Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[ashersky]

Vote: ashersky for proposing no lynch as the Grujah wagon began to take off.

Can I ask a question of the group?

Is it possible that, in a game this size, with the unknown plethora of roles, that a no lynch may in fact be helpful?

Here's my thinking: we've all complained to some degree about the size of this thing, right?  Lynching only reduces the size by one, and the lynch will offer limited information.  On the flip side, it's possible the night will result in way more information to discuss, and could cull the herd by more than one.

I don't mean to sound like I don't want to lynch someone, or even that there aren't reasonable targets.  It's more that I'm wondering and would like to hear from others on the idea of taking this game into the night phase sooner rather than later, via a majority no lynch vote, since we can't seem to come to agreement on a lynch.

If the lynch for the sake of info argument can be made, I think a no lynch for the sake of night info can be made as well.

WE LYNCHED SCUM D1 WOOOOOOOO!

Yeah, saw this coming once Grujah flipped.  I will note that I was voting for a lynch, not "no-lynch" at day's end, so it wasn't like I was really pushing for it.  I preferred lynching, and especially mafia!  I've been in both games with D1 scum lynches now.  Oh yeah!

I agree that joth trying to steer everyone away from the wagon is ultra-scummy, and will vote: joth as well.  Especially since, of course, he was on the wagon, so it's a deflect away from himself.

[Galzria]

Alright, now that I know I'm alive, time to take the time to traipse through this thread. (Ten (...eleven?) Words beginning with "T" in a row. Impressive.).

The people voting for Joth right now however are being ridiculous. What he said is spot on. It makes so much more sense to look at Grujah's associations - off the wagon particularly - first. I won't go so far as to call you all scummy for your votes on him, but seriously - don't get cocky over our successful lynch of Grujah. It took time and effort to pick him our, and in particular it did NOT take opportunistic or hasty play. So cool your jets.

[Young Nick]

Yeah the fact that there are three votes on him is just silly.

Obviously he was a bit facetious with his comments, but cut him some slack.

Also, I think Glooble was targeted and O was the lover-death. I say this because Glooble was listed before O was. Then again, the three kills were all down alphabetically, so that could be how Robz intended to order it. It may not be much to go on, but it is something.

[Robz888]

Yeah the fact that there are three votes on him is just silly.

Obviously he was a bit facetious with his comments, but cut him some slack.

Also, I think Glooble was targeted and O was the lover-death. I say this because Glooble was listed before O was. Then again, the three kills were all down alphabetically, so that could be how Robz intended to order it. It may not be much to go on, but it is something.

The kills were indeed listed alphabetically.

[Young Nick]

Notice how the sly Robz doesn't mention whether that was intentional or not. Yeah, Robz, we knew they were alphabetical, I just pointed it out, duh.

(I think it's pretty clear that he meant that it was intentional to list kills in alphabetical, but hooray for being pedantic.)

[Robz888]

Notice how the sly Robz doesn't mention whether that was intentional or not. Yeah, Robz, we knew they were alphabetical, I just pointed it out, duh.

(I think it's pretty clear that he meant that it was intentional to list kills in alphabetical, but hooray for being pedantic.)

I promise I'm not being tricky. I deliberately listed the kills in alphabetical order. There is no info to be gained from an analysis of the order.

[Axxle]

It seems to me that O was killed by a vig.  We were calling people like him a vig target.

[Robz888]

Vote Count 2.1

ashersky (1) -- Cuzz
jotheonah (3) -- shraeye, TheMunch, ashersky

Not Voting (17) -- Ftl, sparky5856, Insomniac, Dsell, Jotheonah, Young Nick, Voltaire, Axxle, Cayvie, Yuma, ibgtennis, Morgrim7, EHalcyon, Watno, Galzria, Captain_Frisk, ehunt

With 21 alive it takes 11 to lynch. Deadline is Sunday, October 15, at 10:00 PM (EDT).

[cayvie]

It seems to me that O was killed by a vig.  We were calling people like him a vig target.

we were?

[cayvie]

It seems to me that O was killed by a vig.  We were calling people like him a vig target.

we were?

I sure hope not.

I'm kind of afraid I got O killed with sloppy play, actually.

The reason I unvoted O awkwardly yesterday was because I thought I saw an O-style power role breadcrumb. Of course, as soon as I unvoted, I realized I was just drawing more attention toward O, which was absolutely not what I wanted to do. At that point I was in a bind; I couldn't explain myself without outing a potential power role, but I couldn't not explain myself without looking hella scummy.

