Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Galzria]

((That's the Mafia Leaderboard - completely unrelated to this game specifically))

[Dsell]

Possibly important to note that that only includes "normal" games. So no bastard or role madness games.

This is TheMunch's first overall game on the site though, I believe.

I agree with Galz on what he says, especially about Dsell. I think Dsell saying scum wouldnt defend their buddy that much makes it more likely that he actually is scum doing so.

So then why would I say that as scum? Scum doesn't want to look scummy or even suspicious at all. As scum, I would never want to do something that's gonna put me under heavy scrutiny on D1 or D2, because it is just not necessary. As town, sometimes you can't help it. I mean, you'll probably call WIFOM on this, and it's a whole lot of WIFOM. But ask yourself whether I, as scum, would choose to do something SUPER scummy (with only a small chance of actually saving a teammate) and rely on WIFOM to save me OR whether I would do something (bus grujah), which, if done convincingly, would most likely let me get through day 2 just fine. (Well we couldn't know which you'd choose to do, Dsell, because WIFOM!!)

[Axxle]

Correct Lynch %77.7...
I am so smrt!

Winrate: %33.3...
Doh!

[ftl]

Man, that spreadsheet overstates my win % because it doesn't count role madness games. I feel pressured to vote right now.

Anyway, rereading D1 ashersky, he seems townier than munch to me. Munch's posts were just longer, but just end up being more confusing, not less scummy. So I'm keeping my vote where it is. I'll get to rereading Dsell... sometime...

[eHalcyon]

So then why would I say that as scum? Scum doesn't want to look scummy or even suspicious at all. As scum, I would never want to do something that's gonna put me under heavy scrutiny on D1 or D2, because it is just not necessary. As town, sometimes you can't help it. I mean, you'll probably call WIFOM on this, and it's a whole lot of WIFOM. But ask yourself whether I, as scum, would choose to do something SUPER scummy (with only a small chance of actually saving a teammate) and rely on WIFOM to save me OR whether I would do something (bus grujah), which, if done convincingly, would most likely let me get through day 2 just fine. (Well we couldn't know which you'd choose to do, Dsell, because WIFOM!!)

Maybe because you didn't think it would seem scummy.

This argument doesn't work because anyone can apply to any scummy action that anyone commits.  In the end, it just becomes a license for all scum to be scummy and get away with it.

[Dsell]

So then why would I say that as scum? Scum doesn't want to look scummy or even suspicious at all. As scum, I would never want to do something that's gonna put me under heavy scrutiny on D1 or D2, because it is just not necessary. As town, sometimes you can't help it. I mean, you'll probably call WIFOM on this, and it's a whole lot of WIFOM. But ask yourself whether I, as scum, would choose to do something SUPER scummy (with only a small chance of actually saving a teammate) and rely on WIFOM to save me OR whether I would do something (bus grujah), which, if done convincingly, would most likely let me get through day 2 just fine. (Well we couldn't know which you'd choose to do, Dsell, because WIFOM!!)

Maybe because you didn't think it would seem scummy.

This argument doesn't work because anyone can apply to any scummy action that anyone commits.  In the end, it just becomes a license for all scum to be scummy and get away with it.

I'm not saying that we should excuse scummy behavior, I'm just asking you to honestly assess whether you think I  deliberately chose to do something extremely scummy when the option of doing something that's very townie-looking was just as viable...or if I am telling the truth and just made a pretty terrible mistake as town.

I expect this is the last I'll defend myself on this issue. I completely understand that I'll get a lot of suspicion, and I can't do much about that at this point. Hopefully you don't choose to lynch me, but from here on out I'm going to just scumhunt so that hopefully we can lynch scum or at least the town will have some reads to go off of if I'm lynched. I'm probably not gonna be able to do anything major until at least later tonight.

[Axxle]

Vote: Shraeye

A quick look through shows that shraeye was never really acknowledged the Grujah wagon as it was happening.  I also felt that shraeye was independently scummy yesterday.  I'm happy with this vote for now.

[Axxle]

TheMunch also seems to be latching on to Galz's read on DSell.  I think he was able to smell that Galz's upcoming long post on his strongest scum read was him.

[Axxle]

TheMunch also seems to be latching on to Galz's read on DSell.  I think he was able to smell that Galz's upcoming long post on his strongest scum read was him.

(I know I did)

[Axxle]

Unvote

I just realized that scum would probably be trying to actively stop a wagon on their PR.

[shraeye]

Unvote

I just realized that scum would probably be trying to actively stop a wagon on their PR.

