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[Schneau]

Playing off the recent discussion of what is the best target for King's Court, I was thinking about what the worst target is. To make this more interesting than naming the worst cards, I am asking the question slightly differently: what card is the worst when King's Courted compared to it's usual strength. So, Scout is obviously bad with KC, but it is bad to begin with, so maybe it's not the one to vote for. Essentially, which card's second and third immediate plays are least useful compared to its first play?

I've excluded cards that plain old just don't gain anything with a second play: Library, Secret Chamber, Treasure Map, Outpost, Tactician, Watchtower, Counting House

[Tables]

It has to be Madman, surely? Just playing Madman would give you (usually) +4 cards +2 actions. KC it and you get +3 cards, +6 actions, and no KC left in hand. I'd go as far as to say, KC-Madman is worse than just flat Madman, assuming you aren't in a KC stack already.

[HiveMindEmulator]

Trading Post is pretty bad, since the trash is forced. I'm pretty sure you'll most often opt to simply not play the Trading Post rather than KC it.

[Drab Emordnilap]

I'm not even sure how a curser (Young Witch) is on the list. 

[Robz888]

It's not the worst, but King's Court on Warehouse is super demoralizing. Hey-wait-I-wanted-those...

[jonts26]

I'm not sure why a lot of those are up there. If KC'ing the card is strictly superior than just playing it without KC, then it's not even worth talking about. Yeah Goons doesn't give you more points, but +$6 and +3 buys is not bad at all. There are a ton of cards which the KC makes no difference for: Counting House, Outpost, Tactician, Treasure Map, Watchtower/Library (almost).

Of course the real winner should be a card which is almost always worse to KC, than play without KC. Madman probably does win that, but I think Rats makes a good case.

[SirPeebles]

Sometimes King's Courting a Throne Room is just plain worse than Throne Rooming the King's Court.

[DWetzel]

Given the constraints, I am pretty sure that Chapel is the choice here -- that ability to trash cards 5-12 in your hand doesn't exactly add to the value of the card (though I have done Throne Room/Chapel to decent effect -- Tactician appreciated the help).

[GendoIkari]

I'm not sure why a lot of those are up there. If KC'ing the card is strictly superior than just playing it without KC, then it's not even worth talking about. Yeah Goons doesn't give you more points, but +$6 and +3 buys is not bad at all. There are a ton of cards which the KC makes no difference for: Counting House, Outpost, Tactician, Treasure Map, Watchtower/Library (almost).

Of course the real winner should be a card which is almost always worse to KC, than play without KC. Madman probably does win that, but I think Rats makes a good case.

He mentioned all those in the original post, and explained why he didn't include them... same thing happened to me in my poll; I'm guessing people tend to only read the list of options in the poll, and not the post that goes along with them.

[GendoIkari]

Given the constraints, I am pretty sure that Chapel is the choice here -- that ability to trash cards 5-12 in your hand doesn't exactly add to the value of the card (though I have done Throne Room/Chapel to decent effect -- Tactician appreciated the help).

What's that, you have a KC-Torturer deck that just managed to get 10 Torturer plays off?

[SirPeebles]

Given the constraints, I am pretty sure that Chapel is the choice here -- that ability to trash cards 5-12 in your hand doesn't exactly add to the value of the card (though I have done Throne Room/Chapel to decent effect -- Tactician appreciated the help).

What's that, you have a KC-Torturer deck that just managed to get 10 Torturer plays off?

Followed up with a Minion 

[GendoIkari]

Given the constraints, I am pretty sure that Chapel is the choice here -- that ability to trash cards 5-12 in your hand doesn't exactly add to the value of the card (though I have done Throne Room/Chapel to decent effect -- Tactician appreciated the help).

What's that, you have a KC-Torturer deck that just managed to get 10 Torturer plays off?

Followed up with a Minion 

Followed by a surprise Moat, which wasn't revealed to the Torturer.

[shMerker]

Judging by the number of groans induced I'd say it's a tie between Scrying Pool and Spy.

[SirPeebles]

Given the constraints, I am pretty sure that Chapel is the choice here -- that ability to trash cards 5-12 in your hand doesn't exactly add to the value of the card (though I have done Throne Room/Chapel to decent effect -- Tactician appreciated the help).

What's that, you have a KC-Torturer deck that just managed to get 10 Torturer plays off?

Followed up with a Minion 

Followed by a surprise Moat, which wasn't revealed to the Torturer.

Followed by a Possession!

[greatexpectations]

What's that, you have a KC-Torturer deck that just managed to get 10 Torturer plays off?

