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[eHalcyon]

I will be suspicious of the people on your wagon, I will not tell you more as it has criteria based on NK's as well. Saying anymore than that voids it if I say I will be suspicious of X if Y dies and X is mafia then they don't kill Y, if X isn't mafia they can kill Y to frame X.

Are you talking about the ehunt wagon that cropped up during what was arguably still RVS?  I don't think that wagon would be any more informational than it is right now.

If ehunt flipped town, would you be suspicious of people who voted to lynch ehunt on the basis that it would be informational?  I would.

[ftl]

Reread eHalc, in honor of Voltgloss's dead case. I  don't think the arguing against meta-reads is scummy or townie per se; I mean, as town or as scum, it's quite possible for eHal to have a role that doesn't match his meta. He did have a few comments about cult-hunting, which sounded a bit like the sk-hunting which is supposed to be a mafia tell. ...he's also not placed a single vote on anyone yet! Who do you suspect, eHal?

I don't have any particularly strong reads, but here are my lynch candidates:
1) Shraeye. Repeatedly voting for one person while arguing for other people, townish-sounding words but scum-looking voting. That's where my vote is.
2) Glooble. I don't remember much by him but I think I got a scum vibe.
3) ibgtennis. Yeah, I still have a soft spot for lynching someone just for a low post count, so people can't get away with what Robz did D1 of BMV. But fine, there's no lynch-all-lurkers meta, doesn't mean I have to stop listing him.

Sort of meh-ish on either ehal lynch, it seems okay at the moment after the reread but I can see myself looking back on it and being like damn that was a stupid lynch of someone for being active. So I won't put it on my list. Don't really have a townread on him either though. Same with insom. Lynches 'for information' are a terrible idea.

[eHalcyon]

It was never the Volt case, it was how you reacted to Volt saying he had a case, and how you reacted when Volt finally did say what his case was based on.

3rd vote: eHalcyon -- I think Volt's a clever guy, subbing out is normally something town does, and eHal has been dismissive of the case while it wasn't up

According to your initial reason, it certainly has something to do with Volt. 

Oh, I just figured out what you meant by "subbing out".  I disagree -- subbing out is something anyone does when they have IRL commitments that take precedence.  It says nothing about alignment.

[ehunt]

he's quite different from town-ehunt in my MVI aswell, which was still quite large.

Ehunt is usually active and has a calm cool head (except when he's drunk or about to be lynched), and consistent meta. This game breaks all of that.

(Warning to new folks - next paragraph = argument about old games):

I want to point out that O made the exact same argument in MIX to get me lynched (he was power-role scum and I was town doctor in that game, although two caveats - a. I think in that other game he genuinely believed I was scum (there were two scumteams in that game so it made sense for scum to scumhunt) and b. I think in this game, despite this analogy, that O is probably town*).

Look, I really wish you knew me IRL to say "calm cool head." I have not had a "calm cool head" at any point in my existence as a human being. I am a highly impulsive and emotional person who latches onto an idea and cannot let it go. I wish theorel were in this game so he could confirm this. I did talk more in MVI (although a lot of my talkativeness was after day one), but I said I would talk less in this game before receiving my role PM, have been V/LA this weekend, and have been really talkative in this game nonetheless since the first day or so, certainly more talkative than a lot of folks who are voting for me. So I think the "ehunt has a different personality this game from the other games" argument is bunk.

*footnote: I think the prohibition on OMGUS is junk-science from people who spend too much time reading the mafiascum wiki and not enough time thinking for themselves (as are several of the other "tells.") In MIX I correctly called 4 out of the 5 scum on my wagon and identified the 2 town on it, but instead I was lynched despite being a claimed doctor because people were like "you're OMGUSing." In this game, however, I am having a harder time calling scum on my wagon. I don't think this is primarily a scumwagon like the one in MIX was, it could be all town, or maybe one of the quieter votes (eevee is the only one I can think of; there may be others) is scum. I do think Insom is suspicious for saying my wagon will be informational (and pseudo-voting for me) without providing any actual details.

