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Author Topic: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- GAME OVER, TOWN WINS  (Read 321046 times)

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jotheonah

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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1325 on: September 25, 2012, 01:04:53 am »

I'm going to have to reread Joth. It feels like he's just latching on to other people's arguments and not coming up with ones himself.

Don't bother. You're 100% right that this is what I'm doing.

But, like, somebody has to. When the only acceptable town play is for everyone to come up with their own 100% unique case, you get a vote count that looks like the one we have. If we ACTUALLY want a lynch, some people have to sheep. Critical thinking is still involved, to decide which reads to sheep and which not to.
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cayvie

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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1326 on: September 25, 2012, 01:25:54 am »

jotheonah: I say he's scum.  And I mean it.  (ftl, I think your case on me [maybe someone elses] that I was voting for o but making cases against watno felt scummy because it was hedging was bad.  Wrong and bad.  People are allowed to have more than one suspicion, but not allowed to have more than one vote.)  Here's something that fell through the cracks.  Remember when I was trying hard to lynch O, and people speculated that I was a lyncher role? Well joth said this
Robz of all people would include a lyncher whose target is town? After he was so pissed off at getting that role in BMMM?
And just left it 100% assumed that O was town.  Watno caught this, and I missed it the first time through.  O was so town to joth that he didn't bother to make O's alignment hypothetical at all.  Joth's response to watno calling him out and eHalcyon agreeing (and eHalcyon votes joth) is
Clearly O thinks O is town and O is the one who suggested shraeye is a lyncher.

What I think has little to do with it.
After repeating this same defense a second time, watno eventually finds the slip an honest mistake.  I really think this is a scumslip.  As in, he slipped in information taht only scum would know, and made a bad explanation as to why it was there.  He squirmed super hard under the heavy burden of the one vote on him (from eHalcyon), and though survival instinct should be allowed, that was too absurd.
Joth defending really eagerly/vehemently happened once already this game, when he only had one vote on him.
Joth is fighting *way* too hard for just one vote on him.

Also:

They will be subtly based on aspects of players personalities. (For example, the following line of thinking will not work in this game: "Jotheonah has twice been the Serial Killer, so he's probably the Serial Killer in this game.") Furthermore, some roles and alignments WILL be determined randomly.
I'm piecing two and two and two together, and I arrive at scum.  I am 100% behind any effort to lynch joth today.

I don't buy this at all.

Jo's statement was clearly directed at O, as O was the one accusing shraeye of being a lyncher.

And so, in order for O to claim both

A) shraeye is a lyncher with O as a target
B) O is town

then O would have to also claim

C) this game contains a lyncher with a town target.

Which jo was arguing against.

I think you're smart enough to get that, shraeye.
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jotheonah

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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1327 on: September 25, 2012, 01:32:41 am »

+1 to cayvie.
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cayvie

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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1328 on: September 25, 2012, 01:57:01 am »

I think DSell's case against Galz is genuine.

That is, he legitimately is trying to find scum, and is excited because he thinks he has.

This makes Dsell slightly townier in my eyes, and has no effect on my read of Galz. Eh, it probably makes Galz look a little scummier.

I'm excited that it got a real response out of Galz, though! Those are fun.
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cayvie

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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1329 on: September 25, 2012, 02:09:38 am »

+1 to cayvie.

man jo

you've still got me double checking my posts for swearing and sarcasm
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Insomniac

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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1330 on: September 25, 2012, 02:39:27 am »

@Insomniac: I really don't see how you feel justified in doing what you're doing. How did you expect town eHalc to react, and how did you expect scum eHalc to react?

Town eHalc to make a logical argument to why he is not scum, not to OMGUS me and carry on and on about it. For instance the way he is reacting now is much more townie he has moved on from me after he felt he stated his case better.
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ftl

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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1331 on: September 25, 2012, 04:42:22 am »

I've been so hypocritical, sorry guys. I spent like the first half of this thread calling for lurker lynches, and then I neglected this thread for most of a day and now I'm a lurker. Reap what you sow and all that, people aren't lurking and I can't keep up...

My thoughts on things that have happened here:
Townread on ehunt for his stuff with insom/O, and a scumread on insom from that.
Dsell's case on Galzria? Hm. I'll have to reread. Tomorrow morning though, not now... One thing that I remember from the murder mystery mafia was that scumgalz was accused of being a little nicer than towngalz. I'll have to go back and check whether that's the case here. Galz has been giving me townvibes but so has Dsell and he's good.

