Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Galzria]

It's noted that Box will be replacing out. I'll do what I can to get a replacement for him. In the meantime, carry on.

[Robz888]

Sigh. I really, really dislike replacements. But fine, Box doesn't have any contributions anyway, so we will essentially just be gaining a player.

I feel like this hasn't been the most productive Day 1 so far, I don't know. I don't have like a very strong grasp of each player. People aren't posting enough, I don't think.

At least our IC is working fairly hard. He has a pretty well argued case against lio. I just don't think lio is playing like the sort of person who flips scum on Day 1. But it's not like I'm the expert for finding scum Day 1. I've never done so.

[mcmcsalot]

As far as day ones go I am actually pretty happy with liopoil or winter spartan. My vote can be cast when needed.

[yuma]

As far as day ones go I am actually pretty happy with liopoil or winter spartan. My vote can be cast when needed.

i personally think you should vote now and decide which one you think is best rather than waiting.

[Robz888]

As far as day ones go I am actually pretty happy with liopoil or winter spartan. My vote can be cast when needed.

Uh oh. That's pretty scummy.

[Robz888]

As far as day ones go I am actually pretty happy with liopoil or winter spartan. My vote can be cast when needed.

Uh oh. That's pretty scummy.

This reminds me exactly of mcmc's statements about the then-likely Day 1 lynch of Cuzz in DS9. His tentative, "I can get on board later, is that okay," was scummy then (I should know, we were scumbuddies), and this looks a lot like that.

[Robz888]

Anything to say for yourself, mcmc? That just reminds me so strongly of how I know that scum mcmc approached a Day 1 mislynch before.

[mcmcsalot]

Oh also I am fine with not waiting for our replacement. I strongly dislike waiting for the replacement to catch up it gives there insight to much ic like power. People tend to sheep them too much in my opinion. I think adding a player over night is a better option.

Ppe: agreed Yuma, I sort of said that because I have been out around campus all day and so posting from mobile is a bit hard to make sure I haven't missed anything. When I get home I will double check things and cast my vote. However if my vote was needed for either of them prior to then I would be okay with casting it.

Ppe2: yea I very much meant that I like both of them as lynch targets, I want to lynch one of them and intend to cast my vote as soon as I have computer access. We do however have an ic and if he requested my vote on one of them now for some reason I would do so. Not because I 100% trust him but because I find both liopoil and winter spartan scummy.

Ppe3: gosh yes I have things to say for myself I'm typing them! Also I think you have a very misconstrued view of how scum mcmc approaches anything. You saw multiball scum mcmc, I was truly scum hunting through that entire game. To see how I react as scum with full knowledge of the setup go read ZMXI and newbie mafia. Just realized this is the letters setup game and there could be multiple scum teams, so I guess your thought have some ground. Though I will say I still think I would act much differently here then in ds9 where I was had confirmed knowledge of a scum team to hunt for.

[sudgy]

Alright, I'll post my reads list now that I have time.  I don't have any solid town or scum reads though...

Slight Scum: liopoil (sorry, I've been really back and forth on you, TA case was fairly good), Destierro, WinterSpartan
Slight Town: wero, Robz
Middle: Eevee, mcmc, mail-mi, Axxle2, yuma
Null: Person replacing Box

I would vote for everyone on the slight scum category.  I don't know which one though, I don't know how many votes they have.  Could we have a vote count?

[yuma]

unofficial, but I am pretty sure it is correct as I just copied and pasted from the previous page and add like 3 votes.


sudgy (1): Destierro
liopoil (4): Axxle2, Eevee, wero, twistedarcher
Destierro (1): sudgy
WinterSpartan (3): liopoil, Yuma, Robz888
Eevee (1): WinterSpartan
BoxofDOG (1): mail-mi

Not Voting (2): mcmcsalot, BoxofDOG

[Robz888]

Ppe3: gosh yes I have things to say for myself I'm typing them! Also I think you have a very misconstrued view of how scum mcmc approaches anything. You saw multiball scum mcmc, I was truly scum hunting through that entire game. To see how I react as scum with full knowledge of the setup go read ZMXI and newbie mafia. Just realized this is the letters setup game and there could be multiple scum teams, so I guess your thought have some ground. Though I will say I still think I would act much differently here then in ds9 where I was had confirmed knowledge of a scum team to hunt for.