This is a good point.  I can off the top of my head remember that Dsell and YoungNick both were trying to actively stop the Grujah wagon (to varying degrees and at different times I feel).  Who else at some point tried to discourage the wagon?

[Cuzz]

Unvote

I just realized that scum would probably be trying to actively stop a wagon on their PR.

This is a good point.  I can off the top of my head remember that Dsell and YoungNick both were trying to actively stop the Grujah wagon (to varying degrees and at different times I feel).  Who else at some point tried to discourage the wagon?

Ashersky with his no lynch idea.

[ashersky]

Unvote

I just realized that scum would probably be trying to actively stop a wagon on their PR.

This is a good point.  I can off the top of my head remember that Dsell and YoungNick both were trying to actively stop the Grujah wagon (to varying degrees and at different times I feel).  Who else at some point tried to discourage the wagon?

Ashersky with his no lynch idea.

It wasn't like I was pushing the idea.  Just thinking it through with the group.  Clearly the lynch was preferred by me (and all).

Why does the assumption that Glooble was the kill target out of the so lovers seem to be favored?  Does no one think anyone would want to kill O?  I think a look back at O associations would be useful.

[eHalcyon]

Unvote

I just realized that scum would probably be trying to actively stop a wagon on their PR.

This is a good point.  I can off the top of my head remember that Dsell and YoungNick both were trying to actively stop the Grujah wagon (to varying degrees and at different times I feel).  Who else at some point tried to discourage the wagon?

Ashersky with his no lynch idea.

It wasn't like I was pushing the idea.  Just thinking it through with the group.  Clearly the lynch was preferred by me (and all).

Why does the assumption that Glooble was the kill target out of the so lovers seem to be favored?  Does no one think anyone would want to kill O?  I think a look back at O associations would be useful.

Serious question -- does it really matter who was shot?

[Dsell]

Alright, I'm rereading TheMunch's posts and he is SO. SCUMMY. I realize that Galz has a forthcoming post that is going to expound on this, but I'm sure this case will not be hard to build. Vote: TheMunch

And I'm not even finished rereading him yet. I'll still reread others but at this point I rather doubt I'll find anyone scummier.

[Dsell]

During day 1, Munch tended to be really trigger-happy with his votes, and yet he defended Grujah and even chainsaw-defense-voted Glooble (Is that the right term there? He voted for Glooble for voting for Grujah.), who of course is now confirmed town.

[TheMunch]

Nice OMGUS vote there dsell!  Actually I dont care about OMGUS.  I never knew it was thing and I still dont know why it would be a particularly scummy thing to do. 

Regardless, I'll address my Glooble vote.  Yes I have been pretty trigger happy with my votes.  I dont think I went in with the mindset of just voting everywhere but I would say I am developing a playstyle of voting where my suspicions are.  I went back and looked at my case on Glooble and all it was was me going "hey, you're changing your vote around without saying why.  Whats up?"  Note, this had to do with the way he was voting, not who he was voting for (Did you actually read my posts, Dsell? Because then you would have seen that my vote on Glooble had nothing to do with him voting for Grujah specifically, just the way in which he went about doing it.  Frankly it just seems like you are trying to paint me as scum when nothing scummy happened). 

I dont think I've obfuscated the fact that I dont like when people do things for no reason.  I like reasons.  Logic hits home with me more than emotions and reactionary voting.  But the case on Glooble didn't stick around; if anything I was just using my vote to call him out, town or not.  Ok, he was town; I would have still called him out for it.  I changed my vote as soon as there was something else to care about (my next vote was the Yuma wagon).

[Morgrim7]

Hi guys! Sorry I've been gone. I've been replaced/modkilled no doubt?

[ehunt]

Hi guys! Sorry I've been gone. I've been replaced/modkilled no doubt?

No, you're in, say stuff.

[Morgrim7]

Hi guys! Sorry I've been gone. I've been replaced/modkilled no doubt?

No, you're in, say stuff.

  you've got to be kidding. awesome!

[Morgrim7]

Ok guys. Read day two. It is 11:00 p.m. here so if nothing I say makes sense, forgve me.
Many people have almost confirmed themselves town, like Galz, maybe eHunt.
I'm gonna Vote: Dsell because of Galz's compelling case against him. And because of this:

Alright, I'm rereading TheMunch's posts and he is SO. SCUMMY. I realize that Galz has a forthcoming post that is going to expound on this, but I'm sure this case will not be hard to build. Vote: TheMunch

And I'm not even finished rereading him yet. I'll still reread others but at this point I rather doubt I'll find anyone scummier.

that was...um...yeah. No. All right, my eyelids are falling. goodnight

[Young Nick]

Robz, could we get a vote-count, please?