Shraeye.. When I read what he writes, it seems townish. And then I contrast with his votes and think obvscum. Like, that last post. Reasonable analysis of eHal which I find persuasive. And then he votes for MORGRIM???? Maybe it's that he always seems to vote for the worst, least solid case of the ones he talks about. (Morg's a bad lynch BTW. It's the usual morg. When he's scum, I bet we'll know.)

With one day 'till soft deadline, I'm expanding my 'willing to lynch' list. Galzria, insomniac, shraeye, glooble, grujah, munch, watno. Not ehunt or ehal or cayvie or morgrim. Not changing my vote from shraeye yet, but I will if I need to to make a lynch happen, nobody seems to buy my shraeye case.
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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1332 on: September 25, 2012, 05:05:56 am »

Okay, surprised to see no one suspecting me. Have I been so lurky you don't even remember I'm playing or what is it?

Anyways, now that I'm here, my thoughts on everyone. If I don't remember someone, it probably means he hasn't said anything memorable and should post more / more content.

Morgrim: I agree he has played very scummy, but in my re-read way back I concluded it doesn't look like the mafia kind of scummy. Wouldn't vote today.

Galzria: Dsell's case is the kind we should pursue more often day 1, I think. I would be ok with a Galz lynch, I'm not overly joyous about it because I think he could be a big town asset later.

Dsell: Town read, general good feeling. Possibly subconsciously rewarding him for the Galzria-case I like. Wouldn't vote.

eHalcyon: Looks different than the eHalcyon I know, but I don't have anything concrete. I disagree with him a lot which is new, but doesn't mean we can't be from the same faction.

ehunt: Again very different than the ehunt I know. My usual "wouldn't want to draw this much attention as town" doesn't apply here imo, because he didn't really want to be this active, he sort of got sucked into it because he got suspected so early.

Volt/sparky: I don't think subbing out or promising a case but never delivering are scum- or towntells, so pretty much a noread, maybe slight town bias. I think I read sparky better than Volt, so hopefully this will change.

Glooble: Much like the scum-Glooble I know. Would vote today.

Grujah: Is currently lurky in other games as well, but so was Frisk when he was scum in multiple games at the same time. I still have the same scum read I had earlier.

Axxle: Also a scum read, not because of the doublevoter business, but because I felt the reasons for voting ehunt were sort of flimsy and felt fabricated. Feels he made it seem like I was more sure of my vote on ehunt than I actually was, might be a misunderstanding though. Would vote.

yuma: Town read, but again I might be rewarding him for his work on the deadline-ideas. Wouldn't vote.

Frisk: Slight scum read maybe, hasn't done anything particularly towny and generally avoids the attention much like scum Frisk always does.

ftl: Is somehow always a no-read for me. Would vote I guess, but I should work on remembering you better.

Watno: Looks sort of scummy, but I wonder if it's too much of the "obvious kind" of scummy. He feels much like our usual day 1 lynch target. Would vote though, but not overly happy about it.

TheMunch: Got grilled more than he deserved I think (or rather for wrong reasons). I generally don't have a town read on him, but I think he came out okay from the eHalc and Watno - incidents. Would maybe be willing to vote for him, but can't quite put my finger on why.

ashersky: Hasn't said much anything, suspicious like all other lurkers.

Insomniac: I can't help but always see Ins scummy, so don't really know. Maybe more vocal than he would be if scum?

O: Opposite of Ins, I seem to have a town-bias on O. Wouldn't vote today.

Jotheonah: With that level of activity, should be signaling more town to me I think. Don't really know, KACEOY.

shraeye: Not like the shraeye I was expecting, and I didn't like the attitude much, especially earlier (who likes to be called stupid repeatedly), but faced some pressure and didn't crack or anything like that.

cayvie: Posts a lot without ever saying anything. I have a huge town bias on her, but here I actually think she looks rather scummy. The thing about not wanting to be a part of town wagons reads towny to me though.

Young_Nick: Slight scum read fornot being helpful. Doesn't seem paranoid about appearing lazy/useless though. And I know there is a lot to read, but we have excellent summaries.

