just too much.  I simply don't think that he would send it.

Vote: Eevee

[raerae]

raerae did you get an offer of a drink when sudgy whispered to you?

Nope.

[raerae]

You know, I just don't believe Eevee's claim.  To do it, I have to believe that Sudgy-Mail-mi is the exact scum team, and Sudgy would actually send that message.  I can believe the first, but the second is just too much.  I simply don't think that he would send it.

Vote: Eevee

Then why not vote for sudgy?  If you really do think it's the team.

[raerae]

The only way lynching Eevee can go horribly, horribly wrong is if either:

Eevee is telling the truth, and lynching a town lover does not cause the scum lover to commit suicide.

or

Eevee is one of Julia/Sylvia, and there is another player who is Julia/Sylvia out there who is Sudgy's true lover.

I think it might be worth having the other Julia/Sylvia claim if they exist (it would have be either mail-mi, raerae, or EFHW, since I've already claimed non-lover).  What does everyone else think about having the other Julia/Sylvia claim if they exist, to stop us from making a mistake (assuming others agree with my idea of lynching Eevee).

I can't and won't support an Eevee lynch.  We need to get sudgy.

[nkirbit]

You know, I just don't believe Eevee's claim.  To do it, I have to believe that Sudgy-Mail-mi is the exact scum team, and Sudgy would actually send that message.  I can believe the first, but the second is just too much.  I simply don't think that he would send it.

Vote: Eevee

Then why not vote for sudgy?  If you really do think it's the team.

I don't really think that's the team.  I wouldn't be surprised if it was, but it's not my #1 guess.

[nkirbit]

The only way lynching Eevee can go horribly, horribly wrong is if either:

Eevee is telling the truth, and lynching a town lover does not cause the scum lover to commit suicide.

or

Eevee is one of Julia/Sylvia, and there is another player who is Julia/Sylvia out there who is Sudgy's true lover.

I think it might be worth having the other Julia/Sylvia claim if they exist (it would have be either mail-mi, raerae, or EFHW, since I've already claimed non-lover).  What does everyone else think about having the other Julia/Sylvia claim if they exist, to stop us from making a mistake (assuming others agree with my idea of lynching Eevee).

I can't and won't support an Eevee lynch.  We need to get sudgy.

So you believe that Eevee's claimed message was true?  In that case, who do you think Sudgy's partner is?  Mail-mi?

[nkirbit]

If you believe that Eevee's claimed message is true, then you must believe that Eevee's claimed partnerhood with Sudgy is true.  If this is the case, then lynching Eevee is the same as lynching Sudgy!  But lynching Eevee is better, because there's a chance that Eevee is lying.

[raerae]

The only way lynching Eevee can go horribly, horribly wrong is if either:

Eevee is telling the truth, and lynching a town lover does not cause the scum lover to commit suicide.

or

Eevee is one of Julia/Sylvia, and there is another player who is Julia/Sylvia out there who is Sudgy's true lover.

I think it might be worth having the other Julia/Sylvia claim if they exist (it would have be either mail-mi, raerae, or EFHW, since I've already claimed non-lover).  What does everyone else think about having the other Julia/Sylvia claim if they exist, to stop us from making a mistake (assuming others agree with my idea of lynching Eevee).

I can't and won't support an Eevee lynch.  We need to get sudgy.

So you believe that Eevee's claimed message was true?  In that case, who do you think Sudgy's partner is?  Mail-mi?

I don't want to call teams; I want to lynch mafia.  Sudgy is a claimed lover who has survived too damn long to be town.

[nkirbit]

That may be a good reason to vote Sudgy if other people were dying, but they're not.  We have yet to see a night-kill.

Sudgy not dying isn't out of the ordinary when no one else is dying.

[raerae]

That may be a good reason to vote Sudgy if other people were dying, but they're not.  We have yet to see a night-kill.

Sudgy not dying isn't out of the ordinary when no one else is dying.

Exactly.  We have yet to SEE a night kill.  Doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

[nkirbit]

That may be a good reason to vote Sudgy if other people were dying, but they're not.  We have yet to see a night-kill.

Sudgy not dying isn't out of the ordinary when no one else is dying.

Exactly.  We have yet to SEE a night kill.  Doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

I agree.  But that's not a good reason to vote for Sudgy.  There could have been a night kill directed at Sudgy that was blocked just as easily as there could have been a nightkill directed elsewhere that was blocked, right?

You're arriving at the conclusion that because Sudgy isn't dead, he hasn't been targeted by NKs, and therefore it makes sense for him to be scum.  But we can't be sure that he hasn't been targeted by NKs.

[raerae]

That may be a good reason to vote Sudgy if other people were dying, but they're not.  We have yet to see a night-kill.

Sudgy not dying isn't out of the ordinary when no one else is dying.

Exactly.  We have yet to SEE a night kill.  Doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

I agree.  But that's not a good reason to vote for Sudgy.  There could have been a night kill directed at Sudgy that was blocked just as easily as there could have been a nightkill directed elsewhere that was blocked, right?