Sorry if I got you killed, O!

[Insomniac]

I definitely think O was the vig kill and that the jo wagon is ridiculous.

[cayvie]

He must really not like you then, uh? What else do you know?

I know you all aren't going to end up lynching me, and this lurker-hunt has done nothing but spawn several contentless pages.

This is the post I took as a breadcrumb.

I really think a scum team of some sort noticed it too, possibly alerted by my clumsiness, and killed him last night.

[eHalcyon]

The night was so long I have seriously forgotten the day.

Will re-read later.  I agree with jo that looking off-wagon is better, and I find the people who immediately jumped on him for that statement to be rather scummy for it.  sparky looks a little more townie to me from #1524. 

I still get bad vibes from Munch, and his jumping on jo just makes it worse.  For someone so concerned on day 1 about lynching for info, his treatment of the info we have seems odd.  The wagon is a clear partition; why would you NOT give townie points to people who successfully lynched scum?  And, to my recollection, that was in the face of a good amount of doubt from some people (and these people definitely need to be looked into).

Some bad vibes from shraeye as well.  I remember having some misgivings about him early day 1, though they faded away over time.  They're back again though.  As sparky points out, shraeye is very much misrepresenting jo.  His post #1512 does not at all say "definitely no scum on the wagon".  He explicitly notes that "not all are clear".  It's weird how he jumps at the possibility of "a whole heap of non-mafia scum" -- scum is scum, town doesn't care whether they are mafia or otherwise, and those on the wagon absolutely have more town cred than those who were not.  Finally, shraeye's concern over being a Morgrim-pusher smells fishy, like panicked scum.

Not sure how I feel about ashersky as the third quick vote on jo.  I don't remember having bad vibes from him on day 1, but I may have simply forgotten it.



All that said, I kind of recall jo himself jumping on the Morgrim wagon.  Definitely need to re-read.




Re: Axxle's 1531, I don't see how we ever called O a good vig-target.  Morgrim was the one.

I think more likely is that Glooble was shot, either by a vig or by scum trying to hit other scum.  Gloob was a lurker, after all.



I don't think there is any evidence of multiple scum teams right now.  It looks like there were two shots fired (since O and Gloob are connected), and the second death could be vig or SK, not necessarily another team.

Conspiracy theory would be that there were indeed more shots, and that two (or more) landed on Glooble and O.  O was one-shot doc; in his position, I would definitely have used that power on Glooble.  Given his lurking (and notorious reputation as scum in previous games), he would absolutely be an attractive target for vig or scumhunting scum.




I don't think Coppersmith matters much.  Will speculate briefly though.  Conspiracy theories and such.  There are four bodies but only one card, so where did the other three cards go?  Well, since Glooble and O were lovers, I would guess that Coppersmith belonged to one of them.  The other cards were perhaps collected by their killers; Grujah's might have gone to the hammer.

Or alternatively, Grujah was the only one not killed during the night, so he was Coppersmith?





Anyway, we have info now and we should use it.  The current case on jo is garbage.  Examination of day 1 interaction and wagons is where it's at.

[Axxle]

I dont remember anyone calling out O, but we did say that lurkers were a great target i think

[ehunt]

I think Glooble was a scum-kill and O's death was from the lover effect. Eevee I think could be a vig-kill but is more likely a kill by a second scum-faction. Certainly if the recruiting faction of which eevee warned has a kill (which seems imba) then they killed eevee.

Glooble was the player whom I thought was town for role-related reasons yesterday*. That's why I sheeped his Grujah-read (and his O read, which makes a whole lot more sense now). I was trying to be subtle about it, but it's possible that scum noticed that my reasoning for voting Grujah was thinly articulated and deduced that it was related to my role-posting earlier. Even if the kill has nothing to do with roles, Glooble is still a decent choice for a scum-kill since he was first on the Grujah wagon.

*If I was wrong about that, or if somebody else has obtained "the item," please don't give it to me . If someone gives me the item, the item will leave the game permanently, so I will assume anyone giving me the item is scum, since the item is town-oriented.

