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[liopoil]

hi, I'm here. I haven't been focusing on this game too much, more busy with mean girls. I did answer raerae's questions. How in the world do you expect my reads to be based off more than hardly anything? it's early Day 1, there is literally nothing. A lot of posts came after raerae's questions before I checked the thread again.

[liopoil]

Why are we even talking about lovers anyway?  We don't even know if we have any, it would just fit with the theme...

lack of anything else to talk about. Not wanting to talk about this is slightly scummy, because scum might not want to. I'll Vote: sudgy

I disagree with this.

Role speculation is bad bad bad. Not wanting to talk about roles is fine! I don't want to talk about roles, and I don't get why we haven't moved on.

Saying "we expect X,Y,Z" makes scum know that they can fakeclaim "X,Y,Z" and have town believe them more easily!

Please guys, let's stop talking about roles.

Talking about roles is better for scum than for town, I think.

These are very good points. Unvote, and I'll stop talking about theory. That just all that I do early Day 1, because I don't have anything better to do. I have nothing at all solid to form reads on, and when I posted my thing with just slight vibes because it's better than nothing you all questioned it. I don't have anything to back it up!  It's early day one!

[liopoil]

okay, let's say that I actually DID see raerae's questions:

- If I'm town, I have no reason not to answer them, and no reason to claim to have missed them
- If I'm scum, I should answer them to avoid getting called out (I'm going to have to answer them eventually anyway), and even if I decided for whatever reason not to answer them, why should I claim to have missed them when I can just answer them?

and it isn't too implausible that I missed the questions. Looking back at it, those posts were very short, and we only clearly addressed to me if I look at the quote. I did not look at this thread until several posts after the questions. I have not been paying as much attention to this game, I have my hands full with the other ongoing game. I'll change that. I did not see the questions until they were re-quoted.

[liopoil]

So I'm saying that:

A) it's perfectly plausible that I missed the questions
B) if I didn't miss them, ignoring them and claiming to have missed them doesn't make sense even as scum. therefore, I must have missed them.

[liopoil]

well, I read the whole very short thread, and based off hardly anything:

slight slight slight scum: EFHW, eevee
slight slight slight town: xeiron, raerae, sudgy.

nkirbit, TA, and mail-mi aren't even slightly slightly slightly slightly anything.

Why isn't nkirbot anything? I get me and mail mi since we've contributed nothing but you should have some read one way or another on nkirbit for his vote of efhw. He's been probably the most active contributor thus far.

I'll take another look at nkirbit. I didn't put him down as anything because I didn't remember anything about him after reading.

[liopoil]

well, I read the whole very short thread, and based off hardly anything:

slight slight slight scum: EFHW, eevee
slight slight slight town: xeiron, raerae, sudgy.

nkirbit, TA, and mail-mi aren't even slightly slightly slightly slightly anything.

Why isn't nkirbot anything? I get me and mail mi since we've contributed nothing but you should have some read one way or another on nkirbit for his vote of efhw. He's been probably the most active contributor thus far.

TA, nkirbit never voted for EFHW, I just checked. Agree he has been the most active and trying to find something to work with D1. Why did you think nkirbit voted for EFHW? what do you think of nkirbit? I lean town after reading him, because of high content.

[raerae]

So I'm saying that:

A) it's perfectly plausible that I missed the questions
B) if I didn't miss them, ignoring them and claiming to have missed them doesn't make sense even as scum. therefore, I must have missed them.

Or, you saw mail-mi get away with it in Pirates and thought you'd test it out.  It's MUCH easier to say, "Whoops!  Missed it, sorry!" than to actually answer the question the first time around and give us more information to go on.

[liopoil]

I still end up answering the question, but draw extra attention to myself. I don't see the point. I didn't follow pirates all too closely, what did mail-mi gain from not answering questions?

[EFHW]

Okay, you actually have a point there.  What I was thinking about was my post:

I actually don't find him particularly scummy for it.  I think a mafia would be much more certain to not let answering a question that they were asked, then reasked, than a town would.  It's just much more reasonable for a townie to forget to answer a question.

and your response:

I don't know about that, nkirbit.  I doubt he forgot, having been asked twice. 

But looking at this again, you're right:  You weren't defending him, in fact, all you said was that you don't think he forgot, which I'm not going to draw any inferences from.  I misread this when I was re-reading, my mistake.

That being said:  Now that I'm clear that you think Mail-mi didn't simply forget to answer the question, what do you make of him not answering it?

I think I don't like when people don't participate.  Why sign up if you're not going to play?  This seems to be mail-mi's chosen style, but I think it is more consistent with him being scum than not, since as town I think he does try marginally harder.

Ok, my vote on xeiron wasn't RANDOM, but I didn't intend on following through to lynch on that basis, either.  It was along the lines of all the other votes - there was a pretext and it got conversation started.  And really, how does it help to put a vote down with no reason?  And how is my voting with a small reason worse?

[nkirbit]

Lio, I didn't follow Pirates that closely either, but my view of it is that by refusing to answer questions, he doesn't make any posts that could be self-incriminating.  The best way to catch scum, especially Day 1, is by catching them in some sort of contradiction or extremely odd behavior... by never answering questions, scum can be much more sure that this will never happen.

[EFHW]

Is it worth noting that mail-mi still hasn't answered raerae's question, despite being online since the point at which he said he would?

