@shraeye #1650
I don't put much stock in your point 1. It's easy to call out lurking. As scum, I generally would be very happy to point out how all of my teammates are suspicion in some way. The key is not making a big deal of it. Pointing it out when there is no momentum on a case gives an iota of town cred in my books. Actually pushing through the case means more to me.
Point 2 is fair and point 3 is null.
I disagree with your thought that the lynch isn't informational. Review my initial big post of today (#1585, and some in subsequent posts, especially #1590). I point out lots of interactions, many of which you have missed. And still almost nobody has commented on any of it. You keep on accusing me of tunneling, but I respectfully disagree. I picked on a bunch of players for scummy interaction with Grujah (that is, mild defenses and such) and suspicious behaviour when the wagon picked up speed (trying to slow down the wagon, trying to start a different one on a terrible target).
I am not at all tunnelling on Munch. I looked at many players and Munch is simply the one who comes out looking scummiest. shraeye, what is it about Munch's play that gives you a town read? Galzria expressed town read on him on day 1 but now he says that town read is gone. You say you have a town read on him too. For what reason? I don't see any.
I guess I'll respond to #1608 now, since people don't seem to want to speak up.
I'm not sure who was taking Munch's post as an "attack on the wagoners", but I did not go that far. My point was that Munch was analysing the wagon and complaining there was no info to be gleaned... and that's wrong. There is tons of info, and analysing the wagon is the wrong way to get at it. You look
around the wagon. I already did a bunch of it. But Munch's sentiment seems to be that those on the wagon should get no town cred at all, and that's plain backwards thinking.
I agree that the "he's not happy" argument is dumb.
On the third paragraph -- shraeye,
you're wrong. You just put together a post looking at the subtlety of Grujah's interaction with ashersky. He voted and then unvoted, then later said that ashersky seemed less scummy on re-read. You called it distancing, and said it was suspicious. But note that Grujah didn't just say, "ashersky totally doesn't look scummy anymore!" Grujah said "ashersky looks less scummy... only as scummy as other people who did slightly suspicious thing."
This is exactly what Munch was doing in the post I quoted. "He doesn't seem so scummy, though I don't have a townread either". It's distancing. It's subtle defense, but it's still defense.
To give another example -- in MVI I was Mafia with Ozle and Captain_Frisk. Early on day 2, Ozle came under fire. It was pretty bad. Did I jump to his defense? No. But I tried to ease suspicion on him. I tried to make him seem less scummy, tried to come up with explanations for weird behaviour. But I always prefaced that I wasn't sure, that I could be wrong. I never expressed a strong town read on him, but I tried to cast doubt on arguments against him. Closer to the end, when it really looked like Ozle was going to go down, I changed my tune. But I was reluctant and I still acted very cautious about it. (It all got very messy soon after, but that part of the story isn't relevant.)
Does all that sound familiar? It should. I'll let you connect the dots.
I take issue with your last paragraph. Have you actually read through my posts, or are you just shying away because it's bigger than most? I say again, I have not been tunnelling. I have looked at many other players, presented plenty of info, and the result of my analysis leaves Munch looking the most suspicious. He is
not the only one I have mentioned.
I don't know why you are making it seem like Munch and I are at each others' throats. As far as I can see, Munch has not levelled any case against me. That's because there isn't one. But there
is a strong case against Munch, which I have presented.
Likewise, you call my arguments
the longest "you mischaracterized me" "No, you mischaracterized me" "NO, you mischaracterized me!" hissy-fit i've ever been a witness to.
I disagree completely. Munch has not only mischaracterized me, he has also done the same to several other players. Several times. Even after they clarified themselves. I also don't believe I have misrepresented Munch's statements. Can you point out examples? The only one I can think of is the Grujah defense, and I have explained clearly why I interpret it as such.
I am all for looking at other players. I have provided a good starting point for examining the info we have based on the wagon. People have not yet to take it up or pursue those cases. For myself, I think there is an excellent case against Munch and I'm not going to drop it because someone says they have a town read on him without any backing reasons.