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[ehunt]

I'm still not comfortable with listing three people in order, I'll do it soon, but am posting my basic train of thought now so I'm not dropping a bombshell when I do vote: I am suspicious of Insomniac because of his super non-committing position on me from earlier today (today IRL) as well as his "well, voltgloss is a smart guy even if he didn't actually say a good case so there must be a good case somewhere" arg against ehalcyon. I am annoyed at Axxle for repeated bad arguments at me, but unlike the Insom-business, that isn't really a case in and of itself (but I'm going to review him). Other than that I think my whole wagon is town except Insomniac and possibly eevee, but I'm not likely to vote for eevee before either of those other two. In the Glooble-Grujah wars I sympathize with Glooble, which makes me want to vote for Grujah.  My view of basically everyone "new" is clouded and run-together and needs to be reviewed before I vote; in particular, I don't understand the Watno/Munch dispute at all. I am still suspicious of shraeye for his personality change from previous games, which I don't think has been addressed. I am a little suspicious of voltaire again but don't have a real case, I am unlikely to vote there. I am not suspicious of ehalc (see my previous post on this) but I'm willing to give voltgloss/sparky the benefit of the doubt on this instead of assuming voltgloss/sparky is scummy for pushing the case.

...You need to stop pushing people that argue with you, you have this tendancy to believe anybody that puts any pressure on anyone or argues with you at all must be scum, and your always wrong.

I'd like you to cite other examples of this "tendency" and where it wound up going wrong. For example, in the post you are quoting I say my wagon is town, except for you and possibly Axxle/Eevee. I don't believe I have this tendency at all (except when my wagon really is scum, e.g. MIX and MVI, no regrets from either of those games).

Haven't caught up yet wanted to respond to this though, Remember your post after M8 finished where you thought I was scum when I was arguing with theorel. Yea you were wrong there too.

tl;dr

insomniac: ehunt says everyone who accuses ehunt is mafia but he's always wrong
ehunt: give an example
insomniac: in mviii i accused theorel of being mafia and then ehunt said he thought i was mafia

[ehunt]

oh, you think i think anyone who puts pressure on ANYONE is mafia. no, that's not true. I don't think DSell is mafia. I don't think O is mafia.

[eHalcyon]

As for actual scumminess from active players, I stated exactly why I find eHal scummy. He's been over-the-top defensive against a case that ultimately bore no real weight. And while he was raising my eyebrows with comments made before Volt posted (things like "I can see a legitimate case on me"), it was really the defensiveness after Volt posted that I found scummy - because with the exception of Insomniac (and I can't even vouch for him), nobody was jumping up and down going "what a compelling case" - but eHal's defenses (and there were multiple) kept reading like he desperately wanted to head off a wagon before it began. He's gone so far as to use the ridiculous line of "what would you learn if you lynched me and I flipped town" - which reads to me like he's trying to scare people away from voting for him because "you won't learn anything". Bull. We'll learn that you're either scum or town, and we'll learn who got on a rolling wagon. We'll learn who started it, who drove it, who distances themselves from it, who was outspoken against it etc.

I've also stated that I found Munch to read consistently townie -frustrated townie- but townie to me. His "debate" with Watno (and to some extent eHal) was pretty clear to me, and the continued pressure by Watno over questions Munch had answered already seemed scummy. It was like he was trying his best to paint Munch as scum, even though all the answers Munch gave read town. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing was town V town.

I contend that I have not been overly defensive.  I have only reacted to people actually calling me scummy without giving any real reason.  To my recollection -- TheMunch (either misunderstanding me or twisting my words, and I am leaning towards the latter now); Volt (for something everyone agrees was bogus); jo (for something he himself did as a townie in MVI).  And after that, several people saying I have overreacted.  But I don't think I have.

Put another way, if I overreacted, then you are doing the same thing in this post where you shoot down Dsell's case.  I don't think you are though -- there was a case, however small, and a few people have said that it is somewhat compelling.  You feel it is a really weak case, so you speak up against it.  That's what I did too.

Also I did not say "what would you learn if you lynched me and I flipped town".  My question was a legitimate question:

"If I am lynched, how will your reads change when I flip town?"

It was a real question.

[eHalcyon]

My biggest fear in this game: everyone arguing right now is town; scum are remaining just active enough not to be "lurkers" but not getting involved in actual discussion.  The people in this category include cayvie and O, on whom I have town reads.  But their lack of involvement worries me.