I don't think this addresses my criticism in the slightest. This game is structured differently than DS9, but not hugely differently, there are roughly a similar number of unknowns for a scum player in this game as in that one. I'm saying that I recall your reaction to the Cuzz wagon end pretty strongly, since I was your scumbuddy and I was worried it would get you in trouble. And I think you just did a very similar thing.

[sudgy]

unofficial, but I am pretty sure it is correct as I just copied and pasted from the previous page and add like 3 votes.


sudgy (1): Destierro
liopoil (4): Axxle2, Eevee, wero, twistedarcher
Destierro (1): sudgy
WinterSpartan (3): liopoil, Yuma, Robz888
Eevee (1): WinterSpartan
BoxofDOG (1): mail-mi

Not Voting (2): mcmcsalot, BoxofDOG

Then I guess I'll Vote: liopoil.

[mcmcsalot]

I find it frustrating that all you quote is the third part, when I feel I explained why I said what I said in the previously portions. To show how they tie in ill explain.

I guess I honestly just for feel these two things are similar at all. In ds9 I wasn't sure cuzz was scum, I thought he might be and as such stated intent to hammer. I can see that it was a suspicious move because I wasn't positive he was scum but was willing to vote because either way his lynch was good for me. I stated intent to hammer and then didn't because there was still things going on when I had to go(believe it was for bed) when I came back he was hammered.

Here I have said I find these people scummy, and am not casting my vote yet because I don't like voting from mobile and would rather wait till I get home. The only reason I said I would cast my vote if needed was if there was some reason I my vote was needed for a lynch on either one of these. I had not known wha the post count was nor when out soft deadline was set for, I knew we were close and that liopoil was close to lynch and as such I didn't want liopoil getting hammered without saying I intent to cast a vote for liopoil or winter spartan. I would feel uncomfortable saying I think there both scummy and not back it up with a vote seeing as they are the two likely lynches and simply stating suspicion on suspicious people and not backing it up is scummy. So feeling uncomfortable not voting and feeling uncomfortable voting left me saying what I did.

So I really think this is a wholly different situation than ds9

[Twistedarcher]

As far as day ones go I am actually pretty happy with liopoil or winter spartan. My vote can be cast when needed.

Vote now please. Will read longer replies and answer when not On phone.

[Twistedarcher]

Winterspartan:

#67 Haikus and hopeful for some setup analysis
#103 RVS for Sudgy
#111 meaningless haiku
#114 First to suggest a soft deadline
#119 Apology for haikus. Doesn’t seem forced or overly apologetic in any way to me, seems very natural
#180 Pushes for soft deadline
#216 (a little) support for idea of Sudgy-Lio scum team. Says he is coming around to idea of Sudgy being scum
#217 Prods Wero specifically for more information
#266 Says he could possibly support Lio lynch, but concerned that Axxle, Wero are pushing lynch
#288 Pushes lurkers to talk more, asks what would get them to talk more
#307 Responds to Robz asking if he’s saying that much himself. Says he’s done more moving conversation than analysis, which is certainly true. Then provides his scummiest list. Eevee, Lio, Sudgy are biggest scum reads.
#311 Questions Eevee on early claim
#337 Equates sudgy this game to earlier sudgy, when he was scum in LOTR game
#382 Skeptical we’ll learn anything from claims, but goes along
#477 Claims Snake Eyes, needs to catch up
#478 Response to Lio’s vote on him, saying his case is pretty weak
#479 Ready to vote Lio. Votes Eevee for not saying he’ll contribute unless voted on.
#480 Pushes more on Eevee
Yuma then votes for WS, says he thinks WS is panicking.
#486 Responds to Yuma’s vote. Says he’s not panicking, backs up vote for Yuma, says Sudgy wagon going away
#487 Says wagoning makes sense in context of Lio/Sudgy scum team

In Summary, I just don't see it. Yeah, he hasn't been the largest contributor, but certainly has contributed more than many others, and his content/post ratio is pretty high. He was the first person to push for a soft deadline, and was the one of the first to post his town/scum lists, and proceeded to push others to do the same. Rather than commenting on what everyone else has been talking about, he's been trying to find new angles.

Yuma, I don't really agree with your case on WS. It didn't come across to me as panicking, and I almost voted Eevee for the exact same thing -- the only thing stopping me is that I didn't really think it would gain any traction. But he was basically begging for votes when he stated it was the only way he'd contribute.

I see nothing to lynch WS over -- yeah, he's lurked a little, but not as much as others. Yeah, he voted Sudgy, but so did a bunch of other people, and they had less reasoning than WS did. He seemed to sheep me when I moved towards a Lio lynch, which is a bit concerning, but other than that, I don't see a whole lot in this case.