You're arriving at the conclusion that because Sudgy isn't dead, he hasn't been targeted by NKs, and therefore it makes sense for him to be scum.  But we can't be sure that he hasn't been targeted by NKs.

And you are trying to err on the side of caution when we are in no position to do so.  Explain why sudgy and Eevee are BOTH still alive.  Somehow scum targeted the same person who was protected?  That's a nice little dream but it isn't realistic.

[nkirbit]

I don't see why that little dream applies to my case, but not yours.  If Sudgy is scum, and he attempted to kill two other people, those kills we're blocked/doctored as well!  It's not a nice little dream.. it happened!

[nkirbit]

Also, I'm not trying to err on the side of caution.  I think Eevee is scum.

[nkirbit]

I'm just going to go ahead and put this out there:

I think Eevee and Raerae are our scum team

I believe it was fishy yesterday when Eevee listed raerae as his top scumread yet made no attempt to move the lynch from TA to raerae.  If you are "certain about raerae, and want to believe about TA", why aren't you working harder to move the lynch over to raerae?  It's very, very poor town play if you're town, and believable play if you're scum and raerae is your partner.. I think it's the second.

It's very fishy how raerae keeps pushing a Sudgy lynch by claiming it's bizarre that he's still alive, despite there being many possible reasons why it would make sense for town!Sudgy to be alive.  I think it's weird how raerae won't lynch Eevee despite it being the same outcome as a Sudgy lynch if Eevee is telling the truth and a much, much better outcome if Eevee is lying.

I simply disbelieve Eevee's claim about Sudgy's message.  I don't think Sudgy would send such a message.  It implies that Sudgy's is on a team with Mail-Mi (as Sudgy used the term 'he' to describe his partner), which is the most convenient claim to make.  Furthermore, Eevee claimed that A MAFIA MEMBER TOLD A TOWNIE THAT THEY WERE MAFIA.  I don't think I can highlight enough how ridiculous of a move that would be from mafia... no matter how bad your position looks, surely you can do better than slim chance that you correctly picked a survivor.

[raerae]

I don't see why that little dream applies to my case, but not yours.  If Sudgy is scum, and he attempted to kill two other people, those kills we're blocked/doctored as well!  It's not a nice little dream.. it happened!

Why do you assume they were blocked or doctored?  There are other explanations.

[raerae]

I'm just going to go ahead and put this out there:

I think Eevee and Raerae are our scum team

I believe it was fishy yesterday when Eevee listed raerae as his top scumread yet made no attempt to move the lynch from TA to raerae.  If you are "certain about raerae, and want to believe about TA", why aren't you working harder to move the lynch over to raerae?  It's very, very poor town play if you're town, and believable play if you're scum and raerae is your partner.. I think it's the second.

It's very fishy how raerae keeps pushing a Sudgy lynch by claiming it's bizarre that he's still alive, despite there being many possible reasons why it would make sense for town!Sudgy to be alive.  I think it's weird how raerae won't lynch Eevee despite it being the same outcome as a Sudgy lynch if Eevee is telling the truth and a much, much better outcome if Eevee is lying.

I simply disbelieve Eevee's claim about Sudgy's message.  I don't think Sudgy would send such a message.  It implies that Sudgy's is on a team with Mail-Mi (as Sudgy used the term 'he' to describe his partner), which is the most convenient claim to make.  Furthermore, Eevee claimed that A MAFIA MEMBER TOLD A TOWNIE THAT THEY WERE MAFIA.  I don't think I can highlight enough how ridiculous of a move that would be from mafia... no matter how bad your position looks, surely you can do better than slim chance that you correctly picked a survivor.

Seriously?  Seriously?  It's fishy how I'm repeatedly pointing out the most suspicious thing that's happened in this game???  So, let's just expand this, please explain my scumminess for defending TA yesterday.  I'm really excited to hear that. 

[raerae]

And, since apparently we can do this, this is the message sudgy sent me.  If you're town, is this what you waste your PM on?

"I'm whispering to you, as you're my top townread. I'll say I whispered to you, then you say so. Also, if you are Julia or Silvia, please start you're first post with a letter in the first half of the alphabet."

[nkirbit]

I don't see why that little dream applies to my case, but not yours.  If Sudgy is scum, and he attempted to kill two other people, those kills we're blocked/doctored as well!  It's not a nice little dream.. it happened!

Why do you assume they were blocked or doctored?  There are other explanations.

I meant that as a general class of options.  Either the killer was prevented from performing the kill, or the recipient was saved somehow.  So jailer, commuter would apply as well, as I'm sure others would.  Hider, there are probably more.

Basically, your views on the matter to me seem to be:

If sudgy is town, two kills disappeared!  That seems extremely unlikely, and I'm not going to believe such an unlikely story!

If sudgy is scum, two kills disappeared!  That seems believable.

I don't think two kills disappearing is a good reason for Sudgy being scum or not.  It happened regardless or whether or not Sudgy is scum.