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[mail-mi]

In going to bed now so if u want hammer Robz ur up.

[yuma]

yes, nothing has changed for me. I am irritated that WS called for a "case" on him. I presented on forever ago on him that he attempt to rebut, but frankly failed.

I think he was trying to buy more time. I say hammer him.

Mind linking it? Honestly, all that I recall is vague "you've lurked and voted for people that I don't think are scum" things. I've called my reads as I see them.

sure, cause it is soooo much easier for me to go find it than for you to look for yourself...

Let's compare to WS

The main points on WS are:
22 posts
Fluff posts: #67, 103, 111, 114, 119, 180, 311, 382, 477 so 9/22. Comparable to lio
Good content posts: # 216, 217, 307, 478, 479, 486. So six posts, slightly higher than lio.
- he has been the main proponent and pusher of the idea of a sudgy/lio scum team. Which is good because if both of these players are town, then it puts the focus on them and not on him and his scumteam.
- he used a false pretense in casting suspicion on lio. The sudgy wagon was not crumbling when lio voted for WS. Like I said before the sudgy wagon was at L-2. If lio had joined it would be at L-1. That isn't a wagon about to fall apart and deflect back to him.
- However, I do believe that his vote on eevee was a deflection. TwistedArcher, you say that you were also going to vote for eevee, but you realized that it would be a lost cause? Well why didn't WS realize the same thing. Maybe because he had realized that someone created a pretty good case on him, realized he was lurking and needed a safe place to make a case and put a vote?
- has been lurking, second most to BoxofDog and when he was called out for lurking he immediately posted a lot! This to me is a classic scum signal. See Grujah in MXI, Lekkit in MXVII and a few other examples. Scum will lurk and then they get called out and be suspicious and then they will start posting a lot in an attempt to say, "Uh-huh, I am posting a lot! See!?"

Neither are slam dunk cases. Day1 cases rarely are. But I think the case against WS has a lot more to it than lio. Furthermore, WS is playing the type of game I expect scum to try and play. Whereas lio isn't. Lio is being the lio I remember from MXIX where he was town, just playing the game. I think lio as scum would be playing differently.

MCMC - I just rememered that you said somewhere that lio could be following some advice that you gave about defending a townie for town points? This is a valid point to an extent, but do you think it is one that you can build a case off? I mean, would town lio be just as likely to defend someone he thought was townie as scum lio? I know I am town, and I am defending lio right now. So does that make me scummy? I think this sort of logic is extremely faulty and is being used backwards.

So quick summary: I think WS is the better lynch. I think sudgy is the better lynch over lio. I think there are other players (eevee, axxle2) who are better lynches than lio. I won't criticize TA for his case. It was well built, but does have some holes in it. But what is more concerning is that everyone else that has voted for lio has done so based off sheeping or for reasons that dont' make much sense at all. This looks like a classic day1 mislynch.

and

those last three posts have made me want to vote for winterspartan.

vote: winterspartan

here is why:

Honestly, this looks like scum liopoil realizing that the sudgy wagon is stalling and trying to start another wagon before people switch to his.

this isn't true at all.

this was the vote count when lio voted: WS
(sudgy (5): WinterSpartan, yuma, Destierro, werothegreat, mail-mi) note that it takes 7 to lynch and lio wasn't on the wagon at the. sudgy wagon wasn't going to die, especially if lio joined it and put him to L-1.

It looks like TwistedArcher wants to explore alternatives to sudgy/liopoil (it seems a little late for that and I'm ready to vote liopoil, but I suppose we can at least talk about alternatives). Honestly this makes me want to Vote: Eevee - if you aren't going to be helpful even as town unless you get votes, then voting for you is a win/win situation. Either you're town and it makes you start helping, or you're scum and we might get a scum lynch.

Still in for sudgy if that's what's going down. Liopoil seems to be panicking a bit, and I'm fine with that lynch as well. Going to have to try to find time to reread more and find other alternatives. Parking here for now because, seriously - you're refusing to help until you get pressure? I'm willing to help provide that pressure.

I don't like this vote on eevee. It is a blah vote. He isn't voting him because he is scummy, he says is voting him because eevee basically asked to be voted for. But mostly he looks like he is trying to move the topic away from himself. this looks way more like someone trying to deflect from an impending lynch. lio doesn't appear to be the one panicing, WS seems to be the one panicing.

[yuma]

sorry, that was snippy. I apologize.

[Axxle2]

sure, cause it is soooo much easier for me to go find it than for you to look for yourself...

It is.  You know what it looks like and when you posted it a lot more than he does since you wrote it.

[yuma]

sure, cause it is soooo much easier for me to go find it than for you to look for yourself...

It is.  You know what it looks like and when you posted it a lot more than he does since you wrote it.

sorry, that was snippy. I apologize.

[WinterSpartan]

yes, nothing has changed for me. I am irritated that WS called for a "case" on him. I presented on forever ago on him that he attempt to rebut, but frankly failed.

I think he was trying to buy more time. I say hammer him.

