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Author Topic: Fan Card: Fishing Well  (Read 2678 times)

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Schlippy

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Fan Card: Fishing Well
« on: September 02, 2012, 02:02:24 pm »
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A card that only draws you the cards that you want is incredibly hard to balance. Either it is far too strong/cheap as a non-terminal or utterly useless in a lot of cases as a terminal.
So I tinkered around with the idea of a Wishing Well that always draws you the card that you wished for (if you have it in your deck). I knew it was very powerful, so it started at $7. Turned out it was overpowered (a lot, like you would not believe). So it lost the extra card that Wishing well gives you. Still strong, but certainly not worth $7 in many cases. (Though, still worth $7 in a few games.)
Because of that and the fact that $7 is a relatively swingy cost I lowered it to $5. Turned out it was too strong again. So I introduced some sort of downside. Hey, it is a well, and people like to throw their change into wells.

I am not really sure yet where this card stands now. The two Coppers you'll probably gain when buying this might look like a huge downside, but they aren't all that bad. They certainly hurt you, sure, but on the other side you can skip Coppers in your deck with the card anyways. The main downside really is that your enemies lose Coppers.


Fishing Well
Action - $5

+1 Action
Name any card. Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal a copy of the card you named. Put it into your hand and discard the other cards.
--------------------
When you gain this, each other player may trash up to 2 Coppers from his hand. Gain 2 of the Coppers they trashed this way.


So what do you think? Should this go down the drain or do you think it is fine?
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 02:03:43 pm by Schlippy »
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ashersky

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Re: Fan Card: Fishing Well
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2012, 02:05:37 pm »
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I am not really sure yet where this card stands now. The two Coppers you'll probably gain when buying this might look like a huge downside, but they aren't all that bad. They certainly hurt you, sure, but on the other side you can skip Coppers in your deck with the card anyways.


Fishing Well
Action - $5

+1 Action
Name any card. Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal a copy of the card you named. Put it into your hand and discard the other cards.
--------------------
When you gain this, each other player may trash up to 2 Coppers from his hand. Gain 2 of the Coppers they trashed this way.


So what do you think? Should this go down the drain or do you think it is fine?

Imagine multi-player, though.  Is it worth a possible 2-10 (1-5 other players) coppers depending on the number of players?  I think that's the way to look at it.
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Schlippy

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Re: Fan Card: Fishing Well
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2012, 02:17:08 pm »
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You'll only gain 2 Coppers, no matter how many Coppers get trashed.
Unless of course all other players together trash less than 2 Coppers. In that case you'll gain 0 or 1 Copper.
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razorborne

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Re: Fan Card: Fishing Well
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2012, 03:04:41 pm »
+1

the drawback makes no sense with the card.
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Hks

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Re: Fan Card: Fishing Well
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2012, 03:15:21 pm »
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Fishing Well... doesn't sound right. My head want it to read "Wishing Well" :P
The action itself sounds ok.
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Fan Card: Fishing Well
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2012, 07:46:23 pm »
+1

I'm not a fan of the drawback. It feels very tacked-on. If you were having balancing issues, did you consider having the card hunted for trashed?

"Name a card. Reveal cards from the top of your deck until revealing the named card. Set that card aside and discard the rest. You may play that card this turn. If you do, trash it. Otherwise, discard it during your clean-up phase."

Mecherath

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Re: Fan Card: Fishing Well
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2012, 12:49:04 am »
+1

The drawback would actually be nice and thematic if this was a Wishing Well.  The other players throw coins in when you gain it, and you have to take them.

Of course that name is already taken. ;)

Going with the coins for wishes theme though, it would be neat to have to trash a treasure to activate it.  I don't know what that would do to the cost.  I mean sure, 7 times at least you're throwing in copper that you don't even want, but eventually you'd have to buy more fuel for it.
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loppo

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Re: Fan Card: Fishing Well
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2012, 06:52:40 am »
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how about naming it "fountain of wisdom"?
-------------------------------------------
trash a coin

Name any card. Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal a copy of the card you named. Put it into your hand and discard the other cards.
-------------------------------------------
that would be very thematic. I fancy this is a very powerful card. Maybe you can balance this by trashing the named card after it has been played (as suggested by Mecherath)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 08:48:39 am by loppo »
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Mecherath

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Re: Fan Card: Fishing Well
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2012, 09:10:08 am »
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Trashing the coin to pay for the wish is mine.  Trashing the card you name was Rush_Clasic.  I think both drawbacks is a bit much (though trashing copper isn't much of one, of course).
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Schlippy

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Re: Fan Card: Fishing Well
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2012, 09:45:43 am »
+1

Rush_Clasic's idea is actually an extremely good starting-point for making it non-terminal but not useless for non-big money boards. It needs slightly different wording and mechanics though, because you actually can't play Victory cards or Curses. I also do not want the card to be able to play Treasure cards outside of your buy phase like Black Market does.

I'll do some tests on the "has to be fueled by something"-theme and this semi-terminal version:

Fountain of Wisdom

Name any card. Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you revealed a copy of the card you named. If it is an action card, you may play it. If you do, trash it. Otherwise put it into your hand and discard the other revealed cards.

Cost: $5
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