Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Robz888]

I will forever hold to the fact that Scout is the worst card in the game.

Despite the rumors, I do not think that Scout is the worst card in 2 player Dominion. In 2 player Dominion, Thief is worse than Scout. In 3 or  player dominion, Scout is worse. Adventurer is worse than both in either case.

[Morgrim7]

I will forever hold to the fact that Scout is the worst card in the game.

Despite the rumors, I do not think that Scout is the worst card in 2 player Dominion. In 2 player Dominion, Thief is worse than Scout. In 3 or  player dominion, Scout is worse. Adventurer is worse than both in either case.

WW says so. End of discussion.

[blueblimp]

KC-Bridge kingdoms aren't strategically straightforward. You will need to work to get those together in a hand, which means engine-building, which means choices. Lots of interesting stuff to do.

[ycz6]

So can you think of a kingdom setup that includes KC and Bridge that isn't dominated by that combo? I can't.

Sea Hag + 7 non-trashers
Goons + 7 non-drawers

[eHalcyon]

I like Bridge as is.  It is powerful, yes, but it is not trivial to match it up.  I feel like having that kind of super-combo is neat, and the feeling you get when you pull off KC-Kc-Bridge-Bridge-Bridge is awesome enough to keep.

I think NV-Bridge might outrace KC-Bridge.  Also, Possession might make you think twice about trying for the KC-Bridge megaturn.

I don't think Coppersmith should be nerfed.  It's already a weak card; stacking with KC is pretty much the only way it ever sees real use.  And even with the stacking, it usually isn't dominant because you ALSO need +Buy and a way to draw enough Copper to make it worthwhile.




For Adventurer, maybe search for 3 treasures and keep 2 (so you have a slightly better chance of getting good treasures with it).

For Scout, make it part Victory type so it can draw itself.  And maybe make it worth 1VP.

[qmech]

- Black Market - the buy options happen during the buy phase, remove part about spending your treasures in the action phase (nulls Tactician combo)

Black Market/Tactician is nowhere near overpowered.  It's also fun to play.  Nerfing combos is not a goal I'd have if I was revising cards, as it makes the game less interesting!

As blueblimp said, there are plenty of interesting decisions in building a KC/Bridge megaturn deck.  Are there more decisions for BM/Smithy?  Sometimes the goal of Dominion is to amass Treasure quickly; sometime's it's to Curse your opponent more than they Curse you; sometimes it's to assemble a killer combo.  The variety of winning conditions, and spotting which one is the one to aim for this time, is one of the things that makes Dominion great.

[Davio]

I don't think you would want to mess with the power levels of the cards or the costs.
Probably it's just better to invent different cards to take their place.

The only things that "need" fixing are the things that don't keep you honest like Throne Room which has no "you may" or "or reveal a hand with no action cards".

Acres has the problem that it has such a limited set of cards, so it's actually a pretty big problem. Dominion has so many different possible sets that one or a few problem cards are hardly a problem at all. They're too often a waste of space in the kingdom, but little hurtful.

[SirPeebles]

The big difference that I see between KC-KC-Bridge-Bridge-Bridge and KC-Goons-Masquerade is that the former ends the games immediately so you can start up a new game.  The latter causes a long drawn-out endgame that cripples your opponent's ability to do anything more than buy a Curse/Copper/Ruins.  They aren't really that comparable.

[Awaclus]

The big difference that I see between KC-KC-Bridge-Bridge-Bridge and KC-Goons-Masquerade is that the former ends the games immediately so you can start up a new game.  The latter causes a long drawn-out endgame that cripples your opponent's ability to do anything more than buy a Curse/Copper/Ruins.  They aren't really that comparable.

Though, it's always possible to concede as soon as you realize what's going on.

[dondon151]

I think that part of what H_D is saying is that sometimes, getting the KC-KC-3x Bridge hand first is too luck-based. In a tournament game at GenCon, I drew a hand of KC-KC-2x Bridge with little support in the kingdom, which was pretty lucky (and probably maddening for Fabian, who was one of my opponents and was going to be the clear winner until I drew that hand, which ended the game in a tie for 1st).

[ftl]

The best part of Dominion is that every game is different. Depending on the cards available, it might be a very luck-based kingdom or not, there might be one optimal strategy where both players go for minor tweaks on it or there might be a plethora of reasonable options, there might be a slow slog for VP or it might be a race to get a combo going first. Nothing wrong with some games having lots of luck in them! 

Now, as it turns out, the OP thought it was something that needed fixing because he plays a variant where all cards are always available, and so KC-bridge turned out to be a dominant strategy in that set. But I think that's a very different game than Dominion, where most sets are unique!

[SCSN]

I would change the first Native Village option to "+1 card, set aside one card from your hand face down on your Native Village mat". You'd probably need to increase its costs, but it opens up many strategic possibilities that its current randomness prevents from being viable.

[blueblimp]

I would change the first Native Village option to "+1 card, set aside one card from your hand face down on your Native Village mat". You'd probably need to increase its costs, but it opens up many strategic possibilities that its current randomness prevents from being viable.