Code: [Select]

--- tko's turn 11 ---
   tko plays a King's Court.
   ... and plays a King's Court.
   ... ... and plays a Torturer.
   ... ... ... drawing 3 cards.
   ... ... ... Wingnut gains a Curse in hand.
   ... ... and plays the Torturer again.
   ... ... ... drawing 2 cards.
   ... ... ... Wingnut gains a Curse in hand.
   ... ... and plays the Torturer a third time.
   ... ... ... drawing nothing.
   ... ... ... Wingnut gains a Curse in hand.
   ... and plays the King's Court again.
   ... ... and plays a Torturer.
   ... ... ... drawing nothing.
   ... ... ... Wingnut gains a Curse in hand.
   ... ... and plays the Torturer again.
   ... ... ... drawing nothing.
   ... ... ... Wingnut gains a Curse in hand.
   ... ... and plays the Torturer a third time.
   ... ... ... drawing nothing.
   ... ... ... Wingnut gains a Curse in hand.
   ... and plays the King's Court a third time.
   ... ... and plays a Chapel.
   ... ... ... trashing 2 Coppers.
   ... ... and plays the Chapel again.
   ... ... ... trashing nothing.
   ... ... and plays the Chapel a third time.
   ... ... ... trashing nothing.
   tko plays a Gold and 2 Silvers.
   tko buys a King's Court.
   (tko reshuffles.)
   (tko draws: a Gold, 2 King's Courts, and 2 Silvers.)

--- Wingnut's turn 12 ---
Wingnut plays a King's Court.
... and plays a Chapel.
... ... trashing 4 Curses.
... and plays the Chapel again.
... ... trashing 3 Curses and a Copper.
... and plays the Chapel a third time.
... ... trashing nothing.
Wingnut plays a Contraband.
... tko prohibits Wingnut from buying Platinums.
Wingnut buys a Silver.
(Wingnut reshuffles.)
(Wingnut draws: a Contraband, a Torturer, a Gold, a Silver, and a Copper.)
greatest iso moments of 2011 candidate.

[GendoIkari]

Given the constraints, I am pretty sure that Chapel is the choice here -- that ability to trash cards 5-12 in your hand doesn't exactly add to the value of the card (though I have done Throne Room/Chapel to decent effect -- Tactician appreciated the help).

What's that, you have a KC-Torturer deck that just managed to get 10 Torturer plays off?

Followed up with a Minion 

Followed by a surprise Moat, which wasn't revealed to the Torturer.

Followed by a Possession!

GG!

[SirPeebles]

Given the constraints, I am pretty sure that Chapel is the choice here -- that ability to trash cards 5-12 in your hand doesn't exactly add to the value of the card (though I have done Throne Room/Chapel to decent effect -- Tactician appreciated the help).

What's that, you have a KC-Torturer deck that just managed to get 10 Torturer plays off?

Followed up with a Minion 

Followed by a surprise Moat, which wasn't revealed to the Torturer.

Followed by a Possession!

GG!

Unfortunately you weren't the player to my left?

[DG]

It's quite sad when the Goko bots do play King's Court with a trading post.

[michaeljb]

Sometimes King's Courting a Throne Room is just plain worse than Throne Rooming the King's Court.

Isn't it usually better to Throne Room the King's Court?

KC-TR: play three cards, two times each; total of 5 cards played to get 8 plays (1 for TR, 1 for KC, plus 6 for the cards you're "really" playing)

TR-KC: play two cards, three times each; total of 4 cards played to get 8 plays

[HiveMindEmulator]

Sometimes King's Courting a Throne Room is just plain worse than Throne Rooming the King's Court.

Isn't it usually better to Throne Room the King's Court?

KC-TR: play three cards, two times each; total of 5 cards played to get 8 plays (1 for TR, 1 for KC, plus 6 for the cards you're "really" playing)

TR-KC: play two cards, three times each; total of 4 cards played to get 8 plays

Of course it depends on what the cards are and how many you have. Sometimes, for example you need some +Actions, but you don't want to KC the Pearl Diver, and would rather Throne it and Throne 2 other cards. But yeah, I think usually it's better to throne the KC because you are limited by how many copies of the really good cards you have in your deck.

[Lekkit]

Treasure Map.

[shMerker]

PLEASE READ THE OP BEFORE POSTING YOUR WRITE-IN

[Lekkit]

Have you read the Best target thread? It was filled with "King's Court, obviously!".

[GendoIkari]

Have you read the Best target thread? It was filled with "King's Court, obviously!".

Yeah, I was surprised at first, but I realize now that it's the fault of the way polls are laid out... the post you make along with the poll doesn't look like part of the poll at all, it just looks like a response that someone made to the poll. So it's not so surprising that people wouldn't read it; not everyone reads all the posts before replying... they are just replying to the poll itself, which is lacking that info.

[Tables]

Really don't get why Chapel is beating Trading Post or Madman... Chapel is occasionally useful to KC and it never hurts. Trading Post will kill your hand, Madman is a waste; both of those are usually worse to KC than to just play them. Chapel can't be.