I actually don't find him particularly scummy for it.  I think a mafia would be much more certain to not let answering a question that they were asked, then reasked, than a town would.  It's just much more reasonable for a townie to forget to answer a question.

My question for you - why were you uncomfortable pointing out something that might make mail-mi look scummy, to the point where you made an extra post saying you didn't find him scummy?

[liopoil]

I didn't refuse to answer questions! I answered as soon as I was aware of them.

[EFHW]

Lio, I didn't follow Pirates that closely either, but my view of it is that by refusing to answer questions, he doesn't make any posts that could be self-incriminating.  The best way to catch scum, especially Day 1, is by catching them in some sort of contradiction or extremely odd behavior... by never answering questions, scum can be much more sure that this will never happen.

Not in this game!

[liopoil]

post count time! this includes pre-game posts, so I think everyone's is 2-5 higher than it should be.

EFHW: 37
Liopoil: 31
Raerae: 25
TwistedArcher: 21
Nkirbit: 20
Mail-mi: 13
Sudgy: 12
Xeiron: 7
Eevee: 6

[liopoil]

I'll note that while xeiron and eevee are the lowest, they're actually even lower. xeiron has 6, eevee has 3.

[raerae]

I hate post counts with every fiber of my being.  What do we truly gain from them?  We know the under-contributors, we know the over contributors, and everybody else falls somewhere in the middle.

Lio, what do you mean we're 2-5 higher than we should be.  What are you basing this on?

[raerae]

Ahhhh, never mind, misread that.

[raerae]

EFHW & kermit, do you find lio's explanation of "missing" my questions adequate?  What other thoughts do you have on that situation?

[liopoil]

I hate post counts with every fiber of my being.  What do we truly gain from them?  We know the under-contributors, we know the over contributors, and everybody else falls somewhere in the middle.

Lio, what do you mean we're 2-5 higher than we should be.  What are you basing this on?

pre-game posts.

I disagree.

1. they can't hurt. More info is never a bad thing, even if it is not helpful sometimes.
2. Yes, often they just confirm what we already know. However, sometimes a person can be lurking and we don't really realize the extent to which they are until we see the post count.

So often they don't do much, but they sometimes do, so why not make them?

[EFHW]

EFHW & kermit, do you find lio's explanation of "missing" my questions adequate?  What other thoughts do you have on that situation?

Yes I do.  The same thing happened to me when I missed nkirbit's post about me being scummy at first. 

[liopoil]

Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually as more questions?

Does town!mail-mi or scum!mail-mi usually avoid my questions?

mail-mi, I challenge you to do something more than agree with the SD.  What are your thoughts on xeiron and nkirbit?

Oh missed that. Currently going to a movie, answer when on a computer.

please explain to me how this is any different than what I said.

[raerae]

I hate post counts with every fiber of my being.  What do we truly gain from them?  We know the under-contributors, we know the over contributors, and everybody else falls somewhere in the middle.

Lio, what do you mean we're 2-5 higher than we should be.  What are you basing this on?

pre-game posts.

I disagree.

1. they can't hurt. More info is never a bad thing, even if it is not helpful sometimes.
2. Yes, often they just confirm what we already know. However, sometimes a person can be lurking and we don't really realize the extent to which they are until we see the post count.

So often they don't do much, but they sometimes do, so why not make them?

I never said don't make them.  I said I hate them.  You can post these all day long and it won't ever sway my opinion of somebody.

[nkirbit]

EFHW & kermit, do you find lio's explanation of "missing" my questions adequate?  What other thoughts do you have on that situation?

I'm assuming I'm kermit, I guess?

Yes, I somewhat do, actually.  I do agree with the argument that it doesn't make sense for Lio to ignore the questions if he were scum.. surely the attention brought on him was much heavier from ignoring than questions than simply asking the questions would have been.  This is a different case than mail-mi, as mail-mi actually acknowledged the question, yet still didn't answer later!  I can see lio entirely missing the questions, and at this point I would guess that's what happened.

I'm also uneasy with how this whole situation is developing.  Eevee, Raerae, and TA have already voted for Lio, Sudgy has stated intent to, I've said he's one of my two top reads, and EFHW has previously voted Lio.  So out of the 8 non-lio players, 6 have already either voted for him, say they're going to, or said he's one of their top scum reads.  I don't think we'd see such a strong support for this lynch if Lio was scum.

[raerae]

Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually as more questions?

Does town!mail-mi or scum!mail-mi usually avoid my questions?

mail-mi, I challenge you to do something more than agree with the SD.  What are your thoughts on xeiron and nkirbit?

Oh missed that. Currently going to a movie, answer when on a computer.

please explain to me how this is any different than what I said.

This difference is his was one question and yours was four...

[nkirbit]

Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually as more questions?

Does town!mail-mi or scum!mail-mi usually avoid my questions?

mail-mi, I challenge you to do something more than agree with the SD.  What are your thoughts on xeiron and nkirbit?

Oh missed that. Currently going to a movie, answer when on a computer.

please explain to me how this is any different than what I said.

I think they are different!  Mail-mi acknowledged the question, what, a day and a half ago, yet still hasn't answered it!  As soon as it was pointed out that you missed questions, you immediately answered them.  All I think you're guilty of is not reading thoroughly.  I'm starting to rethink my views on mail-mi