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Author Topic: Trying to find a balance on a Vineyards board  (Read 1383 times)

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dudeabides

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Trying to find a balance on a Vineyards board
« on: March 13, 2013, 12:51:08 pm »
0

I'm curious to hear thoughts on the strategy to employ in this kingdom:
Cards in supply: Bank, Crossroads, Haggler, Inn, Margrave, Potion, Spice Merchant, Spy, Talisman, Vineyard, and Walled Village

In order to get some original ideas, I'd like to hear your thoughts before you look at the log and my comments on this game below (in "spoiler" font).

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201303/13/game-20130313-093852-4a135a11.html

We both open Talsiman/Silver, but our strategies quickly diverge.  Gamesou gets 2 Potions on T3 and T4, while I get a Spice Merchant and a Haggler.  As a result, Gamesou has 3 Vineyards by the time I get my first.  At the end of the game, Gamesou has 6 Vineyards to my 2, but I have 20 action cards to his 4.  Luckily, I'm able to turn this into a 13-turn game before Gamesou can accumulate more action cards.  Clearly, I'm going for a rush while Gamesou is preparing for a longer haul.  Is there a middle ground?  Is a game with this kingdom ever likely to last much longer than 13 turns?
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shark_bait

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Re: Trying to find a balance on a Vineyards board
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2013, 01:05:42 pm »
+1

Go for the Vineyards for sure.  Open SM/Silver, get a Haggler with first $5+ hand then grab Margraves, WV's, Spies and XR's.  You'd want to get a Potion or 2 early and start picking them up Vineyards.  You won't stall on greening b/c SM clearing out Coppers will make XR more reliable and even with Haggler in play, SM can take care of excess Copper.  You want enough Margraves so that you can use your cash on actions and then always have an extra buy to get the Vineyard.
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dudeabides

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Re: Trying to find a balance on a Vineyards board
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2013, 05:27:57 pm »
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Go for the Vineyards for sure.  Open SM/Silver, get a Haggler with first $5+ hand then grab Margraves, WV's, Spies and XR's.  You'd want to get a Potion or 2 early and start picking them up Vineyards.  You won't stall on greening b/c SM clearing out Coppers will make XR more reliable and even with Haggler in play, SM can take care of excess Copper.  You want enough Margraves so that you can use your cash on actions and then always have an extra buy to get the Vineyard.

If your opponent opens Talisman, as was the case in this game, is there enough time to build the engine you describe?  Also, when your opponent grabs 2 Potions on T3 and T4, how do you adjust?  Do you skip the $5 Haggler on T4 and go for a Potion, or do you stay the course?
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-Stef-

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Re: Trying to find a balance on a Vineyards board
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2013, 06:33:36 pm »
+5

If your opponent opens Talisman, as was the case in this game, is there enough time to build the engine you describe?  Also, when your opponent grabs 2 Potions on T3 and T4, how do you adjust?  Do you skip the $5 Haggler on T4 and go for a Potion, or do you stay the course?

When your opponent buys two potions on t3/4, you count the kingdom cards very carefully. Most likely you'll only get up to 8 or 9, and he has hidden some combination of familiar, university and/or scrying pool in the upper left pixel of your screen. However, in the unlikely event that's not true, you sit down, relax, and start enjoying your victory. Basicly your opponent bought himself two curses, but the kind that invites him to buy even more curses. Ok, Ok, those secondary curses are worth a few more points, but no way you can hurt your own deck this badly this early in the game and get away with it.

About the kingdom itself - Haggler, talisman and vineyards are all nice for your deck but not that great in a single turn together. I think I'd skip talisman. It's important to get margraves up fast, and the round 1 spice merchant really helps a lot on deck improvements. I basically agree with shark bait on the early game plan. Although the main plan is vineyards, don't disregard getting provinces here completely, especially if you get to play with 2 hagglers. But this kingdom is way too interactive / draw dependent to say something meaningful beyond the first couple of turns.
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Re: Trying to find a balance on a Vineyards board
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2013, 07:53:32 pm »
+2

To expand and generalize on what -Stef- is saying, one of the great reason multiple sources of big VP (like vineyards) are great for engines is that it lets them have time to set up, and they usually ca then transition into whichever they need to. Vineyards aren't so much good because 'oh my gosh vineyards are huge' as 'I can get huge vineyards if you go provinces (and provinces if you rush vineyards)'. It's the flexibility.
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