[ashersky]

@Dsell: can you expand on why you find me mildly, possibly scummy?  I know I haven't been super active, but I do try to post content (restart RVS joke posts aside) and contributed the "let's at least look at Insom" argument just today.

On lynching for the sake of information: that whole line of thinking is now wholly in the realm of WIfOM now, I think.  "I supported the lynch to get info..."  "You are saying that as a cover!"  "You are calling it a cover because we said it could be a cover, but it is my real reason!"  "Just a cover, and you are saying I am saying it because..." And so on.  So I don't think it is too useful to continue that line of conversation.

[ehunt]

My biggest fear in this game: everyone arguing right now is town; scum are remaining just active enough not to be "lurkers" but not getting involved in actual discussion.  The people in this category include cayvie and O, on whom I have town reads.  But their lack of involvement worries me.

in my anger at insomniac he is reminding me of the time i got angry at him in the QT in MVIII which in turn is lending credence to your theory that he is town. i will try to step away from the keyboard and calm down; I also want those particular two people (cayvie and O) to say stuff. also ftl, glooble, grujah.

[eHalcyon]

@Dsell: can you expand on why you find me mildly, possibly scummy?  I know I haven't been super active, but I do try to post content (restart RVS joke posts aside) and contributed the "let's at least look at Insom" argument just today.

On lynching for the sake of information: that whole line of thinking is now wholly in the realm of WIfOM now, I think.  "I supported the lynch to get info..."  "You are saying that as a cover!"  "You are calling it a cover because we said it could be a cover, but it is my real reason!"  "Just a cover, and you are saying I am saying it because..." And so on.  So I don't think it is too useful to continue that line of conversation.

Hey, when will your move be finished?

Re: infolynching -- mission accomplished.   As long as people can't hide behind it as an excuse, I'm fine with it.

[Dsell]

@Galz

Shoot, you really mischaracterize my case here. My case isn't that you're hedging-->you must be mafia. In general, I agree with you that hedging is a pretty townie thing to do. It's really not something that scum-Galz would do, being so confident with his reads. As you point out in that post I quoted. You then go out of your way to be hedgy in the EXTREME. On the ONLY three people you analyze in that post. As if you were flaunting that "this right here is something scum-Galz would never do." You're making sure that everyone knows your meta so that they won't be suspicious when your play is in stark contrast with that meta you've tried and failed to escape from. You're just doomed to be easily readable in every future game as scum!

I don't understand why you think I've singled out a single post...I only quoted one, but I've encouraged everyone to read everything you've written. Sure, you've posted cases on other people at various times during the day, but it's nothing that scum-Galz couldn't whip out in a flash.

You have indeed been adamant and consistent (within THIS game) about your frustration with lurkers and your willingness to lurk them. But taking a stand on something like that does not really get you town points, especially when it gives you an excuse to lynch people who are just as likely (more likely, actually) to be town as mafia. I actually agree with you on the lurker meta in a lot of ways...but it's a catch-22 because it can be an extremely convenient position for scum to take. Scum has no problem playing anti-town in one game "for the good of the town in future games."

I'm not saying you don't have real reasons for voting for the various people you've voted for, I'm saying that those reasons are easy and not very innovative.

I don't believe my case is terrible at all, I think it's quite good. You're scum making sure you play in stark contrast to your well-established scum meta. That's not such an unlikely case.

[eHalcyon]

My biggest fear in this game: everyone arguing right now is town; scum are remaining just active enough not to be "lurkers" but not getting involved in actual discussion.  The people in this category include cayvie and O, on whom I have town reads.  But their lack of involvement worries me.

in my anger at insomniac he is reminding me of the time i got angry at him in the QT in MVIII which in turn is lending credence to your theory that he is town. i will try to step away from the keyboard and calm down; I also want those particular two people (cayvie and O) to say stuff. also ftl, glooble, grujah.

My read on Ins is becoming more neutral (I was suspicious earlier), though I suppose you are referring to that quote that maybe everyone involved is town.  His arguments against me don't read as scummy to me as Munch's (in that I feel he is trying to twist words), and Galz looks a little sketchy to me too now (he always looks sketchy to me though).  And I still think Volt is suspicious for teasing at such a weak case.

