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[liopoil]

Ultimately, all of my suspicion on Xeiron comes from his decision to semi-claim.  Maybe he just horribly botched it.

You don't know his role, so you don't know his reasons. I don't want to lynch X because I think this is townie, not scummy. There's my reasoning TA.

No more soft-deadlines. they're meaningless at this point.

I think Xeiron might be drawing too many assumptions from his role, say he thinks up 4 totally logical things, but if the last one isn't true everything falls apart.

I'm willing to lynch sudgy.

[xeiron]

While we are waiting for the rest, let me ask you some questions.

Do you think Ashersky made this setup so that:
1. We are in LYLO (or MYLO) D1?
2. We win D1 if we lynch correctly?

[liopoil]

I doubt we are in mylo or lylo, but it's totally possible that there's just one lover-scumteam or something.

[EFHW]

TA - I assume you are referring to this post:

Vote: TwistedArcher


I read both of their cases, and while nkirbit's case has a bit of an OMGUS tone, I think that TA's case is really weak. Defending yourself isn't scummy. Ever.

Lio, that wasn't a part of my case, at all. That was Sudgy's case.

While I find Nkirbit scummy, I find him scummy for completely different reasons than Sudgy does. I'll go back and quote Sudgy's case and where I fall on each of Sudgy's points. Then I'll respond to Nkirbit's defense.

You said you found nkirbit scummy for discrediting your case/you.  Isn't that you finding him scummy for defending himself?  Here is Sudgy's case.  He doesn't say anything about nkirbit's defense.

[EFHW]

And if you are referring the OMGUS allusion, they both mention that.  Neither says that you said anything about OMGUS.

[Twistedarcher]

#283 My case on Nkirbit
#285, 287, 288, 289 - Nkirbit's defense, case on me
#292 Sudgy votes Nkirbit - agrees with my case, says Nkirbit has been over-defending
#309, Lio votes TA. "I read both of their cases, and while nkirbit's case has a bit of an OMGUS tone, I think that TA's case is really weak. Defending yourself isn't scummy. Ever."  My previous posts were 293 and 296, none of which even mentioned nkirbit defending himself.
#311, I call Lio out on this.
#313 Lio says "Oh yeah, your case is more about other stuff". Then goes on to disagree with my case, leaving his vote on me, while saying he'd consider a sudgy lynch.

Me mentioning Nkirbit's defense confirming my read did not happen until after this. Lio's initial vote on me was for reasons that were attributed to Sudgy, and not to me. Yet when I called him on this, even though he acknowledged, instead of removing his vote, he then found new reasons why my case was scummy.

[Twistedarcher]

Also, Lio's next post after his vote:

oh, and I felt like I should vote for one of the two, seeing as I think there's a good chance that at least one as scum. I think that perhaps, being brothers, they can read each other better? I know that isn't the case in mcmc-robz, but still.

This is what nkirbit was talking about with the either TA or nkirbit thing being scummy.

[Twistedarcher]

While I still think Nkirbit is very possibly scum, he's approached the end of this day VERY rationally in my eyes, and I agree with everything that he's said. He has been trying to get a correct lynch, and analyze all of the evidence, which I don't really get from everyone.

[Twistedarcher]

While we are waiting for the rest, let me ask you some questions.

Do you think Ashersky made this setup so that:
1. We are in LYLO (or MYLO) D1?
2. We win D1 if we lynch correctly?

No, of course not. What does this have to do with anything?

[Twistedarcher]

Lio, EFHW,
This day is going nowhere without more votes. Can you two please lay down your votes somewhere? We're just wasting time and going in circle currently, and it's helping scum by shortening future days.

[liopoil]

Eevee, you said you wanted to lynch EFHW. Now that there's a bit of time, can you explain that?

[liopoil]

Lio, EFHW,
This day is going nowhere without more votes. Can you two please lay down your votes somewhere? We're just wasting time and going in circle currently, and it's helping scum by shortening future days.

hmmmm, okay. I'll put down a vote soon.

[Twistedarcher]

Ultimately, all of my suspicion on Xeiron comes from his decision to semi-claim.  Maybe he just horribly botched it.

You don't know his role, so you don't know his reasons. I don't want to lynch X because I think this is townie, not scummy. There's my reasoning TA.