Voltaire: Plays like I would expect scum Volt to. Slight scum read.

igbtennis: I don't know how much slack I'm supposed to cut him for being new. Would support his lynch for staying in the back and not contributing but it's got to be pretty hard to keep track of stuff in a town this big when you don't know anyone in advance.

Cuzz: I suspected him some in MX for this same playstyle, so he is definitely one of the guys that always seem scummy to me. That being said, would vote.

Before anyone attacks me for being vague and making a long useless list, it's very hard to come back to this thread after not being around when you guys produce 7 pages, I felt this was the best way to do it. It's very vague because so are my opinions atm, I feel day1 doesn't have much to offer to us anymore and quite frankly am happy it's coming to and end.

Oh, and I've been wondering if I should say this or not since cayvie's post but no I will. My role has a thing about being on wagons too (and the reason cayvie's reads towny to me is that I know I'm town and I too have one). Mine is that it's very good to me to be a part of scum lynch wagon, so expect to see me participate in the lynch even if it's on a town read of mine, especially if it seems to be happening anyways.

Vote: Axxle
2nd would be Grujah
3rd Glooble.

ehunt vote was maybe outdated. But yeah, I'll be somehow making sure I end up on the lynch wagon in the end, just a heads up. It won't be an O-like quickhammer though, don't worry.
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Axxle

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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1333 on: September 25, 2012, 05:12:39 am »

Okay, surprised to see no one suspecting me. Have I been so lurky you don't even remember I'm playing or what is it?
Yes.  Even though I sheeped you earlier, yes.

I am a terrible player...
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Axxle

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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1334 on: September 25, 2012, 05:14:14 am »

Axxle: Also a scum read, not because of the doublevoter business, but because I felt the reasons for voting ehunt were sort of flimsy and felt fabricated. Feels he made it seem like I was more sure of my vote on ehunt than I actually was, might be a misunderstanding though. Would vote.
You know I unvoted him after he explained himself very plausibly, right?
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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1335 on: September 25, 2012, 05:16:13 am »

Axxle: Also a scum read, not because of the doublevoter business, but because I felt the reasons for voting ehunt were sort of flimsy and felt fabricated. Feels he made it seem like I was more sure of my vote on ehunt than I actually was, might be a misunderstanding though. Would vote.
You know I unvoted him after he explained himself very plausibly, right?
I do, I didn't like the original reasons for the vote.
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cayvie

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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1336 on: September 25, 2012, 05:30:17 am »

hmmmm, wow.

I think that post moves my list to

Primary: Eevee
Secondary: Axxle
Tertiary: Grujah.

I think you've mischaracterized my play fairly drastically. Frankly, I haven't been posting all that much lately, and what I have been posting has been, I feel, pretty full of substance.

I think it's weird that you say you find me kinda scummy, but then proceed to corroborate my story and sheep my reads exactly.

I would be less than surprised if it turned out you were the cult leader.
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Axxle

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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1337 on: September 25, 2012, 05:38:38 am »

It's taking all of my power not to vote cayvie right now...  need... symmetry...
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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1338 on: September 25, 2012, 05:40:38 am »

Cayvie, why would a cult leader inform the town of the existence of the cult? Well, he wouldnt but I dont even care about that.

WHY IS WHAT YOU SAID I DID SCUMMY? I could argue why it's not, but I'll let you make your case first in case I'm missing something.
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Axxle

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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1339 on: September 25, 2012, 05:44:24 am »

IIRC I'm not voting for anyone right now.  Might as well park my vote somewhere I know I won't regret it.

Vote: Morgrim
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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1340 on: September 25, 2012, 05:44:52 am »

IIRC I'm not voting for anyone right now.  Might as well park my votes somewhere I know I won't regret it.

Vote: Morgrim
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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1341 on: September 25, 2012, 07:10:58 am »

Anyway, hi guys. :) 
Sorry about being freaked out about the deadline too early, I thought I had seen Monday somewhere, no idea where I got that.  I don't see the need to respond to any arguments against me, and actually I'm ok with lynching myself. VT lynches are not so bad, right? So, Vote: Morgrim.
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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1342 on: September 25, 2012, 07:12:40 am »

I would self hammer, but my role prevents me from doing that :(. But I do get to do something cool when I am lynched.
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Mad, I tell you.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaad." -Voltgloss
Dominion Notation: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7265.msg206246#msg206246

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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1343 on: September 25, 2012, 07:29:09 am »

Oh goddamnit morgrim.
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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1344 on: September 25, 2012, 08:07:32 am »

Hey, when will your move be finished?