Just updating my list, trying to get this started. Reasons for 1 and 2 provided earlier, for lack of a better option 3 Frisk is back on the list but at the lowest spot.

Vote: jotheonah
2nd vote: Watno
3rd vote: Captain_Frisk

For ease of reading, can you give those reasons again, or at least link them?

Vote: ehunt
2nd vote - Watno
3rd vote - eHalcyon

P.S. I suggest this format so we don't accidentally vote with our secondary and tertiary votes.

Reasons?

I still want these.



And yeah, I want cayvie and O to give an opinion on recent events.

[Dsell]

@Dsell: can you expand on why you find me mildly, possibly scummy?  I know I haven't been super active, but I do try to post content (restart RVS joke posts aside) and contributed the "let's at least look at Insom" argument just today.

It's mostly that you fit the bill of "doing just enough to skate by on D1 without standing out too much or making strong cases." It could just be your playstyle and it's not a terribly strong read. Still, you are doing pretty much what mafia wants to do right now.

[Cuzz]

I'm happy with my current vote, on Frisk. Someone pointed out his posts have mostly seemed like IIoA, and I'd agree with that.

To comment on a random selection of recent topics, I'll mention that I have a town read on Galzria (I found his anti-lurking rant from a while back to be genuine town). Some other town reads are probably yuma (organizing the soft deadline, and kickstarting conversation after the lull seemed pro-town) and Munch  (even though I disagree with a lot of what he's said, his explanations come off as town)

I also do appreciate eHalc and ehunt's point about voting for information. (as an aside, can you guys please get into an argument or something so I stop getting you confused? you keep making similar points in addition to the similar names) At this point in the game, there's a massive amount of content, but no context (ie flips and night results) in which to analyze it, so it's tempting to want to vote for shaky reasons and get this day over with. But we should really all try to back up our votes, since otherwise the "information" we're hoping to gain will be much less valuable.

PPE: ashersky just made a point relevant to the above that I should probably read but it's bedtime.

[eHalcyon]

I'm going to take a break for tonight.  I might be around in other parts of the forum, but I'm going to avoid this thread.  I'm going to avoid even looking at it, so I don't get tempted to post.

I encourage everyone to weigh in on recent cases.

PPE: Cuzz, our avatars are rather different though.

[Robz888]

"Everyone is voting for everyone!" exclaimed Jotheonah. "How will we ever decide?"

"Let's just vote for Robz; that's what we usually do," commented Morgrim.

"An excellent suggestion!" cheered eHalcyon. "Let's hang the scummy fellow!"

Having whipped themselves into a "KILL ROBZ" frenzy, they set out about looking for him. But Robz was nowhere to be found.

"Oh, that's right," said Insomniac. "We were trying to figure out who kidnapped him, remember?"
--


Vote Count 1.21

shraeye (2) -- ftl, Captain_Frisk
ehunt (4) -- Eevee, Axxle, Morgrim7
Glooble (1) -- yuma
Grujah (2) -- Glooble, ehunt
Voltaire (1) -- Insomniac
Captain_Frisk (2) -- Watno, Cuzz
Young Nick (1) -- cayvie
Axxle (1) -- Young Nick
jotheonah (1) -- Voltaire
eHalcyon (2) -- Galzria, TheMunch
Insomniac (1) -- ashersky
Galzria (2) -- Dsell, jotheonah
ftl (1) - ibgtennis

Not Voting (5) -- Grujah, O, eHalcyon, shraeye, sparky5856

With 25 alive it takes 13 to lynch. Day 1 deadline is Saturday, September 29th at 1:00 PM (EDT)

[sparky5856]

Onto page 16 of my read, I'll stop for tonight. Primary thought: Morgrim scares me. >___<

[Galzria]

@Galz

Shoot, you really mischaracterize my case here. My case isn't that you're hedging-->you must be mafia. In general, I agree with you that hedging is a pretty townie thing to do. It's really not something that scum-Galz would do, being so confident with his reads. As you point out in that post I quoted. You then go out of your way to be hedgy in the EXTREME. On the ONLY three people you analyze in that post. As if you were flaunting that "this right here is something scum-Galz would never do." You're making sure that everyone knows your meta so that they won't be suspicious when your play is in stark contrast with that meta you've tried and failed to escape from. You're just doomed to be easily readable in every future game as scum!