No more soft-deadlines. they're meaningless at this point.

I think Xeiron might be drawing too many assumptions from his role, say he thinks up 4 totally logical things, but if the last one isn't true everything falls apart.

I'm willing to lynch sudgy.

Last night, you believed Sudgy's claim (although you did say it MIGHT belong to scum), and were trying to figure out the best plan for whom he should whisper.

Yet now you're willing to lynch him. What changed?

[liopoil]

I believe his claim, but that doesn't make him town...

[EFHW]

Ok, I see I had the timeline mixed up.  I reread his post, though, and he has quite a few reasons why he disagrees with you AND he is open to looking into sudgy, as you seem to suggest in your protest.  I don't make anything in particular of his not unvoting right then and there.  And I doubt he made up his reasons for disagreeing after his vote.  The thing about picking one of you I already disagreed with as an assumption, but it's not an unreasonable question. 

Remember please that I'm not defending Lio - I'm accusing you of again exaggerating small things into huge things and trying to get someone lynched on that basis.

[EFHW]

Lio, EFHW,
This day is going nowhere without more votes. Can you two please lay down your votes somewhere? We're just wasting time and going in circle currently, and it's helping scum by shortening future days.

hmmmm, okay. I'll put down a vote soon.

THIS is scummy.  Why so accomodating?

[liopoil]

because he makes a good point. Not voting at this point is anti-town.

[EFHW]

I believe his claim, but that doesn't make him town...

and this. Even if Sudgy isn't town, his lover probably is.

[EFHW]

Lio, EFHW,
This day is going nowhere without more votes. Can you two please lay down your votes somewhere? We're just wasting time and going in circle currently, and it's helping scum by shortening future days.

Vote: Twistedarcher

[xeiron]

I believe his claim, but that doesn't make him town...

and this. Even if Sudgy isn't town, his lover probably is.

If we cannot lynch scum if their lover is town.
How do you plan to win?

[Twistedarcher]

Ok, I see I had the timeline mixed up.  I reread his post, though, and he has quite a few reasons why he disagrees with you AND he is open to looking into sudgy, as you seem to suggest in your protest.  I don't make anything in particular of his not unvoting right then and there.  And I doubt he made up his reasons for disagreeing after his vote.  The thing about picking one of you I already disagreed with as an assumption, but it's not an unreasonable question. 

Remember please that I'm not defending Lio - I'm accusing you of again exaggerating small things into huge things and trying to get someone lynched on that basis.

I'm not exaggerating -- I'm looking into every possibility. Ignoring every piece of evidence against every player would be silly. I'm suspicious of all of you, as I should be, and I'd expect any town member to be suspicious of each and every other player, as well.

Yes, it strikes me as odd that he comes up with an initial reason for voting me, then when he is pointed out that reason was Sudgy, not me, instead of maintaining that that reason is the main thing he found scummy, and switching to Sudgy, he looked for other reasons to justify his vote on me.

[liopoil]

so what? we want scum to die no matter what, even if they bring town down with them.

Lio, EFHW,
This day is going nowhere without more votes. Can you two please lay down your votes somewhere? We're just wasting time and going in circle currently, and it's helping scum by shortening future days.

Vote: Twistedarcher

What?? Vote: EFHW

[EFHW]

I believe his claim, but that doesn't make him town...

and this. Even if Sudgy isn't town, his lover probably is.

If we cannot lynch scum if their lover is town.
How do you plan to win?

once again, you have a point.

[Twistedarcher]

Lio, EFHW,
This day is going nowhere without more votes. Can you two please lay down your votes somewhere? We're just wasting time and going in circle currently, and it's helping scum by shortening future days.

Vote: Twistedarcher

When you realize after this game I'm town, can you please never accuse me of being a scum on this stupid line of reasoning again? The only thing getting votes for scumhunting will do is make me want to scumhunt less, and that's not something I'm willing to do, since it's how we win the game!

[Twistedarcher]

I believe his claim, but that doesn't make him town...

and this. Even if Sudgy isn't town, his lover probably is.

If we cannot lynch scum if their lover is town.
How do you plan to win?

If we think Sudgy is scum, it's worth lynching him, even if a town member dies with him.

But I don't think Sudgy is scum