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[Captain_Frisk]

Semi caught up.  As per usual I was away this weekend (I won a 3 player game of twilight imperium if you want specifics), and this game is too large for me to be as involved as other games.  There are still 20 people alive!

RobZ - we need a vote count.  I enjoyed Galz's case on themunch, and would be interested / willing to vote, but while it looks like he has "alot" of votes, I don't want to accidentally hammer.

Can someone summarize the asher case?

[TheMunch]

I enjoyed Galz's case on me too, but I'm curious if you actually think that I was defending Grujah and why (probably the biggest problem I have with his case; I never defended Grujah)?  Also whether my defense of Galz' argument has mattered at all?

[Captain_Frisk]

I enjoyed Galz's case on me too, but I'm curious if you actually think that I was defending Grujah and why (probably the biggest problem I have with his case; I never defended Grujah)?  Also whether my defense of Galz' argument has mattered at all?

Ok, that Grujah lynch is really picking up speed. L-4.

The part of me that wants the longest day ever to be over with is fighting with the part of me that thinks Grujah is town and therefore a bad lynch.

I agree with this.  Although my read on Grujah isnt town, its nothing.

Vote: TheMunch

[TheMunch]

Serious Question:  How did I defend Grujah in that post?

[Captain_Frisk]

You're expressing concern about the speed of the wagon (ie. it must be scum driven to be gaining traction so fast!), while doing your best to not say anything about him that can be held against you later when he flips scum.

[TheMunch]

I think I was agreeing with the notion that he wanted the day to be over (I think in nearby posts I was also expressing some other feelings of being overwhelmed by how much had happened and how difficult it was becoming to analyze 50+ pages of content.  This is in 1442 "This shit is hard".  I agree with Joth after this in 1458, hence it is more likely that I'm telling the truth and just agreeing with his desire for the day to be early because I had already expressed this opinion).  He expressed wanting the day to be over but not knowing whether or not he was willing to vote for Grujah (although he wasn't voting cause he had a town read on Grujah; I specifically indicated that that was not the case for me.  A neutral read is not a town read).  I similarly wanted the day to be over but I didn't have a read on Grujah; I expressed no desire for him NOT to be lynched or pushed attention elsewhere or tried to derail the wagon, I just didn't vote.  However I can see why there is some ambiguity regarding what I agree with (could have been agreeing with the speed of the wagon) but I think my explanation is corroborated by my feelings at the time expressed in adjacent posts.

[Insomniac]

Sorry I haven't been here guys it's Thanksgiving weekend up here in Canada. I don't have a lot to contribute that hasn't already been said, theres a lot of people in this game still and I appreciate the work that some people have been putting into this game with rereads and cases. If I were to vote right now it would be for TheMunch but I'm going to reread day 2 either today or tomorrow.

[Insomniac]

Additionally I wanted to say since I saw it that I do not think Robz would include cults, and I would agree to yuma's soft deadline of thursday.

[Captain_Frisk]

I'm also in favor with a Thursday soft deadline, for all of the reasons we discussed day 1.  We still have way to many people to reliably count on majority lynch

[Cuzz]

Noticed some people correctly pointing out my lack of activity on D2. Just popping in to say sorry for my absence. Combination of falling behind a bit, wanting to catch up fully before posting, and then getting super busy irl. Will catch up and be more involved beginning tonight.

[sparky5856]

To answer your couple of ?'s eHalc:

ashersky #1791 -- Have you not been reading the cases that have been posted?  If you believe people are sitting back, call them out. People are focused on you and Munch because you both have been quite scummy.  Your scumminess went way up when you basically started advocating giving people off wagon a pass.  Maybe you don't think that's what you're doing, but you are arguing that we should always lynch on wagon because it is smaller.  And that's just ridiculous.

My vote of ashersky is a result of his over-defensiveness and with him providing arguments such as like, "why is everyone going for me and the munch?" without providing much depth into strong alternatives. Posts such as #1791 that I pointed out signify that he hasn't provided much detail into his arguments.