I don't understand why you think I've singled out a single post...I only quoted one, but I've encouraged everyone to read everything you've written. Sure, you've posted cases on other people at various times during the day, but it's nothing that scum-Galz couldn't whip out in a flash.

You have indeed been adamant and consistent (within THIS game) about your frustration with lurkers and your willingness to lurk them. But taking a stand on something like that does not really get you town points, especially when it gives you an excuse to lynch people who are just as likely (more likely, actually) to be town as mafia. I actually agree with you on the lurker meta in a lot of ways...but it's a catch-22 because it can be an extremely convenient position for scum to take. Scum has no problem playing anti-town in one game "for the good of the town in future games."

I'm not saying you don't have real reasons for voting for the various people you've voted for, I'm saying that those reasons are easy and not very innovative.

I don't believe my case is terrible at all, I think it's quite good. You're scum making sure you play in stark contrast to your well-established scum meta. That's not such an unlikely case.

And to ask what seems to be a popular question around these parts:

"And what will lynching me and seeing my town alignment tell you?"

It's a bad case because it does exactly as you claim: Makes it impossible for me to play this game, because if I conform to my town-meta (intentionally or not), I must be scum doing so on purpose. If I conform to my scum meta, I must be scum because that's how scum Galz plays.

You're basically saying "We should lynch Galz because we can't trust him". It's very similar to O's "I'm down with a Galzria lynch in every game" in that there's basically no room for me to play. I'm a detriment to both my scum teams and town teams under that premise.

As for the lurker issue, I absolutely do not think they have a "greater chance at being town than others". It's rather irrelevant as this community has no desire to lynch them though. They'll talk about it all day long, but ultimately they'll vote someone active who has a perceived "scumslip", and then they'll watch as said player flips up town. Hey, whatever. Town isn't doing terrible in the percentages, so they can get by.

Why is it so infuriating to me personally? Because way back in M-II I was scum in my very first game. It was the only game that I was in, and it had only 9 players. I devoted a TON of time and posts to that thread to help scum win. Ever since then I've been town (ZM-1 the exception), and I've found it SO much harder to stay engaged. Certainly the desire (and ability) to help teammates that I don't even know is strained. I don't want to devote 10,000 posts to a thread. But every time I've tried to not post so much, I've been called out for playing different, thus I must be scum. It happened in M-III, in M-VI, M-VII and it's happened some here...

And I've kinda gone on a tangent. But it's frustrating that if/when I sign up for a game, it means I must post 1,000 posts a day or I'm scum, while for others posing once every 48 is acceptable. And it's frustrating to see cases like yours where you explicitly state " You're just doomed to be easily readable in every future game as scum!" based on "scum-meta = scum, and town-meta = scum playing to town-meta".

Anyway, all that tangent aside, if your case really does boil down to "I think he's likely scum because he appears to match his town-meta" then there's not much I can say or do to defend myself. If you lynch me, you'll find that once more town-meta Galzria is indeed town. At least I'll have the comfort of knowing I was lynched because you WIFOM'd yourself to town galz must be scum. /shrug

[jotheonah]

And ... Unvote.

[Axxle]

A few pages back but Unvote for now after seeing eHunt's explanation.

[Dsell]

>.<

Your rebuttal to my case would be all fine and good if you were responding to the case I presented.

Town Galzria is a great player. Scum Galzria is a great player. You're a great player, you should be happy. So stop misrepresenting my case.

First of all, both of your rebuttals to my arguments have stated that my case implies that you're playing with your Town-Galz meta. You're not and I specifically said that in my initial argument. Your town meta, according to you, is that you act all townie and everyone thinks you're suspicious. Well, I think you're suspicious but no one else has all day and no one is really biting at my case.

I'm not trying to make it impossible for you to play. I don't think I would be having an issue with you if you were just being ordinary, helpful town Galz, and no I'm not saying that you have to post 10,000 times per day to do that, that's not the issue. The issue is something subtly scummy that you said and a pattern in your behavior that fits in with a meta that you would like to push as scum, and one that is quite different from your usual scum meta (though it doesn't quite fit in with your town meta either). You HAVE been quieter than usual, but content-wise, rather than post count-wise.

My statement about you being easily readable in every future game was pretty obviously satire; I was taking your claims about your meta being unchangeable to the logical conclusion. You are an excellent player, and you're not going to let yourself be reduced to your meta. But by claiming that your meta can't be changed, you are basically saying that you're solvable. And you're not.