Mind linking it? Honestly, all that I recall is vague "you've lurked and voted for people that I don't think are scum" things. I've called my reads as I see them.

sure, cause it is soooo much easier for me to go find it than for you to look for yourself...

Let's compare to WS

The main points on WS are:
22 posts
Fluff posts: #67, 103, 111, 114, 119, 180, 311, 382, 477 so 9/22. Comparable to lio
Good content posts: # 216, 217, 307, 478, 479, 486. So six posts, slightly higher than lio.
- he has been the main proponent and pusher of the idea of a sudgy/lio scum team. Which is good because if both of these players are town, then it puts the focus on them and not on him and his scumteam.
- he used a false pretense in casting suspicion on lio. The sudgy wagon was not crumbling when lio voted for WS. Like I said before the sudgy wagon was at L-2. If lio had joined it would be at L-1. That isn't a wagon about to fall apart and deflect back to him.
- However, I do believe that his vote on eevee was a deflection. TwistedArcher, you say that you were also going to vote for eevee, but you realized that it would be a lost cause? Well why didn't WS realize the same thing. Maybe because he had realized that someone created a pretty good case on him, realized he was lurking and needed a safe place to make a case and put a vote?
- has been lurking, second most to BoxofDog and when he was called out for lurking he immediately posted a lot! This to me is a classic scum signal. See Grujah in MXI, Lekkit in MXVII and a few other examples. Scum will lurk and then they get called out and be suspicious and then they will start posting a lot in an attempt to say, "Uh-huh, I am posting a lot! See!?"

Neither are slam dunk cases. Day1 cases rarely are. But I think the case against WS has a lot more to it than lio. Furthermore, WS is playing the type of game I expect scum to try and play. Whereas lio isn't. Lio is being the lio I remember from MXIX where he was town, just playing the game. I think lio as scum would be playing differently.

MCMC - I just rememered that you said somewhere that lio could be following some advice that you gave about defending a townie for town points? This is a valid point to an extent, but do you think it is one that you can build a case off? I mean, would town lio be just as likely to defend someone he thought was townie as scum lio? I know I am town, and I am defending lio right now. So does that make me scummy? I think this sort of logic is extremely faulty and is being used backwards.

So quick summary: I think WS is the better lynch. I think sudgy is the better lynch over lio. I think there are other players (eevee, axxle2) who are better lynches than lio. I won't criticize TA for his case. It was well built, but does have some holes in it. But what is more concerning is that everyone else that has voted for lio has done so based off sheeping or for reasons that dont' make much sense at all. This looks like a classic day1 mislynch.

and

those last three posts have made me want to vote for winterspartan.

vote: winterspartan

here is why:

Honestly, this looks like scum liopoil realizing that the sudgy wagon is stalling and trying to start another wagon before people switch to his.

this isn't true at all.

this was the vote count when lio voted: WS
(sudgy (5): WinterSpartan, yuma, Destierro, werothegreat, mail-mi) note that it takes 7 to lynch and lio wasn't on the wagon at the. sudgy wagon wasn't going to die, especially if lio joined it and put him to L-1.

It looks like TwistedArcher wants to explore alternatives to sudgy/liopoil (it seems a little late for that and I'm ready to vote liopoil, but I suppose we can at least talk about alternatives). Honestly this makes me want to Vote: Eevee - if you aren't going to be helpful even as town unless you get votes, then voting for you is a win/win situation. Either you're town and it makes you start helping, or you're scum and we might get a scum lynch.

Still in for sudgy if that's what's going down. Liopoil seems to be panicking a bit, and I'm fine with that lynch as well. Going to have to try to find time to reread more and find other alternatives. Parking here for now because, seriously - you're refusing to help until you get pressure? I'm willing to help provide that pressure.

I don't like this vote on eevee. It is a blah vote. He isn't voting him because he is scummy, he says is voting him because eevee basically asked to be voted for. But mostly he looks like he is trying to move the topic away from himself. this looks way more like someone trying to deflect from an impending lynch. lio doesn't appear to be the one panicing, WS seems to be the one panicing.

Thank you. Sorry for putting you to the trouble.

My response:

-Yes, the sudgy wagon was at L-2 when I left, but nobody had joined in a while and people were beginning to leave it. It had completely stalled.
-My vote for Eevee was in hopes of starting a wagon there - you never know if it's a "lost cause" until you try. Every wagon starts somewhere.
-I only have access at certain times, as I've repeatedly pointed out. I was called out for lurking while at work, and (as I've done every day) posted when I got back from work. I suppose this does look bad with the timing, but that's been my posting pattern every day.
-I certainly wasn't trying to "deflect". At the time, there was only one vote on me - that's not danger. I'm honestly not even panicking now; town can still come to its senses and lynch scum! If you want to see panic when getting voted, please read mcmc's recent posts. There's a lot of frustration and panic there.