[Twistedarcher]

Another thing to note on WS, is that among all the lurkers, the ONLY one he pushed on was Wero. Didn't push on Box or Dest at all. So that's interesting and something to keep in mind for the future...

[mcmcsalot]

Back on computer, couple things on axxle.
First, did he announce vla? he's been gone for 5 days...
Second, he looks scummy to me for calling out a scum team so early and pushing it. Seeing a connection between two people is good, asking what people think of your scumteam is bad.
Third, he mentions scum is more likely to forget reads and votes than town, he earlier forgot the ammount of votes on a player and cast what he thought was an L-1 vote very early. Pretty scummy to me.


So here is my list.

Scum - Liopoil, winterspartan, axxle2
Slight scum - Destierro, BoxofDog
Slight town - robz888, eevee, sudgy, werothegreat
Town - mail-mi, yuma

my slight town category probably needs rereads to define them better.

[mcmcsalot]

oh and vote: liopoil which is L-1

[yuma]

Ok:

just to summarize for myself:

the main points on lio are:
38 posts
- "has a lot of posts that are theory, RVS, jokes or nothing:" I counted #71, 73, 74, 76, 80, 85, 96, 106, 127, 144, 205, 207, 211, 233, 241, 384, 389, 392, 415, 417, 448. so 21/38 posts.
his posts that have good content are: 123, 189, 202, 410, 476, 472. So six posts.
- "he shifts his opinions on sudgy" his initial vote on him was RVS but for what I consider a serious reason (my vote shortly after wasn't RVS, neither was axxle's). He then unvotes once he gets to L-3. Expresses a townread on sudgy/yuma because of our conversation. Maintains his townish read on sudgy. I have to say here that for scum here it would be very tempting to create a scum read on sudgy and put him at l-1, especially when you are the other potential lynch. (there is the cavat that if sudgy and lio are on the same team, it could be an attempt to deflect away from their team, but I continue to maintain that it is too early to try and analyze scumteams w/o anything to go off). So I read that as a town maneuver. So I maintain that this point is invalid. I don't think he has changed his stance on sudgy. In the early game he RVS voted him and since then has only expressed a town read on him.
- "wants to vote for a lurker, but votes for WS instead of a true lurker." At the time, WS was second lowest only to box, as lio mentions. Oh, TA mentioned this as well. So this is an invalid point.
- all of the above was from TA, I couldn't find any other rationale for voting lio by other players except:
   - sheeping the IC by nearly everyone
   - a sudgy/lio scum team is a possibility from wero
   - eevee's vote which only talks about robz and WS.

If there are any other reasons please let me know. Right now I do not think there is enough justification to vote lio. What is being suggested appears to be faulty evidence.

Let's compare to WS

The main points on WS are:
22 posts
Fluff posts: #67, 103, 111, 114, 119, 180, 311, 382, 477 so 9/22. Comparable to lio
Good content posts: # 216, 217, 307, 478, 479, 486. So six posts, slightly higher than lio.
- he has been the main proponent and pusher of the idea of a sudgy/lio scum team. Which is good because if both of these players are town, then it puts the focus on them and not on him and his scumteam.
- he used a false pretense in casting suspicion on lio. The sudgy wagon was not crumbling when lio voted for WS. Like I said before the sudgy wagon was at L-2. If lio had joined it would be at L-1. That isn't a wagon about to fall apart and deflect back to him.
- However, I do believe that his vote on eevee was a deflection. TwistedArcher, you say that you were also going to vote for eevee, but you realized that it would be a lost cause? Well why didn't WS realize the same thing. Maybe because he had realized that someone created a pretty good case on him, realized he was lurking and needed a safe place to make a case and put a vote?
- has been lurking, second most to BoxofDog and when he was called out for lurking he immediately posted a lot! This to me is a classic scum signal. See Grujah in MXI, Lekkit in MXVII and a few other examples. Scum will lurk and then they get called out and be suspicious and then they will start posting a lot in an attempt to say, "Uh-huh, I am posting a lot! See!?"

Neither are slam dunk cases. Day1 cases rarely are. But I think the case against WS has a lot more to it than lio. Furthermore, WS is playing the type of game I expect scum to try and play. Whereas lio isn't. Lio is being the lio I remember from MXIX where he was town, just playing the game. I think lio as scum would be playing differently.