And on the lurker thing, I didn't mean that lurkers are more likely than active players to turn up town, I mean that probability-wise, it's more likely that they're town. By reducing lynches to analyzing post count rather than post content, it's basically turning the lynch into a random lynch. Of course, we usually lynch someone based on a "scumslip." That's why I'm going for subtle play in my case against you.

[Insomniac]

oh, you think i think anyone who puts pressure on ANYONE is mafia. no, that's not true. I don't think DSell is mafia. I don't think O is mafia.

I put pressure on eHal to see how he reacts and eHal reacts in a scummy way, you start to defend him and ask me to give reasons for putting you second but giving them would be anti-town* (see below). And when I don't give them to you you lunge on me for numerous reasons but basically OMGUS.

* I'm going to reference ZM2 here. In ZM2 I decided to say that if I died shraeye was scum. Doing so however directly modified the outcome of what happened because now if I died it is more likely to be someone framing shraeye then shraeye because shraeye as scum would have to be pretty silly to shoot me unless he hopes to apply that as his defence. Now the only reason I ended up voting for shraeye in ZM2 is BECAUSE I had said that and had to assume the reason I didn't die was because I had said that statement thereby altering the course of the game. So saying what I learn from your flip does in fact inevitably change the course of the night and the game.

PPE: 15 new replies since I started writing this (had to go talk to the girlfriend for a bit,) so I'm going to push this through and then read them

[Dsell]

Ugh, I'm frustrated that the argument with Galz has become long, back-and-forth posts that people aren't going to want to read.

Again, I want to encourage everyone to read all of Galz' posts and look for subtle scum play. Galz is trying to slip under the radar today, and that is where we should be looking if we're going to have a successful day 1 scum lynch.

[Galzria]

>.<

Your rebuttal to my case would be all fine and good if you were responding to the case I presented.

Town Galzria is a great player. Scum Galzria is a great player. You're a great player, you should be happy. So stop misrepresenting my case.

First of all, both of your rebuttals to my arguments have stated that my case implies that you're playing with your Town-Galz meta. You're not and I specifically said that in my initial argument. Your town meta, according to you, is that you act all townie and everyone thinks you're suspicious. Well, I think you're suspicious but no one else has all day and no one is really biting at my case.

I'm not trying to make it impossible for you to play. I don't think I would be having an issue with you if you were just being ordinary, helpful town Galz, and no I'm not saying that you have to post 10,000 times per day to do that, that's not the issue. The issue is something subtly scummy that you said and a pattern in your behavior that fits in with a meta that you would like to push as scum, and one that is quite different from your usual scum meta (though it doesn't quite fit in with your town meta either). You HAVE been quieter than usual, but content-wise, rather than post count-wise.

My statement about you being easily readable in every future game was pretty obviously satire; I was taking your claims about your meta being unchangeable to the logical conclusion. You are an excellent player, and you're not going to let yourself be reduced to your meta. But by claiming that your meta can't be changed, you are basically saying that you're solvable. And you're not.

And on the lurker thing, I didn't mean that lurkers are more likely than active players to turn up town, I mean that probability-wise, it's more likely that they're town. By reducing lynches to analyzing post count rather than post content, it's basically turning the lynch into a random lynch. Of course, we usually lynch someone based on a "scumslip." That's why I'm going for subtle play in my case against you.

Fair enough. I guess I was misunderstanding - not intentionally misrepresenting. Then I would like to change my final statement in my previous post to read "At least if I get lynched, I'll have the comfort of knowing I was actually able to play town as townie instead of scummy... Even if I got lynched for it!".

I respect the desire to look outside the norm honestly, which is probably why I don't find you scummy at all... Like, maybe 10% scumminess to 90% town (and I really hope I'm right in that at the end of the game!). I felt the same way in M-VII when I pushed to lynch the person I suspected least D1. Sadly, it backfired as they too flipped up town. Likewise here, I assure you that I'm town.

[Axxle]

I don't think morgrim isn't even reading the thread.  It feels like he doesn't know about the soft deadline.  This is the scummiest I've ever seen him.

Morgrim is a TERRIBLE target for cop.  Cops should target people who would benefit town from being obvtown, so someone with solid reads but the cop can't read them, or something like that.

I have voted "For Information" before.  But ALWAYS on a null or scum read.  Killing town "for information" is stupid.  eHunt is right, stop being daft.

