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[Voltaire]

Just updating my list, trying to get this started. Reasons for 1 and 2 provided earlier, for lack of a better option 3 Frisk is back on the list but at the lowest spot.

Vote: jotheonah
2nd vote: Watno
3rd vote: Captain_Frisk

[Watno]

I really don't like the idea of lynching Axxle just because he's probably a doublevoter.
I'm ok with the yuma's deadline plan, and I want everyone to either agree or give a reason for not doing so.

[jotheonah]

Vote: ehunt
2nd vote - Watno
3rd vote - eHalcyon

P.S. I suggest this format so we don't accidentally vote with our secondary and tertiary votes.

[Insomniac]

Vote: Voltaire -- it's my case I still like it
2nd vote - eHunt -- it's informational
3rd vote: eHalcyon -- I think Volt's a clever guy, subbing out is normally something town does, and eHal has been dismissive of the case while it wasn't up

[eHalcyon]

Folks, I am so sorry, but I think I need to replace out. 

What I discovered this weekend is that my wife - who is very pregnant (we are due to deliver next month) - has conclusively hit that vastly uncomfortable stage of pregnancy which requires my assisting her pretty much all the time when I am home.  The entire weekend was devoted to that.  That, plus work responsibilities, means that - for at least the next few weeks - I just don't have time to keep up with this thread.  (It's all I can do to keep up with CE and modding M-XII.)

The case on eHalc was grounded on his strong opposition to discussing Robz-meta, ostensibly because his own role (he says) does not fit any meta relating to eHalc.  This struck me as odd because (1) in the sign-up thread, Robz specifically said that roles and alignments were, at least for SOME players, partially based on meta; and (2) I don't think other people were really pushing the meta-discussion very hard when eHalc raised this a second time.  Why was he so vehemently opposed to such discussion?  Maybe because he was concerned it would lead to outing - if not him - maybe one of his scum-teammates?

I was planning to do a deeper dive into eHalc's posts to see if this reason for suspicion was buttressed by other behavior but, as said above, I simply had zero time to do so despite my best efforts.

Again, my deepest apologies all.  Unvote, as my replacement may feel differently than I do.

This is such terrible reasoning.  I've already clearly explained why I was against meta speculation, but I'll outline it again:

- Robz clearly stated that any basis would be subtle
- not only that, but some would be random anyway
- meta discussion is therefore the weakest basis for scumhunting, and discussion on those lines is extremely unproductive

[eHalcyon]

Vote: Voltaire -- it's my case I still like it
2nd vote - eHunt -- it's informational
3rd vote: eHalcyon -- I think Volt's a clever guy, subbing out is normally something town does, and eHal has been dismissive of the case while it wasn't up

Dismissive?  I've been waiting for it.  And what finally came has been extremely underwhelming.  Not sure what you mean by "subbing out".

But thanks for giving reasons for each of your picks, anyway.  I think everyone else should as well.

[Insomniac]

Vote: Voltaire -- it's my case I still like it
2nd vote - eHunt -- it's informational
3rd vote: eHalcyon -- I think Volt's a clever guy, subbing out is normally something town does, and eHal has been dismissive of the case while it wasn't up

Dismissive?  I've been waiting for it.  And what finally came has been extremely underwhelming.  Not sure what you mean by "subbing out".

But thanks for giving reasons for each of your picks, anyway.  I think everyone else should as well.

Well dismissive probably isn't the correct reason, but what I mean by it is that you were waiting for it but it didn't feel to me like you were actually waiting for it, and then you teased the town by saying you could see a legitimate case against you but never actually said what it was. Would you be willing to shed a light on that case yet?

[eHalcyon]

Vote: Voltaire -- it's my case I still like it
2nd vote - eHunt -- it's informational
3rd vote: eHalcyon -- I think Volt's a clever guy, subbing out is normally something town does, and eHal has been dismissive of the case while it wasn't up

Dismissive?  I've been waiting for it.  And what finally came has been extremely underwhelming.  Not sure what you mean by "subbing out".

But thanks for giving reasons for each of your picks, anyway.  I think everyone else should as well.

Well dismissive probably isn't the correct reason, but what I mean by it is that you were waiting for it but it didn't feel to me like you were actually waiting for it, and then you teased the town by saying you could see a legitimate case against you but never actually said what it was. Would you be willing to shed a light on that case yet?

...are you even reading the posts?

Please, tell us about the legitimate but misguided case you're imagining. It'll help pass the time.

Just that I was less involved than usual, especially at the start of the game.  I didn't take much of a stance on the early wagons.  But I said before role PMs were sent that I would try to be less active than before, because it's just so time consuming.  Not to mention that difference in play from previous games doesn't say much, because I've only played two regular games and was JK in one and scum in the other.