[TheMunch]

I think I was pretty clear why Joth gave me a bad vibe.  Its not exactly that he wanted to look off wagon; like I said, I might want to as well.  However, to that quickly go out and say it without any supporting evidence is a little scummy to me.  Granted it has been a long night, he could have been developing these ideas in his brain for a while and it just gets vomited out because he thinks its obvious after all the time spent thinking about it.  I dont know, but if he were to have just at least given a little more of a reason why before directing everyone I'd be cool.

[jotheonah]

I mean, I'm all for conflicting opinions. I specifically said the wagon wasn't clear. You all are free to direct your hunting however you want, and to let me know why you think scum is on the wagon.

Here's my reasoning: In a very large town, getting close to deadline, why bus when there's a chance we could hit no lynch?  But now that I think about it, that was a bit premature. If I were scum and saw 11 or 12 votes I might read the writing on the wall and hop on the Gru wagon. I do think the people who really pushed it into viable territory, Galz for instance, look pretty clear. And I do suspect the Morg wagon a little more than everyone else.

I wish I had more time for this game today, unfortunately I have a job interview. I'll check in later this afternoon.

But man guys, there is so much content from yesterday, it seems like there ought to be a smoking gun.

[Captain_Frisk]

Yeah guys, I'm not sure why we're jumping on Joth here.  Day 1 bussing isn't impossible (RobZ and I did it - STUPIDLY in ZM2), but with this many people, it probably makes sense to start with some manner of focus other than "lets look at all 20 people".

[Watno]

vote asherersky

Not saying anything about nolynch in the beginning of the day, then when scum is about to get lyched suggest doing it, and when people say it's not a good idea, he says he doesn't want it. Cuzz has a point with what he says.

[Young Nick]

First off, Watno, you don't have the proper format for that to be registered as a vote. You need the colon.

I understand where you guys are coming from, and it does look like he has been hedging, but when I read his NL push, I viewed it more as asking an open-ended question than pushing for NL.

We all flirt with the idea in our Mafia-infancy, so I don't see why he should be judged more harshly for this than anyone else is. I mean, in a 20+ game, most conventional wisdom has to be at least modified, and the always-lynch-d1 logic is no exception.

If anything, I think Watno's second-on-the-wagon is more suspicious than anything else. Not that ashersky did much to defend himself at the top of p. 62..

[Captain_Frisk]

p. 62..

Sigh....

[Dsell]

p. 62..

Sigh....

That's this current page, for those who view more posts per page.

[Dsell]

p. 62..

Sigh....

That's this current page, for those who view more posts per page.

Or even more specifically, Ashersky's most recent post.

[Axxle]

p. 62..

Sigh....

That's this current page, for those who view more posts per page.

Thanks for reminding me I can do this.  Just changed it to 10 posts per page to make each page less daunting... although that turns it to 155 pages!

[ftl]

I bet there's scum on the Grujah wagon, I don't think scum can let half the town be cleared right after day 1. Especially when there's a town this big, we've got to have a whole bunch of them. Still, I would expect that there's more scum off the wagon than on it, so we should start by scumhunting there and then find the bussing mafia later.

Nightkills - mafia would kill someone from the wagon. Of the people who died, eevee and glooble were on the grujah wagon, O was not.  I'd guess mafia kill either eevee or glooble; if O was targeted then that was probably a vig kill. So we probably have either two scumteams (well, maybe just mafia+sk) and no vig, or just mafia and vig. With this many potential targets, I would really doubt that we had kill-collision, so I think there's only 2 nightkills going around. 

Weirdness with Eevee dying due to some interaction with the cult is also possible, I'd sort of assumed the recruiting faction doesn't get a nightkill.

Maybe the card is either Glooble or O's card, and the other one of them was Copper? That would fit, copper/coppersmith as lovers.

Looking back to D1 - out of the people who are still alive:
Were on the grujah wagon at the end:  ehunt, yuma, watno, Galzria, eHalcyon, Cuzz, Morgrim7, ftl, jotheonah, Axxle
D1, grujah voted for:  cayvie, yuma.
Had earlier voted for grujah but unvoted before the lynch: Dsell. ...and that's it, actually.
People who didn't have any voting interaction with Grujah: (Voltgloss)/sparky5856, Insomniac, Young Nick, Voltaire, Shraeye, igbtennis, TheMunch, Captain_Frisk, ashersky

I think the last two groups there should be our most likely suspects.  So Dsell, volt/sparky, insom, YN, Voltaire, shraeye, igb, Munch, C_F, ash.

Ima go back and see whether any of these people seemed wagon-happy until the wagon got to Grujah.