I'm going to have to reread Joth. It feels like he's just latching on to other people's arguments and not coming up with ones himself.

@Insomniac: I really don't see how you feel justified in doing what you're doing. How did you expect town eHalc to react, and how did you expect scum eHalc to react?

[shraeye]

oh, you think i think anyone who puts pressure on ANYONE is mafia. no, that's not true. I don't think DSell is mafia. I don't think O is mafia.

I put pressure on eHal to see how he reacts and eHal reacts in a scummy way, you start to defend him and ask me to give reasons for putting you second but giving them would be anti-town* (see below). And when I don't give them to you you lunge on me for numerous reasons but basically OMGUS.

* I'm going to reference ZM2 here. In ZM2 I decided to say that if I died shraeye was scum. Doing so however directly modified the outcome of what happened because now if I died it is more likely to be someone framing shraeye then shraeye because shraeye as scum would have to be pretty silly to shoot me unless he hopes to apply that as his defence. Now the only reason I ended up voting for shraeye in ZM2 is BECAUSE I had said that and had to assume the reason I didn't die was because I had said that statement thereby altering the course of the game. So saying what I learn from your flip does in fact inevitably change the course of the night and the game.

PPE: 15 new replies since I started writing this (had to go talk to the girlfriend for a bit,) so I'm going to push this through and then read them

Except I literally told you on day 2 that the only way for the theoretical scum-shraeye to win the game was to NK you anyway, so assuming that you saying that saved you from scum-shraeye was (a) ridiculous and (b) terrible reasoning.  So when we learn stuff from a flip, remember not to be ridiculous about it.

[Axxle]

Sparky: Specifically focus on eHalc.  What is your read on him?

[shraeye]

Yikes, the last few pages were tough to slog through; everyone seems to be repeating the same things and ignoring eachother.  I'm still down with an informational-lynch, I think they'll work.  But I'm looking at eHalcyon's arguments and I realize that though they sound rational, I simply disagree with too many of his premises.  I'll never convince him to give them up, and he won't convince me they're right.  So this is me firmly deciding that it is not worth arguing.  The good news is that everyone now can secretly say in their minds "yeah but I'm totally right".---AS I WAS WRITING I SEE YOU ALSO ARE DONE WITH THIS POINT IN #1306; I ALSO AGREE THAT THIS MATTER IS "RESOLVED", MEANING THAT WE SHOULDN'T TALK ABOUT IT ANYMORE.

Here's my take on some subset of the players

eHalcyon reads super town to me right now.  I can't quite recall who (funny, because I'm the guy who just wrote an enormous summary) but somebody once said that another person [i'm going out on a limb, trusting my fuzzy memory, and saying it was Dsell talking about yuma] was simply too out there, and obviously combative to be scum.  So lot's of people disagree with eHalcyon's viewpoint, or the specific way he is arguing, his "info-lynch is bad" "vigs NKing morgrim is good" ideas.  And they vote him for that saying his arguments are scummy.  It seems that f.DS loves to equate wrong, or misguided, with scummy.  "I disagree with you, therefore you must be scum!!!"  That's silly as shit.  I disagree with eHalcyon on a lot of things he's been posting.  But he reads town to me.

Morgrim!! He's scary

Onto page 16 of my read, I'll stop for tonight. Primary thought: Morgrim scares me. >___<

Whether or not sparky means what I mean by this, imma hijack his thought.  Morgrim really seems to be to be playing strangely.  He pops in and out (timezones, I know) but when he is here, he has tended to post lists of people and reads.  And these aren't explained at all.  He starts off reallllly early putting out a list of people who he wants to lynch though he has town reads.  In itself, this isn't something I actually think is terrible, somebody pointed out that when it comes to crunch time, we scramble to get behind a lynch that might be working, as long as it isn't a super strong town read.  Morgrim just seemed to be adopting this personality right out of the gates.  I dislike how eager that sounded to get day 1 over with and a (mis)-lynch behind us.  People say Morgrim wagons won't work (people, I think, is eHalcyon in particular, who said this is why scummy Morg is a good vig-kill or cop-check).  "Morgrim is being Morgrim" is also silly.  I am 100% behind anyone who wants to lynch Morgrim.
Vote: Morgrim

