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[Destierro]

I can vote Axxle whenever, but it's fine to keep talking, and has Wero OR Axxle appeared yet? So yeah we want to wait for that obviously.

No wero, axxle or Eevee so far. We should wait until they all post their lists. Speaking of which, can we get yours robz?

[Axxle2]

Ok, here's the deal. I am a Town Vigilante. The last two nights I tried to kill Axxle. Neither attempt succeeded (Obviously).

There are three reasons why it might not have.

1. I was roleblocked

2. Axxle was doctored

3. Axxle is SK, and picked 1 shot BP

Now, in what order these all happened I'm not entirely sure, but I must say I am comfortable with an axxle lynch today. Again, he only posted twice yesterday.

Vote: Axxle2

I roleblocked you each night.  I am a town roleblocker.

[Axxle2]

I think mailmi's push on me makes it pretty clear I'm town, he was going for the easy mislynch.

I don't get the liopoil kill from a mafia perspective, I'm thinking that comes from town.

I think everyone should claim, we still have all of our power roles and can probably solve the setup now.

From scummiest to towniest:

spiritbears - his actions today scream scum that wants to confuse
Dest - he's voting position seems very scummy to me, but being a vig might explain why he was so big on targeting me yesterday.
werothegreat - he comes across as behaving more confused than he should be, he might be faking it as scum.  Breaking the lock yesterday seems like he's mad he couldn't save his teammate but trying to make it look like he's just mad to be left out of it as town.
Eevee - I remember there being a few phrases from eevee that comes from scum more often than town, but I'd have to track them down to be sure.
Robz888 - Still reserved here but I think his play might have been a bit different as scum, I think he would have bussed the goon and not the godfather, not the other way around
sudgy - meh
mcmcsalot - meh

[Axxle2]

Vote: spiritbears

[Robz888]

I can vote Axxle whenever, but it's fine to keep talking, and has Wero OR Axxle appeared yet? So yeah we want to wait for that obviously.

No wero, axxle or Eevee so far. We should wait until they all post their lists. Speaking of which, can we get yours robz?

I already gave mine!

Also, I have a task I'd like everyone to perform, as the first post of the day:

Please post an updated scummiest-to-towniest list. Do this as your first post. Before anything else.

Sorry! Missed that. Okay, here I go:

Axxle, given everything that's transpired plus Des's claim
Des, if Axxle flips town
Wero, also been scummy, I actually thought his WS hammer was more likely a scum move
Spiritbears, was on the wrong wagon yesterday
sudgy, much less likely to be scum than those above, but has been scummier than those below
Eevee, has mostly done non-scummy things and lynched right both times
mcmcsalot, ditto
TA/Robz

[Robz888]

Ok, here's the deal. I am a Town Vigilante. The last two nights I tried to kill Axxle. Neither attempt succeeded (Obviously).

There are three reasons why it might not have.

1. I was roleblocked

2. Axxle was doctored

3. Axxle is SK, and picked 1 shot BP

Now, in what order these all happened I'm not entirely sure, but I must say I am comfortable with an axxle lynch today. Again, he only posted twice yesterday.

Vote: Axxle2

I roleblocked you each night.  I am a town roleblocker.

Why did you roleblock him each night?

[Twistedarcher]

I am 100% against a mass claim. We know nothing that's verifiable with no town prs exposed. If there's masons they should claim. Otherwise, no claims.

[Axxle2]

Ok, here's the deal. I am a Town Vigilante. The last two nights I tried to kill Axxle. Neither attempt succeeded (Obviously).

There are three reasons why it might not have.

1. I was roleblocked

2. Axxle was doctored

3. Axxle is SK, and picked 1 shot BP

Now, in what order these all happened I'm not entirely sure, but I must say I am comfortable with an axxle lynch today. Again, he only posted twice yesterday.

Vote: Axxle2

I roleblocked you each night.  I am a town roleblocker.

Why did you roleblock him each night?

I thought he was in the wrong position in each end of day wagon.  On day 1 he voted off the WS wagon, distinctly without voting with WS.  This was a tossup between you and him, but I thought that you wouldn't perform the kill anyway just in case you were roleblocked.  On night 2 I saw that there is already two scum voting for mcmc, and Dest was again voting off the scum lynch, so I blocked him.

side note: Looking back at all the votes I really doubt you're scum now since I doubt you'd all pile on one guy just to save the goon.

[Twistedarcher]

Yay! Great day 1 play followed by a lucky night 1. Yuma, I know you're reading this, we'll avenge you!

Okay, I think we should start by rereading the end of yesterday and determining who made the WS lynch happen and who didn't. It's great that the IC was opposing it, gives us even better chances off the wagon I would think?

The last three don't tell us all that much, since the WS was increasingly certain by then. Eevee joined it at a fairly pivotal time, though, so I would also be less inclined to think of him as scum. By the time spiritbears and wero were voting, WS was getting lynched for sure. They did nothing to make that lynch happen.

This last part is untrue. Spiritbears was the 6th vote on WS, but at that point, it wasn't clear that WS was going to be lynched over Mcmc. If he had decided to place his vote on Mcmc instead, they would have been tied in votes, and we would have just needed to convince one person to switch from WS to Mcmc. So while WS was the likeliest lynch, it wasn't a foregone conclusion at all, and his point came at just a critical a point, if not more critical, than Eevee's vote.

No, I disagree. WS was the clear lynch by then.

Here's Vote count 1.26:

liopoil (2): Destierro, Axxle2
mcmcsalot (4): Robz888, mail-mi, Twistedarcher, WinterSpartan
WinterSpartan (6): Yuma, mcmcsalot, sudgy, liopoil, Eevee, spiritbears {L-1}
Robz888 (1): werothegreat


I agree with what you said about Eevee. Placing his vote on WS was at a pivotal time, and it reads towny to me.