On another note,

FOS: Volt

Volt teases at a big case against me, making it sound like he has a lot written up but it just needs some polish.  Turns out there is nothing at all, and the seed of it is entirely worthless (IMO).  It also reminds me of MIII, where Volt was scum.

I'll let it go because of his IRL busy-ness and need to /out, but still -- FOS.

[eHalcyon]

Vote: Voltaire -- it's my case I still like it
2nd vote - eHunt -- it's informational
3rd vote: eHalcyon -- I think Volt's a clever guy, subbing out is normally something town does, and eHal has been dismissive of the case while it wasn't up

Dismissive?  I've been waiting for it.  And what finally came has been extremely underwhelming.  Not sure what you mean by "subbing out".

But thanks for giving reasons for each of your picks, anyway.  I think everyone else should as well.

Well dismissive probably isn't the correct reason, but what I mean by it is that you were waiting for it but it didn't feel to me like you were actually waiting for it, and then you teased the town by saying you could see a legitimate case against you but never actually said what it was. Would you be willing to shed a light on that case yet?

By the way, what do you mean that it didn't feel like I was actually waiting for it?  What did you expect me to do, constantly ask about it and worry about it?  I was anticipating it, and not because it was something against me but because I was interested in what Volt had to say, mostly as a way to get a better read on Volt.

[Galzria]

Vote: eHalcyon - something about the way he's reacting to this reads really scummy to me. Like, yes, Volt said he had a "case"... But he also said on multiple occasions that it wasn't concrete, and that he still needed to read back to flesh out it's full merit. eHal is just way overreacting here to what ultimately was a FoS from a player who generally has good reads. I don't know if Volt was right or not, but his base accusation aside, eHal seems scummy in his responses since.

Second vote - Watno - I found Munch to be pretty clear awhile back, and the way Watno keep pushing him and twisting Munch's meaning seemed really off to me. I don't know that scum would be so bold, but I wouldn't rule it out, and he really stood out to me as scummy in that debate.

Third vote - Grujah - He's still lurking, and while he's doing so across multiple games, that doesn't make it any more or less likely that he's scum here. There's plenty to offer opinions about and commit yourself to. Don't hide behind "there's nothing to say".

Fourth vote - O - He still hasn't said anything meaningful.

[Insomniac]

Vote: Voltaire -- it's my case I still like it
2nd vote - eHunt -- it's informational
3rd vote: eHalcyon -- I think Volt's a clever guy, subbing out is normally something town does, and eHal has been dismissive of the case while it wasn't up

Dismissive?  I've been waiting for it.  And what finally came has been extremely underwhelming.  Not sure what you mean by "subbing out".

But thanks for giving reasons for each of your picks, anyway.  I think everyone else should as well.

Well dismissive probably isn't the correct reason, but what I mean by it is that you were waiting for it but it didn't feel to me like you were actually waiting for it, and then you teased the town by saying you could see a legitimate case against you but never actually said what it was. Would you be willing to shed a light on that case yet?

By the way, what do you mean that it didn't feel like I was actually waiting for it?  What did you expect me to do, constantly ask about it and worry about it?  I was anticipating it, and not because it was something against me but because I was interested in what Volt had to say, mostly as a way to get a better read on Volt.

The thing is YOU did constantly ask and talk about it, but not in a way that seemed like you cared at all because you had your rebuttal all typed up for anything he could throw at you.

[eHalcyon]

Vote: eHalcyon - something about the way he's reacting to this reads really scummy to me. Like, yes, Volt said he had a "case"... But he also said on multiple occasions that it wasn't concrete, and that he still needed to read back to flesh out it's full merit. eHal is just way overreacting here to what ultimately was a FoS from a player who generally has good reads. I don't know if Volt was right or not, but his base accusation aside, eHal seems scummy in his responses since.

Second vote - Watno - I found Munch to be pretty clear awhile back, and the way Watno keep pushing him and twisting Munch's meaning seemed really off to me. I don't know that scum would be so bold, but I wouldn't rule it out, and he really stood out to me as scummy in that debate.

Third vote - Grujah - He's still lurking, and while he's doing so across multiple games, that doesn't make it any more or less likely that he's scum here. There's plenty to offer opinions about and commit yourself to. Don't hide behind "there's nothing to say".

Fourth vote - O - He still hasn't said anything meaningful.

He said it wasn't concrete, but it sounded like he had something.  But he doesn't have anything at all.

How have I over-reacted?

[eHalcyon]

The thing is YOU did constantly ask and talk about it, but not in a way that seemed like you cared at all because you had your rebuttal all typed up for anything he could throw at you.

Constantly?  I think not.  I asked about it maybe three times.  In the mean time, I carried on several productive conversations.  How in the world would I have a rebuttal typed up to a case that hadn't been given?  The way you are pushing this looks scummy to me.

[Robz888]

NOTE: Voltgloss has been replaced by sparky5856. The introductory information post will be updated to reflect this. Please remember that some roles and alignments may or may not have been modeled on specific player's characteristics, metas, or forum histories and as such, keep in mind that sparky5856 was originally Voltgloss.