Galzria: I still think that Galz is fake-playing to town-meta, or Galz is actually in town-meta arguments suck.  I know this is ironic, since Galz is one of the proponents of "people can't change their meta even if they try".  But both of these sound like dumb reasons from my relatively-newbish viewpoint.  Galz has done nothing that has given more than a slight-scum read.  He has also given me many many town reads.  So he's town by my book.

jotheonah: I say he's scum.  And I mean it.  (ftl, I think your case on me [maybe someone elses] that I was voting for o but making cases against watno felt scummy because it was hedging was bad.  Wrong and bad.  People are allowed to have more than one suspicion, but not allowed to have more than one vote.)  Here's something that fell through the cracks.  Remember when I was trying hard to lynch O, and people speculated that I was a lyncher role? Well joth said this

Robz of all people would include a lyncher whose target is town? After he was so pissed off at getting that role in BMMM?

And just left it 100% assumed that O was town.  Watno caught this, and I missed it the first time through.  O was so town to joth that he didn't bother to make O's alignment hypothetical at all.  Joth's response to watno calling him out and eHalcyon agreeing (and eHalcyon votes joth) is

Clearly O thinks O is town and O is the one who suggested shraeye is a lyncher.

What I think has little to do with it.

After repeating this same defense a second time, watno eventually finds the slip an honest mistake.  I really think this is a scumslip.  As in, he slipped in information taht only scum would know, and made a bad explanation as to why it was there.  He squirmed super hard under the heavy burden of the one vote on him (from eHalcyon), and though survival instinct should be allowed, that was too absurd.
Joth defending really eagerly/vehemently happened once already this game, when he only had one vote on him.

Joth is fighting *way* too hard for just one vote on him.

Also:

They will be subtly based on aspects of players personalities. (For example, the following line of thinking will not work in this game: "Jotheonah has twice been the Serial Killer, so he's probably the Serial Killer in this game.") Furthermore, some roles and alignments WILL be determined randomly.

I'm piecing two and two and two together, and I arrive at scum.  I am 100% behind any effort to lynch joth today.

o: I'm off his case for now.  He showed up and debated things, said stuff, committed himself.  I'm super worried that he's about to go into his deadline-posting strategy of rapid-firing off posts challenging people until he thinks he's caught scum.  I suggest that nobody does this.  Here's the part of the day where level-headed shraeye tries to talk you all into sense, and you all make pages and pages of vomit-inducing posts within a 40minute period anyway.

voltgloss: Now sparky.  Through no fault of your own, you inherited a role that I was already suspicious of.  Thanks for subbing.  But voltgloss/sparky is suspicious.  I know that voltgloss was very busy this weekend, but I really disliked how he first announced that he was building an awesome case on eHalcyon.  And the case probably would have sounded good too (if he had had time to work on it), but it's premise was pretty bunk.  Basically it was all based around eHalcyon saying twice that he didn't think his role fit his meta.  All eHalcyon was trying to do, was quell discussion regarding this, which could cause more danger than the help it could possibly give.  I agree with eHalcyon here.  Not all players in this game have metas.  Some are very new, some (like me) are somewhat new.  If we speculate about metas, this will shift most suspicion to people who's metas we could analyze.  I don't think my role sums my meta up, from what I secretly think Robz thinks of me.  But who's to say, since Robz didn't broadcast his feelings on every player.  My suspicion on Voltgloss comes more from something else though.  This goes back to whoever said "dude A is too out there to be scum, scum wouldn't put themselves in that position"  Of all the players who have given me quiet/coasty vibes, his is not only the least lurky (possibly because he was very careful to say just enough that people knew he was here) it is also surprisingly devoid of content.  The one big moment I recall is when he jumped on the yuma-wagon since yuma looked scummy, saying he was responding to blatant rolefishing.  Then he unvotes 3 pages later, saying "I hoped more scum had jumped at this; see what I was doing there by cleverly setting a trap and voting for role-fishing? Obviously i didn't think yuma was role-fishing" except you did think yuma was rolefishing.  This is either the weirdest way to hop off a wagon that's not going anywhere, or is simply a bad "gambit".  It's not clever.  Sure, it generated discussion, but I can't figure out why none of it was directed at you.  I'm 100% a voltgloss lynch today.

ftl: ftl is the other quiet coaster i'm suspicious of.  I'm 80% behind an ftl lynch today. 

I'm tired so I'm going to sleep.