[Insomniac]

I will be suspicious of the people on your wagon, I will not tell you more as it has criteria based on NK's as well. Saying anymore than that voids it if I say I will be suspicious of X if Y dies and X is mafia then they don't kill Y, if X isn't mafia they can kill Y to frame X.

Are you talking about the ehunt wagon that cropped up during what was arguably still RVS?  I don't think that wagon would be any more informational than it is right now.

If ehunt flipped town, would you be suspicious of people who voted to lynch ehunt on the basis that it would be informational?  I would.

This is what I mean with you're reaction, I put any amount of pressure on you at all and you jump on anything you can to go "I'm not scummy the people accusing me are" Galzria hasn't given you anything else to accuse him on so silly me for continuing to talk to you.

[Insomniac]

It was never the Volt case, it was how you reacted to Volt saying he had a case, and how you reacted when Volt finally did say what his case was based on.

3rd vote: eHalcyon -- I think Volt's a clever guy, subbing out is normally something town does, and eHal has been dismissive of the case while it wasn't up

According to your initial reason, it certainly has something to do with Volt. 

Oh, I just figured out what you meant by "subbing out".  I disagree -- subbing out is something anyone does when they have IRL commitments that take precedence.  It says nothing about alignment.

The case as he presented it is weak, I suspect had he had the time the case would have been much more thorough and brought up good reasons for why you were scum. I think Volt is a clever guy and has often written cases that are good

[eHalcyon]

Reread eHalc, in honor of Voltgloss's dead case. I  don't think the arguing against meta-reads is scummy or townie per se; I mean, as town or as scum, it's quite possible for eHal to have a role that doesn't match his meta. He did have a few comments about cult-hunting, which sounded a bit like the sk-hunting which is supposed to be a mafia tell. ...he's also not placed a single vote on anyone yet! Who do you suspect, eHal?

I think I talked a bit more about Cult hunting.  Cults are far more dangerous than SKs, and I would say that a traditional Cult is more dangerous than even Mafia.  That said, I never actually tried to cult-hunt because... how do?

I voted for jo at one point.

For suspicions, refer back to #958.  It all still holds true.  I am feeling the tug of OMGUS, but I'm trying to resist it from colouring my suspicions.




Uhh, I was supposed to re-read some players over the weekend but I did not get the chance.  Oops.

[eHalcyon]

I will be suspicious of the people on your wagon, I will not tell you more as it has criteria based on NK's as well. Saying anymore than that voids it if I say I will be suspicious of X if Y dies and X is mafia then they don't kill Y, if X isn't mafia they can kill Y to frame X.

Are you talking about the ehunt wagon that cropped up during what was arguably still RVS?  I don't think that wagon would be any more informational than it is right now.

If ehunt flipped town, would you be suspicious of people who voted to lynch ehunt on the basis that it would be informational?  I would.

This is what I mean with you're reaction, I put any amount of pressure on you at all and you jump on anything you can to go "I'm not scummy the people accusing me are" Galzria hasn't given you anything else to accuse him on so silly me for continuing to talk to you.

I don't understand this post at all.

The post you are quoting is about ehunt, not me.  In that post, I did not say anyone was scummy. 

Unless you are talking about my reference to "people who voted to lynch ehunt on the basis that it would be informational"?  That's if ehunt flipped town, and the point of it is that I'm not going to let people get away with lynching PURELY for informational purposes.  I have given my arguments for that already.  I believe the actual lynch wagon is the best info we get out of day 1, and I won't let it be neutered by pursuing an "informational lynch", where said information is based on an RVS wagon.  No, the lynch wagon is better, and I want it to be used even if the people on that wagon voted because it would be "informational".

Vote for ehunt if you think he is scum.  Vote for me if you think I am scum.  We'll go from there.

[Insomniac]

I will be suspicious of the people on your wagon, I will not tell you more as it has criteria based on NK's as well. Saying anymore than that voids it if I say I will be suspicious of X if Y dies and X is mafia then they don't kill Y, if X isn't mafia they can kill Y to frame X.

Are you talking about the ehunt wagon that cropped up during what was arguably still RVS?  I don't think that wagon would be any more informational than it is right now.