[Robz888]

Vote Count 2.6

ashersky (4) -- Cuzz, watno, TheMunch, sparky5856
TheMunch (8 ) -- eHalcyon, ftl, Dsell, Galzria, ehunt, yuma, jotheonah, Captain_Frisk (L-3)
Dsell (1) -- Morgrim7
Young Nick (1) -- shraeye
Galzria (1) -- ashersky
ehunt (1) -- cayvie

Not Voting (5) -- Insomniac, Young Nick, Voltaire, Axxle, theorel

With 21 alive it takes 11 to lynch. Deadline is Sunday, October 15, at 10:00 PM (EDT).

[TheMunch]

Oh wow.  L-3.  Thats cool.  And L-2 if you include that Insomniac wantst to vote for me. So I guess its time to say this: if anyone tried to kill me night 1, then ehalcyon is scum.

[ehunt]

Oh wow.  L-3.  Thats cool.  And L-2 if you include that Insomniac wantst to vote for me. So I guess its time to say this: if anyone tried to kill me night 1, then ehalcyon is scum.

unvote

[Galzria]

Alright, given where we're at in the day, and it's potential to end before I get a chance to chime in again, it's time to reveal who I gave the WIFOM to:

Dsell

Yesterday when he pushed for my lynch, I really did get a town read from him, but I wanted to confirm it. Unfortunately, as stated, I did not choose to drink the Wine, while he did - so we did not exchange information. However, D2 dawned with me still alive, so there's a modicum of trust that I must have towards him. Had he been scum who was concerned with sharing information, he could've killed me during the night and the Wine never would've been revealed.

This is the primary reason I see TheMunch's total collection of actions more scummy than Dsell. When I wrote the case for Dsell, I knew it was harsh - but I wanted to be fair and truthful. As many noted at that time, it was pretty damning. But for me, the simple fact that I lived forces me to consider that he was "misguided townie" instead of "redirecting scum".

Certainly there are other factors that I may not be aware of. Maybe he DID attempt to kill me, but somebody Doctored me. Obviously I can't know - and I don't want to - but my hope is that through the nature of the Wine itself, the truth will come out.

I don't think it's wise for Dsell to announce who he will give the Wine to (He may have already submitted a name - I don't know), because I don't want to present a target on that players back. But it's important that we keep track of the item so that it doesn't slip into an infinite scum loop (ie. We force it to keep moving to a new player instead of letting scum secretly give it to each other each night).

My initial thought was that the current bearer each night (in this case Dsell) should be Doctored while the recipient is kept secret, thus maximizing the chances that both live to the next day to give accounts of the other player. However I am content to listen to other suggestions as well.

I think the one thing we can all agree on is that "Don't Drink" should be the default, and anybody who Drinks is obvscum - same as anybody who gives the Wine to eHunt.

[Dsell]

Alright, given where we're at in the day, and it's potential to end before I get a chance to chime in again, it's time to reveal who I gave the WIFOM to:

Dsell

Yesterday when he pushed for my lynch, I really did get a town read from him, but I wanted to confirm it. Unfortunately, as stated, I did not choose to drink the Wine, while he did - so we did not exchange information. However, D2 dawned with me still alive, so there's a modicum of trust that I must have towards him. Had he been scum who was concerned with sharing information, he could've killed me during the night and the Wine never would've been revealed.

This is the primary reason I see TheMunch's total collection of actions more scummy than Dsell. When I wrote the case for Dsell, I knew it was harsh - but I wanted to be fair and truthful. As many noted at that time, it was pretty damning. But for me, the simple fact that I lived forces me to consider that he was "misguided townie" instead of "redirecting scum".

Certainly there are other factors that I may not be aware of. Maybe he DID attempt to kill me, but somebody Doctored me. Obviously I can't know - and I don't want to - but my hope is that through the nature of the Wine itself, the truth will come out.