Consider this, though. Spiritbears was replaced in recently, and had the chance to reread the game and make his own opinions, without being held accountable to anything previous. It was 5-4 WS over Mcmc then. Placing a vote on WS made it 6-4, while a vote on Mcmc would have made it 5-5. I can't imagine that Spiritbears, as mafia, would read the game, and then decide that placing a vote on his mafia partner, to bring him to L-1, was the preferable move. Scum spiritbears would have absolutely brought the vote count to 5-5, and wouldn't have been questioned really. I think that he gets major town points for that, and I don't want to lynch him today.

Axxle -- please answer this argument. Do you think spiritbears would bus his partner that hard d1?

[Axxle2]

It's very possible. WS was the goon, the least necessary part of the scumteam.

[Eevee]

Hi guys, please no lynching while poor Eevee sleeps?

I acknowledge the demand to post a list, but I'd like to organize my thoughts a bit first.

Axxle2, while obviously scummy, doesn't strike to me as mafia. Consider we had pretty much every living player voting for him or mailmi yesterday! Mailmi flipping mafia makes axxle being mafia less likely.

Now, a sk would make sense, but we've two nights with only one kill. Seems more likely there is no sk.

I never understood the T's and whatnots, are axxles and destierros claims conflicting? Destierros bit seems less likely to be a scum lie, so I guess he comes off townier anyways. However, is it really a dest-or-axxle - situation?

Robz
wero
spiritbears
axxle
destierro
sudgy
mcmc
TA

or something, really hard to make one immediately after night (will get a better feel of this game after playing it for a bit again). Either way, I don't think the axxle lynch is SUCH a slam dunk, definitely worth discussions at least.


.. although crap that roleblocker claim is so convenient. Maybe I should have put him higher on the list.

[Eevee]

Yeah spiritbears is townier than axxle and destierro definitely, for choosing WS over mcmc.

[Twistedarcher]

The claims are in no way conflicting, and actually slightly support each other, assuming there is no one else to claim roleblocker.

[spiritbears]

The claims are in no way conflicting, and actually slightly support each other, assuming there is no one else to claim roleblocker.

Can you explain this to me TA?  I'm confused about how their claims can be consistent.
Also, I'd like to hear more from Eevee about "Mai flipping scum makes A2 less likely"

I do think a2 has helped himself somewhat since he almost got the ax.....
But his omygus vote on me for staying on his case (I actually gave him lots of chances to clear his name before the last lynch but he chose to ignore me and everyone else) comes off as somewhay desperate scum...especially since there is no legitimate case on me. (I cast a critical vote for WS at a critical time..unfortunately I missed the bus on Mai, but I don't believe I ever had a misread on Mai.  I was in favor of either lynch, I just thought A2 was a easier case when he had all but dissappeared (I was not alone in that)).

[Twistedarcher]

The claims are in no way conflicting, and actually slightly support each other, assuming there is no one else to claim roleblocker.

Can you explain this to me TA?  I'm confused about how their claims can be consistent.
Also, I'd like to hear more from Eevee about "Mai flipping scum makes A2 less likely"

The only way dest could have targeted axxle twice and axxle is still alive is if there was a town roleblocker blocking him. Axxle could be that roleblocker or just be making an opportunistic claim.

[Destierro]

The claims are in no way conflicting, and actually slightly support each other, assuming there is no one else to claim roleblocker.

Can you explain this to me TA?  I'm confused about how their claims can be consistent.
Also, I'd like to hear more from Eevee about "Mai flipping scum makes A2 less likely"

The only way dest could have targeted axxle twice and axxle is still alive is if there was a town roleblocker blocking him. Axxle could be that roleblocker or just be making an opportunistic claim.

Technically not true. There could be a mafia roleblocker, and a SK. (See the setup with one T)

[Eevee]

When there are exactly two targets and everyone is after one or another, it's just very unlikely they are both of the same scum team.

[Twistedarcher]

The claims are in no way conflicting, and actually slightly support each other, assuming there is no one else to claim roleblocker.

Can you explain this to me TA?  I'm confused about how their claims can be consistent.
Also, I'd like to hear more from Eevee about "Mai flipping scum makes A2 less likely"

The only way dest could have targeted axxle twice and axxle is still alive is if there was a town roleblocker blocking him. Axxle could be that roleblocker or just be making an opportunistic claim.

Technically not true. There could be a mafia roleblocker, and a SK. (See the setup with one T)

True...but unlikely. Occums razor says he's not scum.

I think we should try to look at axxle beyond his lurkiness

[Twistedarcher]

Everyone -- if you were Sk -- which power would you claim and why?

[Robz888]

Everyone -- if you were Sk -- which power would you claim and why?

Bulletproof is genuinely considered to be the better defense, I think.

[Robz888]

Oh are you saying, what would you lie and pretend that you were? Vigilante.

[Twistedarcher]

Oh are you saying, what would you lie and pretend that you were? Vigilante.

Oh sorry I was unclear. But I guess both questions.

[werothegreat]

Oy.  So much text.

Scummy to towny:

Robz - for reasons i've previously stated
spiritbears - drawing us closer to a lynch
axxle2
destierro
sudgy
mcmc
TA

[Robz888]

The more I tihnk about this, assuming Des is telling the truth, Axxle probably IS a roleblocker.

The question is whether he is a Town or Scum roleblocker.

[mcmcsalot]

The more I tihnk about this, assuming Des is telling the truth, Axxle probably IS a roleblocker.

The question is whether he is a Town or Scum roleblocker.

Full claiming would sort this out wouldn't it? I mean we could get the exact setup and decide what we are dealing with. Also if we have TA give us an order we could catch scum I there fake claim, something won't fit.