MCMC - I just rememered that you said somewhere that lio could be following some advice that you gave about defending a townie for town points? This is a valid point to an extent, but do you think it is one that you can build a case off? I mean, would town lio be just as likely to defend someone he thought was townie as scum lio? I know I am town, and I am defending lio right now. So does that make me scummy? I think this sort of logic is extremely faulty and is being used backwards.

So quick summary: I think WS is the better lynch. I think sudgy is the better lynch over lio. I think there are other players (eevee, axxle2) who are better lynches than lio. I won't criticize TA for his case. It was well built, but does have some holes in it. But what is more concerning is that everyone else that has voted for lio has done so based off sheeping or for reasons that dont' make much sense at all. This looks like a classic day1 mislynch.

[ashersky]

Thread locked.

[ashersky]

Thread locked.

Unlocked.

[Robz888]

So quick summary: I think WS is the better lynch. I think sudgy is the better lynch over lio. I think there are other players (eevee, axxle2) who are better lynches than lio. I won't criticize TA for his case. It was well built, but does have some holes in it. But what is more concerning is that everyone else that has voted for lio has done so based off sheeping or for reasons that dont' make much sense at all. This looks like a classic day1 mislynch.

Yes, yes, and yes. I agree with you completely. TA has built a commendable, if flawed, case against liopoil. WS makes more sense (although isn't airtight either), sudgy makes more sense than at least lio, and man there is some serious sheeping on the lio front.

May I suggest one of the sheep for slaughter? Mcmcsalot

I really think he reacted scummy to the recent wagon developments, very similarly to how he reacted in DS9 as scum. Yes, this scum read on him contradicts my early impression, but oh well. Him throwing his vote on lio, the more likely, IC-approved lynch, just now after being called out for taking a stand, does not make me feel good about him.

Vote: mcmcsalot

PPE False alarm on the hammer, it seems.

[liopoil]

YES!!!! I was so pissed for a second there. gimme time to respond, K?

[Twistedarcher]

Unvote

Not sold, but going to consider the case. And ashersky just gave me a heart attack.

[mcmcsalot]

Here are some posts by liopoil and why I find them post scum!liopoil would make.

I said not to be hasty because being hasty is never a good idea! why do you think sudgy and I are scummy, wero? sure, you could read us as scum partners looking out for each other, but it seems much more likely that we are both town. scumteam evaluations are only a good idea once we've lynched a scum. before that they are baseless.

again he isn't emphasizing why he think sudgy is townie, just that because he defended sudgy it is more likely they are both town. This is the same mentality as if one is scum they both are which people disagree with.

I think that we should not lynch ANYBODY unless the IC is on the wagon. He isn't right now, and sudgy is at L-2. I have no idea if twistedarcher wants to lynch sudgy, but we should certainly wait for him, and probably for the flavor-claiming too.

Easy way for scum to make the decision come down to one person, if you remember me and liopoil put all our eggs into the kooshie basket and worked out really well in newbie mafia.

my scummiest to towniest list

1. WinterSpartan: reasons in this post

2. Werothegreat: little content per post, and not many posts. also generally an active poster on this forum in general, so he probably can post more than he is.
3. boxofdog: LALL
4. axxle2: bad case on me and silly scumteam prediction thing.
5. mcmcsalot: unnaturally short and "quiet" posts
6. robz888: same reasons as eevee said
7. destierro: also not many posts, but otherwise not much, so pretty null
8. mail-mi: nullllll
9. sudgy:

10. eevee: always town. No, but seriously, I think he's been very towny this game, though I don't like his semi-tunnelling of robz.
11. Yuma: has 50 posts, the most townie number of them all. but really, that's second most, and he has lots of contributions. His thing with sudgy helped us out of RVS. lynching high contributers D1 is just generally a bad idea, and I don't care if scum will talktalktalk all the time to get this image.
12/13. Liopoil and TwistedArcher

The top five are the main ones that I want to consider lynching today.

PPE: a lot. quickly reading it my town read on eevee dropped a bit...

His reads seem so fake and forced. He cuts off people he will lynch at the top five, he will lynch me and won't lynch robz but it seems to me his list, other than his scum read of winterspartan, is just a list of everyone in order of their post counts. So why make this cut off? Eevee has mentioned the town read on him seems super off. After that he says his town read on robz all but vanished, what town read? so everyone above 5 on this list is supposedly town and below is scum? Again just doesn't feel like open honest thoughts.