I don't think it's wise for Dsell to announce who he will give the Wine to (He may have already submitted a name - I don't know), because I don't want to present a target on that players back. But it's important that we keep track of the item so that it doesn't slip into an infinite scum loop (ie. We force it to keep moving to a new player instead of letting scum secretly give it to each other each night).

My initial thought was that the current bearer each night (in this case Dsell) should be Doctored while the recipient is kept secret, thus maximizing the chances that both live to the next day to give accounts of the other player. However I am content to listen to other suggestions as well.

I think the one thing we can all agree on is that "Don't Drink" should be the default, and anybody who Drinks is obvscum - same as anybody who gives the Wine to eHunt.

I confirm and agree with all of this.

[Captain_Frisk]

Galz - if you refused to drink, and endorse no-one else drinking it in the future, then who cares if it falls into a scum loop?

[ehunt]

Galz - if you refused to drink, and endorse no-one else drinking it in the future, then who cares if it falls into a scum loop?

my understanding is that drink vs. not-drink is not what's relevant. what's relevant is that you produce the same answer as the person to whom you gave the wine.

[Dsell]

Galz - if you refused to drink, and endorse no-one else drinking it in the future, then who cares if it falls into a scum loop?

my understanding is that drink vs. not-drink is not what's relevant. what's relevant is that you produce the same answer as the person to whom you gave the wine.

This is correct.

[Captain_Frisk]

But what if drinking has a side effect that requires kickball posting? 

[Galzria]

Galz - if you refused to drink, and endorse no-one else drinking it in the future, then who cares if it falls into a scum loop?

my understanding is that drink vs. not-drink is not what's relevant. what's relevant is that you produce the same answer as the person to whom you gave the wine.

Correct. It had been proposed that the default be 'Drink', but out of concern that it might be Cult-related we switched it to 'Don't Drink'. Ultimately it doesn't matter for the information to be shared, as long as the choice is the same.

[ftl]

Catching upppppp.......... man a lot happens fast here.

Galz's case on Munch is convincing, I'm keeping my vote there.

Thursday soft deadline is a good idea, it worked great last time.

Has Voltaire still not posted for all of D2? Robz, please prod Voltaire Plz nobody hammer until he posts, if he's still playing.

I'd rather have 'drink' rather than 'no drink' as a consensus for wine since come on, who doesn't want a drink after slogging through this many posts (<-- is not serious proposal, I'll go along with the no drink consensus. C_F, based on what I understand from the description, as long as both people choose the same option then it doesn't matter what option it was)

OK so maybe not a lot happens fast here, there' been like so many pages but they didn't change my opinions on who to vote for, Munch looks super-scummy to me after Galz's case. ash's D1 doesn't look good but today he looks sort of like a flailing townie to me, more so than munch.

[Axxle]

struggling a bit to keep up, but I still think it's a bad idea to keep the wine in the game.  I do not believe revealing role information to people of unknown alignment is a protown move.

[Captain_Frisk]

Munch - can you explain your ehalc thing?  A vague hint isn't really enough to make me unvote.

[Robz888]

Catching upppppp.......... man a lot happens fast here.

Galz's case on Munch is convincing, I'm keeping my vote there.

Thursday soft deadline is a good idea, it worked great last time.

Has Voltaire still not posted for all of D2? Robz, please prod Voltaire Plz nobody hammer until he posts, if he's still playing.

I'd rather have 'drink' rather than 'no drink' as a consensus for wine since come on, who doesn't want a drink after slogging through this many posts (<-- is not serious proposal, I'll go along with the no drink consensus. C_F, based on what I understand from the description, as long as both people choose the same option then it doesn't matter what option it was)

OK so maybe not a lot happens fast here, there' been like so many pages but they didn't change my opinions on who to vote for, Munch looks super-scummy to me after Galz's case. ash's D1 doesn't look good but today he looks sort of like a flailing townie to me, more so than munch.

I am evaluating options in the Voltaire situation.