We'll finally arrive in our new house on Thursday next week.  Yeah, it sucks.  Changing two hemispheres, though, so it does take time.
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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1345 on: September 25, 2012, 08:36:24 am »

Hey, when will your move be finished?

We'll finally arrive in our new house on Thursday next week.  Yeah, it sucks.  Changing two hemispheres, though, so it does take time.

?
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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1346 on: September 25, 2012, 08:56:23 am »

Hey, when will your move be finished?

We'll finally arrive in our new house on Thursday next week.  Yeah, it sucks.  Changing two hemispheres, though, so it does take time.

?

Northern to Southern and Western to Eastern.  (US to Aus)
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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1347 on: September 25, 2012, 09:25:29 am »

jotheonah: I say he's scum.  And I mean it.  (ftl, I think your case on me [maybe someone elses] that I was voting for o but making cases against watno felt scummy because it was hedging was bad.  Wrong and bad.  People are allowed to have more than one suspicion, but not allowed to have more than one vote.)  Here's something that fell through the cracks.  Remember when I was trying hard to lynch O, and people speculated that I was a lyncher role? Well joth said this
Robz of all people would include a lyncher whose target is town? After he was so pissed off at getting that role in BMMM?
And just left it 100% assumed that O was town.  Watno caught this, and I missed it the first time through.  O was so town to joth that he didn't bother to make O's alignment hypothetical at all.  Joth's response to watno calling him out and eHalcyon agreeing (and eHalcyon votes joth) is
Clearly O thinks O is town and O is the one who suggested shraeye is a lyncher.

What I think has little to do with it.
After repeating this same defense a second time, watno eventually finds the slip an honest mistake.  I really think this is a scumslip.  As in, he slipped in information taht only scum would know, and made a bad explanation as to why it was there.  He squirmed super hard under the heavy burden of the one vote on him (from eHalcyon), and though survival instinct should be allowed, that was too absurd.
Joth defending really eagerly/vehemently happened once already this game, when he only had one vote on him.
Joth is fighting *way* too hard for just one vote on him.

Also:

They will be subtly based on aspects of players personalities. (For example, the following line of thinking will not work in this game: "Jotheonah has twice been the Serial Killer, so he's probably the Serial Killer in this game.") Furthermore, some roles and alignments WILL be determined randomly.
I'm piecing two and two and two together, and I arrive at scum.  I am 100% behind any effort to lynch joth today.

I don't buy this at all.

Jo's statement was clearly directed at O, as O was the one accusing shraeye of being a lyncher.

And so, in order for O to claim both

A) shraeye is a lyncher with O as a target
B) O is town

then O would have to also claim

C) this game contains a lyncher with a town target.

Which jo was arguing against.

I think you're smart enough to get that, shraeye.
Thanks, cayvie, you talked some sense into me here.  Maybe I just have a hard time understanding joth's one-liners.  I am now only 60% behind a joth lynch.
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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1348 on: September 25, 2012, 09:33:13 am »

Shraeye.. When I read what he writes, it seems townish. And then I contrast with his votes and think obvscum. Like, that last post. Reasonable analysis of eHal which I find persuasive. And then he votes for MORGRIM???? Maybe it's that he always seems to vote for the worst, least solid case of the ones he talks about. (Morg's a bad lynch BTW. It's the usual morg. When he's scum, I bet we'll know.)
Yeah, the eHalc argument is legit, he's the most towny in my book right now.  Again you're doing this crazy thing where you see me give lots of cases and then give me flak for voting for only one of them.  Morgrim is my serious case.  Which other case of mine (for scum, my eHalc case was good, and that's why I'm not voting for him) is more solid?  I really hate that people are always saying Morgrim is a bad lynch.  Even with his claim for cool stuff post-lynch, I want to lynch that scum.  I will remember your "Morgrim is a bad lynch" argument when Morg flips scum.
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Re: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- DAY 1, PM MOD FOR SPEC QT
« Reply #1349 on: September 25, 2012, 09:41:34 am »

Shraeye, I too think Morgrim is a bad lynch. I don't expect him to be mafia, and hope people can see past his behavior and have the sense to go after someone else today.
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