If ehunt flipped town, would you be suspicious of people who voted to lynch ehunt on the basis that it would be informational?  I would.

This is what I mean with you're reaction, I put any amount of pressure on you at all and you jump on anything you can to go "I'm not scummy the people accusing me are" Galzria hasn't given you anything else to accuse him on so silly me for continuing to talk to you.

I don't understand this post at all.

The post you are quoting is about ehunt, not me.  In that post, I did not say anyone was scummy. 

Unless you are talking about my reference to "people who voted to lynch ehunt on the basis that it would be informational"?  That's if ehunt flipped town, and the point of it is that I'm not going to let people get away with lynching PURELY for informational purposes.  I have given my arguments for that already.  I believe the actual lynch wagon is the best info we get out of day 1, and I won't let it be neutered by pursuing an "informational lynch", where said information is based on an RVS wagon.  No, the lynch wagon is better, and I want it to be used even if the people on that wagon voted because it would be "informational".

Vote for ehunt if you think he is scum.  Vote for me if you think I am scum.  We'll go from there.

I'll play how I want to play. I do not think the ehunt wagon was RVS, and its not PURELY for informational purposes I believe he has just about as good a chance at being scum as anybody else in here.

[eHalcyon]

I'll play how I want to play. I do not think the ehunt wagon was RVS, and its not PURELY for informational purposes I believe he has just about as good a chance at being scum as anybody else in here.

Fair enough.

[cayvie]

Vote: Voltaire -- it's my case I still like it
2nd vote - eHunt -- it's informational
3rd vote: eHalcyon -- I think Volt's a clever guy, subbing out is normally something town does, and eHal has been dismissive of the case while it wasn't up

I just wanna say that, unless you think Volt is making up the excuse that his wife's pregnant, surely anyone would sub out in his sitch, scum or town. Him subbing out has no bearing on his alignment.

[Insomniac]

Vote: Voltaire -- it's my case I still like it
2nd vote - eHunt -- it's informational
3rd vote: eHalcyon -- I think Volt's a clever guy, subbing out is normally something town does, and eHal has been dismissive of the case while it wasn't up

I just wanna say that, unless you think Volt is making up the excuse that his wife's pregnant, surely anyone would sub out in his sitch, scum or town. Him subbing out has no bearing on his alignment.

Thats fair, the normally town does thing is that I do not think we have seen a game where scum has subbed out (Resistance II barred as its not mafia)

[ehunt]

Vote: Voltaire -- it's my case I still like it
2nd vote - eHunt -- it's informational
3rd vote: eHalcyon -- I think Volt's a clever guy, subbing out is normally something town does, and eHal has been dismissive of the case while it wasn't up

I just wanna say that, unless you think Volt is making up the excuse that his wife's pregnant, surely anyone would sub out in his sitch, scum or town. Him subbing out has no bearing on his alignment.

Thats fair, the normally town does thing is that I do not think we have seen a game where scum has subbed out (Resistance II barred as its not mafia)

scumfrisk subbed out for pps in MIX

[Insomniac]

Vote: Voltaire -- it's my case I still like it
2nd vote - eHunt -- it's informational
3rd vote: eHalcyon -- I think Volt's a clever guy, subbing out is normally something town does, and eHal has been dismissive of the case while it wasn't up

I just wanna say that, unless you think Volt is making up the excuse that his wife's pregnant, surely anyone would sub out in his sitch, scum or town. Him subbing out has no bearing on his alignment.

Thats fair, the normally town does thing is that I do not think we have seen a game where scum has subbed out (Resistance II barred as its not mafia)

scumfrisk subbed out for pps in MIX

Ok I retract that part of my statement fully then. The rest of it stands.

[cayvie]

Hmm, weird parallels between Grujah and Glooble.

Each is semi-lurking, each has a post where the other is his top pick for scum, each tries for a drunk AMA.

Tried to look over the major wagon candidates, decided it would make more sense to just look over everyone I'm looking specifically for people with a lot of contentless posts, and/or just straight-up lurkers.

