Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[GendoIkari]

So opening Mountebank/Chapel is the best opening. Witch/Chapel is #5. Only problem is, both of these are terminal actions that you really want to play as soon as possible. So, what do you do if they colide on turn 3 or 4? Is it different at all if it's a Witch vs a Mountebank? Or if you get super unlucky and they both hit turn 5?

I'm pretty sure the answer is to prefer the Curser, just want to get some consensus.

[ftl]

Really? I would guess prefer the trasher. You can trash 3 cards with chapel, vs giving out 2 with mountebank. Chapeling away will let you see your MB sooner?

[D Bo]

I feel like it kinda depends what your opponent is dealt/doing. If they don't open 5/2 with you or get a trasher, I'd personally go the cursing route first.

[philosophyguy]

I'd be shocked if you don't want to trash. If they collide and you play MB, the most you can have is $5. (MB, Chapel, 3x Copper). Compare to the Steward decision of trashing 2 or taking $2 to buy a Gold; often the trashing is preferable. So, if the comparison is trashing an extra card (3 vs. 2) or getting a Silver (rather than a Gold), I would be shocked if you didn't want to trash.

[D Bo]

I'd be shocked if you don't want to trash. If they collide and you play MB, the most you can have is $5. (MB, Chapel, 3x Copper). Compare to the Steward decision of trashing 2 or taking $2 to buy a Gold; often the trashing is preferable. So, if the comparison is trashing an extra card (3 vs. 2) or getting a Silver (rather than a Gold), I would be shocked if you didn't want to trash.

The only problem with this is that with Steward you aren't attacking your opponent. I don't think you play the MB or Witch because you want to purchase something awesome, you do it to start cursing/clogging your opponent's deck. You still might have the right analysis, but that's at least the rationale that I'm using with this.

[HiveMindEmulator]

I think it depends on the rest of your hand. If it's all Copper, you may want to play your MB and buy a 5. Otherwise, you probably usually want to trash. The Estates are just like Curses, and by trashing sooner, you're going to get to play your curser more.

[Avalanchian]

I think it depends on the rest of your hand. If it's all Copper, you may want to play your MB and buy a 5. Otherwise, you probably usually want to trash. The Estates are just like Curses, and by trashing sooner, you're going to get to play your curser more.

I agree with this post in general, but especially the bolded section. While early curses are more painful (see: IGG or Sea Hag), you really want to win that curse split. Cycling your deck faster is an obvious way to pull ahead of your opponent without buying a second curser and praying that they don't collide. I'm sure there are a ton of cases where this isn't true - as always, it depends on the board - but I think this is the general principle.

[GendoIkari]

I understand the logic behind all the Chapel first arguments. But it seems also that you are kind of giving up your lucky 5/2 start if you do that. You open Mountebank (or Witch)/Chapel, your opponent opens Silver/Chapel. They colide, and you choose to play Chapel. Now, your turn 3 looks identical to your opponent's turn 3. And your turn 4 is going to be slightly worse than your opponent's turn 4, because perhaps he has a Silver turn 4. So he buys Mountebank/Witch turn 4, while you buy Silver probably. Now, you have identical decks, and you got absolutely no advantage out being lucky enough to get "the best opening."

Then again, I suppose that might just be how it is, and it's "the best opening" because they don't colide more than half the time.

[timchen]

Except that chapel+silver does not produce a 5 at turn 3-4 lots of time either.

[HiveMindEmulator]

I understand the logic behind all the Chapel first arguments. But it seems also that you are kind of giving up your lucky 5/2 start if you do that.

You're not giving up your 5/2 with your play. It's the shuffle luck that gave it up. You got lucky on the first deal to get 5/2, but then gave it back by getting a collision. If you then choose to play the hand wrong, you're not somehow going to preserve your advantage -- it's already gone! You're just putting yourself further behind.