Not sure whether you're serious (since it's April Fool's), but this would make Native Village insanely powerful, possibly even the best village in the game. (Well, maybe Fishing Village would still be better.) Early on, it would play a little like Village-plus-trash-a-card, which is fantastic. Later, it would still offer a lot of engine control--for example, if you've drawn your whole deck and have NV plus a draw card in hand, put that draw card on your mat so that if next turn you draw a NV in your hand, then you can immediately kick off your draw engine.

I'm not saying that crazily overpowering NV is a bad thing; I like Fishing Village as much as the next guy. But it would change the feel of the card a lot, and maybe not in a good way.

[AdamH]

I hate to poop on your parade, because I think this is interesting, but this and the Battle Royale most defo belong in the Variants subforum.

[theory]

Moved them.

[HiveMindEmulator]

One idea I had that I like is changing IGG to be a dual-type victory card worth 0 VPs. The reason is just to make them not run out at the same time as Curses as often. I think the more interesting part in IGG games is the transitions out of IGGs, and this can make transitions into things other than Duchies more common.

[eHalcyon]

Bridge isn't bugged.  Lots of cards are great with KC.

[Awaclus]

Bridge isn't bugged.  Lots of cards are great with KC.

True, and KC kind of sucks if every action card is errata'd so that it doesn't work with KC.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I've often wondered if Governor could be tweaked to be a little less game-warpingly powerful by giving the other players the option of which benefit they want. In a lot of Governor games giving your opponent a silver almost seems like an attack. This would slow play down quite a bit, though. And I guess it would ruin the whole Puerto Rico homage thing. Maybe just make picking the silver up optional?

[Asper]

Scout: if this card is in the kingdom add an additonal card to the kingdom.  Scout cannot be bought or gained.

I never had any problem with cards that are too weak. Forge and Expand are pretty crappy cards as far as i can see, but everyone may ignore them and still have a fun game... Cards like Rebuild are much worse for me. If a card is so strong you have to go for it or you'll lose, it just makes me feel like wasted time. It's not interesting. But maybe i just suck at rush strategies or whatever is the way to beat Rebuild

I would change the first Native Village option to "+1 card, set aside one card from your hand face down on your Native Village mat". You'd probably need to increase its costs, but it opens up many strategic possibilities that its current randomness prevents from being viable.

Not sure whether you're serious (since it's April Fool's), but this would make Native Village insanely powerful, possibly even the best village in the game. (Well, maybe Fishing Village would still be better.) Early on, it would play a little like Village-plus-trash-a-card, which is fantastic. Later, it would still offer a lot of engine control--for example, if you've drawn your whole deck and have NV plus a draw card in hand, put that draw card on your mat so that if next turn you draw a NV in your hand, then you can immediately kick off your draw engine.

I'm not saying that crazily overpowering NV is a bad thing; I like Fishing Village as much as the next guy. But it would change the feel of the card a lot, and maybe not in a good way.

Scout: if this card is in the kingdom add an additonal card to the kingdom.  Scout cannot be bought or gained.

I also think Native Village could use a buff. "Look at the top card of your deck. discard it or put it face-down on your Native Village map." seems okay to me. It still would be a 3$, i guess, and we need some weak/difficult cards, after all.

[HiveMindEmulator]

I've often wondered if Governor could be tweaked to be a little less game-warpingly powerful by giving the other players the option of which benefit they want. In a lot of Governor games giving your opponent a silver almost seems like an attack. This would slow play down quite a bit, though. And I guess it would ruin the whole Puerto Rico homage thing. Maybe just make picking the silver up optional?

Hadn't thought of that one... but yeah... if player 2 doesn't want the Silver he ought to be able to say "no thanks".   As is, he can't even Moat against it.

The remodel choice already has "may" and it would be unusual for player2 to turn down the +1 card.


How many other cards force the opponent to do something without being labeled attacks?  Here are the ones I found ordered from most severe to least...

Ill-Gotten Gains
Masquerade
Possession (esp if they Ambassador your Colonies away...)
Governor
Embassy
Tribute
Council Room

I think the bottom four could all include the word "may".

How would Tribute work with "may"?

[SirPeebles]

I've often wondered if Governor could be tweaked to be a little less game-warpingly powerful by giving the other players the option of which benefit they want. In a lot of Governor games giving your opponent a silver almost seems like an attack. This would slow play down quite a bit, though. And I guess it would ruin the whole Puerto Rico homage thing. Maybe just make picking the silver up optional?

I feel like those forced Silvers are what keeps Governor toned down a bit.  Without your opponent junking you with Silvers, it would be too easy on many boards to amass slim decks of nothing but Gov 'n' Gold, leading to explosive megaturns.

[Davio]

Maybe allow revealed Tribute cards to be put back, but that may imbalance it too much.

[ipofanes]

But I am pretty firmly in the camp that every card has its uses at least once in a great while.

That doesn't mean there can't be a worst card :p

Oh for sure there can be a worst card, but that doesn't mean it doesn't deserve to exist.

True. Because then you'd start eliminating cards, and eventually nothing deserves to exist! It's like that proof that all numbers are interesting.

Doesn't that proof exist for natural numbers only?

[SirPeebles]

It depends on what you mean by exist, but there's a rather trivial extension to any countable with a canonical or "interesting" bijection with the natural numbers.  And then there are people who seem to think that a property such as "not definable" makes a number intrinsically interesting.