1. Ftl - few recent posts, most of them IIoA (hypocritical, since strictly speaking that's what this post is, but I need to collect my thoughts.) Neutral read.
2. Voltgloss - slight town read, mostly from his set-up/ reaction to the yuma wagon, which seems like a town gambit to me more than a scum gambit. Less active than he usually is, but I could attribute this to the size of the town.
3. Eevee - one of the main players at this juncture. Not a candidate for a D1 lynch.
4. Grujah - still my top candidate. He has two substantive posts I found - the one voting for me for "playing just how I always play" and an analysis of everyone's metas, which would be such an easy way for scum to get in a long post without forming any opinions.
5. Insomniac - really hard to navigate with how many other games he's modding/playing, but he doesn't look great. Jumping from wagon to wagon, lots of accusing, not much evidence. That's not necessarily scummy on day one though, and it means flips will tell us more about him.
6. Glooble - modconfirmed to me as town.
7. Dsell - one of my former scumbuddies, and a damn good SK iirc. He's been unmemorable this game. On reading his recent posts, though, I get a town vibe. He's gone after Axxle and defended O, so he has opinions that will be helpful when people start dying.
8. Jotheonah - if he's scum, he's doing a pretty good job of it. Looks town to me so far.
9. Young Nick - I don't envy his upcoming slog.
10. Voltaire - I'll hold off on him until he posts these "thoughts" from this "reread".
11. Axxle - still think he's more likely town for reasons I've stated earlier re: the double-vote.
12. O - strong town read.

I'm gonna post this half now, then work on the next half, so I don't get too far behind the times while I'm composing.

Pre-post edit - this is as of 16 posts ago.

I find any votes based solely on shar's "I got caught" straight-out bad. It was obvious sarcasm, when you read the whole thing (sentence before) as a whole. Bolding just the part that makes him look scummy without whole content is scummy.


That being said, vote: Glooble. He is acting just like he acts always as scum! He comes out of lurk with a vote on a established wagon. Classic Globscum.

I'm here. Drunk. AMA.

What Grujah said. Totally drunk now, will answer any question honestly so as to prove my towniness.
 
Though this didn't work out so well for ehunt in MVI.

[Axxle]

eHal has been dismissive of the case while it wasn't up

[/quote]
What? eHalc was dismissive of a case that wasn't presented to him? How strange! /sarcasm

[Axxle]

Hmm, weird parallels between Grujah and Glooble.

Weird as in scummy?

[cayvie]

Hmm, weird parallels between Grujah and Glooble.

Weird as in scummy?

not sure? thought i'd point it out and let people see for themselves.

i could definitely see it as scum distancing, though.

[jotheonah]

Glooble tried for a drunk AMA, I asked him a question, and he totally ignored it.

I would FOS him for that, but I'm pretty sure he just passed out at the computer a few minutes after he made the post.

[Robz888]

Vote Count 1.19

shraeye (4) -- Axxle, ftl, Captain_Frisk
ehunt (2) -- Eevee, jotheonah
Glooble (1) -- yuma
Grujah (2) -- Glooble, Morgrim7
Voltaire (1) -- Insomniac
Captain_Frisk (3) -- Watno, Cuzz, ashersky
Young Nick (1) -- cayvie
Watno (1) -- TheMunch
Axxle (1) -- Young Nick
jotheonah (1) -- Voltaire
eHalcyon (1) -- Galzria

Not Voting (8 ) -- Dsell, Grujah, ibgtennis, O, eHalcyon, ehunt, shraeye, sparky5856

With 25 alive it takes 13 to lynch. Day 1 deadline is Saturday, September 29th at 1:00 PM (EDT)

REMINDER: sparky5856 has replaced Voltgloss

[shraeye]

i Have finished my reread, but haven't yet focused on the players enough to give an assessment of where my reads are pointing yet.  I will send this to Robz and hopefully he can post a link to GoogleDocs or something.  As to why it can't be in the thread, it is huge.  Just almost a full 12 pages in Word.  I know that it's size makes it more impractical as a summary that players can use to catch up, but I wanted to be thorough.