[TheMunch]

I just did a reread of Young Nick for funsies.  I went with the argument that its easier to do a reread of someone who hasn't posted that often.  I can say this is pretty true and I got a pretty strong scum read on him.  He has posted very few things of content (lots of complaining that there is too much to read) but the posts that did have content were very interesting.  Namely post 1440 and his response in 1602.

yuma, how can you go on Grujah like that when there are so many people who are not adding too much to the game. Unless you think this is just unusual for Grujah. If you're supporting a lynch-all-lurkers meta, please, go for someone else like me, Glooble, or ibgtennis.

Hopefully significant analysis coming tonight. I know, I know.

Why go for one of the others over Grujah?  Serious question.

Sorry I missed this. What I was saying is that this seemed like too easy of an excuse to jump on the wagon. I was not aware of the posting patterns of Grujah (post after someone votes him) at the time. To me, it looked like you were just hedging and voting him because he was a lurker. Why any of the others? Because Grujah had provided some content over the course of the day. ibgtennis had not. I had provided minimal.

I can understand Grujah over Glooble (they were contributing equal amounts in my mind; it makes sense that you can see their butting heads as one being scum and the other not), but I still think it would have made more sense to lynch me or ibgtennis or O.

tl;dr: If you are going to lynch a lurker, then lynch one of the true lurkers. ibgtennis is the only one I see who is still posting way, way too infrequently.

Ex post facto it is interesting to see that one of his proposed lurker lynch targets was Glooble.  Yet in his defense to eHal he said he could understand voting Grujah over Glooble (contradiction) and then giving a list of lynches that he thinks make more sense (also including on that list a new individual, O who interestingly would have still gotten Glooble killed).  The fact that his contradiction regards someone who is known to flip town makes me rather suspicious.

[Young Nick]

I could understand one choosing Grujah over Glooble in their mini-battles.
I could understand one choosing Glooble over Grujah in their mini-battles.

I understand how one could have chosen either in the moment.

In retrospect, clearly, those who chose Grujah were correct. I was explaining my logic at the time.

[shraeye]

Unvote

I just realized that scum would probably be trying to actively stop a wagon on their PR.

This is a good point.  I can off the top of my head remember that Dsell and YoungNick both were trying to actively stop the Grujah wagon (to varying degrees and at different times I feel).  Who else at some point tried to discourage the wagon?

Ashersky with his no lynch idea.

It wasn't like I was pushing the idea.  Just thinking it through with the group.  Clearly the lynch was preferred by me (and all).

But bringing it up at all is a bit more suspicious than not mentioning it at all.  Even if you don't push it, to remind people of that extra option and encouraging people to think about whether it's good or not is a way to subtly tell people it's good.  As I read your original post (embedded below) it really looks like you were giving the pros to a no-lynch idea, while saying "I don't mean to sound like I don't want to lynch someone".

You responded to my question day 1 saying that you still thought we should get a lynch but that you were "tossing out an alternate idea".  Yes you tossed out that idea, and then proceeded to make some arguments for that idea.  Sounds like an implicit endorsement to me.  I'm suspicious, sir.

Can I ask a question of the group?

Is it possible that, in a game this size, with the unknown plethora of roles, that a no lynch may in fact be helpful?

Here's my thinking: we've all complained to some degree about the size of this thing, right?  Lynching only reduces the size by one, and the lynch will offer limited information.  On the flip side, it's possible the night will result in way more information to discuss, and could cull the herd by more than one.

I don't mean to sound like I don't want to lynch someone, or even that there aren't reasonable targets.  It's more that I'm wondering and would like to hear from others on the idea of taking this game into the night phase sooner rather than later, via a majority no lynch vote, since we can't seem to come to agreement on a lynch.

If the lynch for the sake of info argument can be made, I think a no lynch for the sake of night info can be made as well.

Are you saying "we're going to get a lot more information from nightkills, so let's not lynch" I know you're not actively suggesting it, but that sounds like a terrible argument to even consider.  It just sounds like you think lynching someone will somehow stop NK information.  I'd prefer both, please.

For the record, I think we should get a lynch today.  I was just tossing out an alternate idea, basically given the size of this town, the length of this day, etc.  I don't think a lynch affects what happens at night, but do think analyzing night stuff will probably add a lot more content than analyzing a policy/plurality lynch.