[WinterSpartan]

Oh, on the sudgy/liopoil scumteam pushing (the only point, I believe that I didn't address above): Perhaps I was too gung-ho about that. But if you reread day one, you can't help but notice how much they've defended each other. Your experience is quite possibly right; they could just be town seeing each other as town. To me they looked like scumbuddies. I could be wrong. Heaven knows my D1 reads in RMM7 were bad.

[Axxle2]

sure, cause it is soooo much easier for me to go find it than for you to look for yourself...

It is.  You know what it looks like and when you posted it a lot more than he does since you wrote it.

sorry, that was snippy. I apologize.

[yuma]

Thank you. Sorry for putting you to the trouble.

My response:

-Yes, the sudgy wagon was at L-2 when I left, but nobody had joined in a while and people were beginning to leave it. It had completely stalled.
-My vote for Eevee was in hopes of starting a wagon there - you never know if it's a "lost cause" until you try. Every wagon starts somewhere.
-I only have access at certain times, as I've repeatedly pointed out. I was called out for lurking while at work, and (as I've done every day) posted when I got back from work. I suppose this does look bad with the timing, but that's been my posting pattern every day.
-I certainly wasn't trying to "deflect". At the time, there was only one vote on me - that's not danger. I'm honestly not even panicking now; town can still come to its senses and lynch scum! If you want to see panic when getting voted, please read mcmc's recent posts. There's a lot of frustration and panic there.

- that isn't the point. This isn't about you. It is about you accusing lio of creating an alternate wagon. He expressed a town read on sudgy and voted elsewhere when sudgy was at L-2. His vote would have put him to L-1. That is not a dying wagon.
- you say that but it doesn't seem like that. It seemed more like a deflection to me. And it was such an easy vote to deflect to.
- I understand that you aren't on a lot. I get that, I do as one who has been in the same situations. But you are still at the bottom of the post count, but what is more significant is that once you were called out for it, you amped up your posting. This has been in the past a scum-tell.
- deflecting... you are right, I don't know for certain. But that is what it looked like to me. And as for paniced, you are right again. I don't know what is running through your head right now. But it looked like an "oh, shoot! they are onto me!" moment and you had to find a way to get the attention away asap!


PPE: I disagree! I have not seen them defending each other in any significant way. lio has had a town read on sudgy. Town reads happen. and wasn't sudgy voting for lio?

To reiterate, I am still ok with this lynch. I am going to bed. Night all.

[Twistedarcher]

Wero - A Lio lynch is looking unlikely, and a Robz lynch won't happen at all today. The two real options are WS and Mcmc at this point. Which would you rather vote for?

no clue.  reading now.

Answer the question please, Axxle.

[werothegreat]

We are 36 pages in.

unvote

vote: winterspartan

If I'm missing something about bad form or something, please ignore this, but this day has gone on for far too long already.  No hard feelings, winterspartan.

[WinterSpartan]

Well that's that then. Good luck town; you'll need it! Apparently scum are deceptive indeed.

[sudgy]

(As I was saying earlier, it wasn't not liking your case, it was stretching the facts in the case)

[Robz888]

The thing is, I would have expected him to fake claim if he were scum.

[Robz888]

Maybe he's scum that doesn't know he should fake claim?

[Robz888]

I don't know. Can we take like another half a day to think about this? I'm not sue if I want him lynched or mcmc.

[sudgy]

We are 36 pages in.

unvote

vote: winterspartan

If I'm missing something about bad form or something, please ignore this, but this day has gone on for far too long already.  No hard feelings, winterspartan.

While I'm fine with you hammering, having a lot of pages doesn't mean that the day has gone on for too long.  It's having a lot of rl days that is bad.  We had several pages written a day...

[sudgy]

I don't know. Can we take like another half a day to think about this? I'm not sue if I want him lynched or mcmc.

?  Wero just hammered him...

[werothegreat]

Lots of pages means I go out for the night and come back to a wall of text that I really don't feel like sifting through.  Which means that mafia is probably not for me.  I'll finish this game, but I'm probably not going to be returning, unless subsequent 'days' are better.

Anyway, now that we've killed an innocent townsman, can we finally realize that liopoil is scummy?

[Twistedarcher]

Ugh. Wero. Seriously? It's one thing if you think he's scummy, but because the day's gone on too long?? Even if he does turn out to be scum...that's frustrating, given the time everyone else has put in to making these arguments.

[Robz888]

[Twistedarcher]

Lots of pages means I go out for the night and come back to a wall of text that I really don't feel like sifting through.  Which means that mafia is probably not for me.  I'll finish this game, but I'm probably not going to be returning, unless subsequent 'days' are better.

Anyway, now that we've killed an innocent townsman, can we finally realize that liopoil is scummy?

Why would you not be the top suspect now?

[Robz888]

Oh I can't believe this got screwed up after all the good work we did.

[Twistedarcher]

Oh I can't believe this got screwed up after all the good work we did.

Were you going to hammer?

[Robz888]

Oh I can't believe this got screwed up after all the good work we did.

Were you going to hammer?

No! I thought we could talk about it more. There-really-wasn't-any-rush.