It contains an objective viewpoint/summary of everything that I considered not fluff.  If you point out that I missed a "crucial post" that you made, I will kindly invite you to sit down and try to make a summary for yourself.  Here is how it can be very useful, especially for day 2.  Once we know the alignments of a few players, we can highlight those names in green (good=town) and red (bad=scum) and some other color if there are two factions, or something unexpected.  This summary has virtually every interaction between players so you can see who defended whom, who attacked whom for what, etc.

To help organize thought/arguments/discussions that spanned multiple pages, I have a guide to some major arguments at the beginning of the document. (example: DSell-wagon [9.2, 10.1, 11.3, 12.5] means that people can find posts related to DSell's wagon on page 9 summary, topic 2. Also on page 10 topic 1, etc.)
Sometimes different arguments ran together and I've tried mostly to crosspost them in this index area.  As much as possible, I tried to separate a single post with multiple topics into different "arguments" (Also sometimes in the summary I say something like "asher responds to Arg22.1" which means that his comment responds to something that was in the 1st topic of page 22's summary).  I probably made some mistakes and pre-apologize.

I also have a hand-written voting record, and I'm going to type that up soon.

[Axxle]

he's quite different from town-ehunt in my MVI aswell, which was still quite large.

Ehunt is usually active and has a calm cool head (except when he's drunk or about to be lynched), and consistent meta. This game breaks all of that.

(Warning to new folks - next paragraph = argument about old games):

I want to point out that O made the exact same argument in MIX to get me lynched (he was power-role scum and I was town doctor in that game, although two caveats - a. I think in that other game he genuinely believed I was scum (there were two scumteams in that game so it made sense for scum to scumhunt) and b. I think in this game, despite this analogy, that O is probably town*).

I really really really really really, *gasp*, really really really really don't see the point of this.  "Look O did this thing as scum before! But I think he did it because he thought I was otherscum.  And I think he's town now... and..."

Vote: eHunt

You be not making much sense bro.
(other votes shraeye and whoever's pushing eHalc)

[Axxle]

he's quite different from town-ehunt in my MVI aswell, which was still quite large.

Ehunt is usually active and has a calm cool head (except when he's drunk or about to be lynched), and consistent meta. This game breaks all of that.

(Warning to new folks - next paragraph = argument about old games):

I want to point out that O made the exact same argument in MIX to get me lynched (he was power-role scum and I was town doctor in that game, although two caveats - a. I think in that other game he genuinely believed I was scum (there were two scumteams in that game so it made sense for scum to scumhunt) and b. I think in this game, despite this analogy, that O is probably town*).

I really really really really really, *gasp*, really really really really don't see the point of this.  "Look O did this thing as scum before! But I think he did it because he thought I was otherscum.  And I think he's town now... and..."

Vote: eHunt

You be not making much sense bro.
(other votes shraeye and whoever's pushing eHalc)

(what I mean is eHunt is hedging royally)

[shraeye]

Within a topic in a page summary (i'll look at 10.2 for example), different posts on that page are seperated by a ";".  Post numbers are occasionally supplied and are given in parentheses.

[ehunt]

he's quite different from town-ehunt in my MVI aswell, which was still quite large.

Ehunt is usually active and has a calm cool head (except when he's drunk or about to be lynched), and consistent meta. This game breaks all of that.

(Warning to new folks - next paragraph = argument about old games):

I want to point out that O made the exact same argument in MIX to get me lynched (he was power-role scum and I was town doctor in that game, although two caveats - a. I think in that other game he genuinely believed I was scum (there were two scumteams in that game so it made sense for scum to scumhunt) and b. I think in this game, despite this analogy, that O is probably town*).

I really really really really really, *gasp*, really really really really don't see the point of this.  "Look O did this thing as scum before! But I think he did it because he thought I was otherscum.  And I think he's town now... and..."

Vote: eHunt

You be not making much sense bro.
(other votes shraeye and whoever's pushing eHalc)

In this post I am doing the following:

I am answering O's argument that I am scummy because I am acting differently. I am answering this by pointing out that O said I was acting differently in MIX as well. He has an incorrect conception that my default mode of being is calm and this is quite false. I am also clarifying that I am not calling O scummy by quoting MIX, since he was "scum looking for scum" in that game.

I do not see what doesn't make sense.