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[soulnet]

7 * 12 Victory cards = 84

There are 11 Victory cards actually. 7 kingdom ones + Estate/Duchy/Province/Colony. But, you need to count 11, not 12, to avoid finishing the game. Add 48-11=37 to your grand total.

EDIT: Also, prepare to add one more card to the Black Market soon.

[sudgy]

7 * 12 Victory cards = 84

There are 11 Victory cards actually. 7 kingdom ones + Estate/Duchy/Province/Colony. But, you need to count 11, not 12, to avoid finishing the game. Add 48-11=37 to your grand total.

EDIT: Also, prepare to add one more card to the Black Market soon.

There are 12 Victory cards, 8 kingdom ones (there are eleven kingdom cards due to YW) + E/D/P/C.  I accidentally thought there were 8 in each pile, not 12.

[florrat]

With 6 players the usual rule is to double the basic treasure piles, and have 3 VP cards per player in each pile. That adds 60+40+30+12+16+12*6 = 230 cards

[navical]

With 6 players the usual rule is to double the basic treasure piles, and have 3 VP cards per player in each pile. That adds 60+40+30+12+16+12*6 = 230 cards

I thought the extra 3 VP cards only applied to Provinces (and Colonies)?

[Tables]

With 6 players the usual rule is to double the basic treasure piles, and have 3 VP cards per player in each pile. That adds 60+40+30+12+16+12*6 = 230 cards

Navical is correct. The only rule changes are that you must use two sets of basic treasures (rather than may), 3 pile rule becomes 4 pile rule, and that you add an extra 6 Provinces and 20 curses (3p/10c in 5 player). Colonies are still limited to 12, even in 5-6 player.

[florrat]

Sorry, I did not know that. It feels weird to have differently sized victory card piles (especially Province vs Colony). Can you link to some place where Donald has said this (or is it in the game rules)? Not that I don't believe you, but after searching around I found contradictory statements from different players, and nothing from Donald.

[Simon (DK)]

You can find the rules for 5-6 players in the Intrigue rule book.
5-6 players are meant for people, who owns both the base set and Intrigue, and therefore has extra Province cards, but not extra Colony cards.

[Donald X.]

Sorry, I did not know that. It feels weird to have differently sized victory card piles (especially Province vs Colony). Can you link to some place where Donald has said this (or is it in the game rules)? Not that I don't believe you, but after searching around I found contradictory statements from different players, and nothing from Donald.

Including 6 extra Colonies would have required dropping a card from Prosperity. At the same time I don't recommend playing with 5 and never play with 6. So there was not a lot of incentive there. And then, how does that 5-player game play with 15 Provinces but only 12 Colonies? It plays fine (for a 5-player game). So we didn't include the extra Colonies and the rule is that it stays 12.

There was no point to upping Duchy/Estate (beyond starting Estates); the Province pile is what (typically) determines the game length. Upping kingdom card piles was not on the table.

[florrat]

Ok, thanks! Now that I almost exclusively play online I almost forget that rules are restricted by physical limitations.

And I agree, if you're with 5+ players and have twice the basic cards you should just play 2 games of Dominion, the 5-6 player rules are most useful for this puzzle subforum

[Tables]

Personally, playing casually I have no problems going for 5-6 players even without a second set of basic cards. Usually, we include 12 Kingdom cards in these games - mainly so that there are substitute cards for piles likely to disappear quickly. The biggest downside is that you can't just play full random like this, you kinda need to control what's going into the game to avoid some horrible things - some attacks, things that ram through treasure piles, make sure there's no kinda 'one pile is absolutely key' cards, stuff like that. Normally, it works, but having to go through that effort while setting up obviously makes it impractical generally.

And I agree, if you're with 5+ players and have twice the basic cards you should just play 2 games of Dominion, the 5-6 player rules are most useful for this puzzle subforum

Most groups don't like to split into two games, even if lots of people want to play Dominion. With the veterans, sure, but with casual players (which most people in the world are), you're just going to play with 5, not split into two.

[eHalcyon]

Most groups don't like to split into two games, even if lots of people want to play Dominion. With the veterans, sure, but with casual players (which most people in the world are), you're just going to play with 5, not split into two.

I've actually heard people say sincerely that they like Dominion more at the highest player counts.

[GendoIkari]

Upping kingdom card piles was not on the table.

It's clear that upping kingdom card piles doesn't work for production reasons; you don't want to include more than 10 of each card when the game normally only needs 10. But was it also not on the table for game design reasons? It seems like having more than 10 of each would be a good thing for more players; to ensure that it's possible to get more than just 1 or 2 copies of a card if you want.

[GendoIkari]

Most groups don't like to split into two games, even if lots of people want to play Dominion. With the veterans, sure, but with casual players (which most people in the world are), you're just going to play with 5, not split into two.

I've actually heard people say sincerely that they like Dominion more at the highest player counts.

Yeah, but I've also heard people say sincerely that they like Monopoly.

[markusin]

Most groups don't like to split into two games, even if lots of people want to play Dominion. With the veterans, sure, but with casual players (which most people in the world are), you're just going to play with 5, not split into two.

I've actually heard people say sincerely that they like Dominion more at the highest player counts.

Yeah, but I've also heard people say sincerely that they like Monopoly.

I don't mind the game that much. Sometimes, I don't want to play an intensely strategic game where I have to calculate every move. Sometimes, I just want to play a game with my family where we only have to think for about 2% of the game, mostly when the trades come in. We recently realized we're supposed to auction properties that don't get bought. It's kinda relaxing, and you get to watch TV or something once you lose. I mean all of this sincerely.

But ugh, it has terrible first player advantage! It doesn't even try to address it.

Wrong thread, I know.

[Donald X.]

It's clear that upping kingdom card piles doesn't work for production reasons; you don't want to include more than 10 of each card when the game normally only needs 10. But was it also not on the table for game design reasons? It seems like having more than 10 of each would be a good thing for more players; to ensure that it's possible to get more than just 1 or 2 copies of a card if you want.

I like that a card can be plentiful in a 2-player game and precious in a 5-player game. But if it were purely a computer game I imagine I would have bigger piles for more players.

[GendoIkari]

Most groups don't like to split into two games, even if lots of people want to play Dominion. With the veterans, sure, but with casual players (which most people in the world are), you're just going to play with 5, not split into two.

I've actually heard people say sincerely that they like Dominion more at the highest player counts.

Yeah, but I've also heard people say sincerely that they like Monopoly.

I don't mind the game that much. Sometimes, I don't want to play an intensely strategic game where I have to calculate every move. Sometimes, I just want to play a game with my family where we only have to think for about 2% of the game, mostly when the trades come in. We recently realized we're supposed to auction properties that don't get bought. It's kinda relaxing, and you get to watch TV or something once you lose. I mean all of this sincerely.

But ugh, it has terrible first player advantage! It doesn't even try to address it.

Wrong thread, I know.

I actually think that it's a fair comparison to 6 player Dominion. There's much less strategy with 6 players, and it's more of a "party game" almost. And the first-player advantage is enhanced as well.

[2.71828.....]

And now throw prince into your calculations

[sudgy]

And now throw prince into your calculations

Actually, I think all it does is up the Black Market deck by one.  We got all cards in the game but two in one player's hand, and prince will take away cards from the hand.

[soulnet]

And now throw prince into your calculations

I think its just +1.

[Awaclus]

And now throw prince into your calculations

I think its just +1.

Just like the respect he has gotten from that post so far.