[Axxle]

I don't understand this push on eHalc.  Voltgloss's case on him was incredibly non-existent.

[O]

I don't understand this push on eHalc.  Voltgloss's case on him was incredibly non-existent.

I agree

[ehunt]

1. I'm OK with the Yuma deadline plan. I'm not totally clear on what happens when deadline is reached. I am emphatically not OK with a plurality of say, five, becoming a reason to lynch someone. If you lynch town, you have to be held accountable for it, you can't be allowed to get away with "oh, but the plurality was on that person after the Yuma-plan."

2. I will do my primary/secondary/tertiary asap. I have some catching up to do before casting a vote.

3. I am convinced that Robz assigned Axxle the double-voter business before Robz assigned Axxle an alignment and role. Same with my own assignment: I am convinced that the special stuff about me that I alluded to earlier was assigned before my alignment was. It makes the most sense for two reasons; one, I'd prefer not to explain, but the other seems harmless to explain: Robz somehow has to balance the game fairly and give personality-based special flavor. The best way I can figure out to do this would be to figure out personality-flavor first and assign alignment later.

4. I think Volt's case on eHalc is weak, for reasons similar to 3.

[ehunt]

I need to be careful not to abbreviate Voltgloss as Volt, sorry. I meant voltgloss, now sparky, in point 4 of my previous post, not Voltaire.

[Voltaire]

I need to be careful not to abbreviate Voltgloss as Volt, sorry. I meant voltgloss, now sparky, in point 4 of my previous post, not Voltaire.

I'd like to again suggest that Voltgloss can still go by Volt, as he always has, if I just go by V.

[ehunt]

Vote: Voltaire -- it's my case I still like it
2nd vote - eHunt -- it's informational
3rd vote: eHalcyon -- I think Volt's a clever guy, subbing out is normally something town does, and eHal has been dismissive of the case while it wasn't up

You need to commit. When you say "it's informational," do you mean, "it's informational cause I think ehunt is scummy?" If so, you need to say so. Do not let Insomniac get away with saying "I just voted ehunt for the information."

[Insomniac]

The thing is YOU did constantly ask and talk about it, but not in a way that seemed like you cared at all because you had your rebuttal all typed up for anything he could throw at you.

Constantly?  I think not.  I asked about it maybe three times.  In the mean time, I carried on several productive conversations.  How in the world would I have a rebuttal typed up to a case that hadn't been given?  The way you are pushing this looks scummy to me.

You could have typed up a rebuttal to anything you've done that seems scummy and just parsed out the information that was relevant and posted that, though waiting to make your rebuttal would probably make a much cleaner rebuttal.

To those claiming this eHal push is bad, why? Why is it bad to put pressure on someone, I don't think Voltgloss's case was all that good but eHal has reacted in a way that deserves a bit of heat IMO.


eHunt: I am 50/50 on you, it's informational because you had a big wagon on you and if you flip scum or town I know better how to look at the people that wagon'd you. So I'm not saying your scummy or not, because I could see you flipping either way.

[ehunt]

The thing is YOU did constantly ask and talk about it, but not in a way that seemed like you cared at all because you had your rebuttal all typed up for anything he could throw at you.

Constantly?  I think not.  I asked about it maybe three times.  In the mean time, I carried on several productive conversations.  How in the world would I have a rebuttal typed up to a case that hadn't been given?  The way you are pushing this looks scummy to me.

You could have typed up a rebuttal to anything you've done that seems scummy and just parsed out the information that was relevant and posted that, though waiting to make your rebuttal would probably make a much cleaner rebuttal.

To those claiming this eHal push is bad, why? Why is it bad to put pressure on someone, I don't think Voltgloss's case was all that good but eHal has reacted in a way that deserves a bit of heat IMO.


eHunt: I am 50/50 on you, it's informational because you had a big wagon on you and if you flip scum or town I know better how to look at the people that wagon'd you. So I'm not saying your scummy or not, because I could see you flipping either way.

OK, but you have a "second vote" on me, which could cause me to get lynched per the yuma system. You claim that you'll learn something from an ehunt-lynch. Tell me more. Who will you be suspicious of tomorrow if your second-vote on ehunt becomes successful? You can't get away with "I'll learn something." What will you learn? Who will you vote for?

[Insomniac]

The thing is YOU did constantly ask and talk about it, but not in a way that seemed like you cared at all because you had your rebuttal all typed up for anything he could throw at you.

Constantly?  I think not.  I asked about it maybe three times.  In the mean time, I carried on several productive conversations.  How in the world would I have a rebuttal typed up to a case that hadn't been given?  The way you are pushing this looks scummy to me.

You could have typed up a rebuttal to anything you've done that seems scummy and just parsed out the information that was relevant and posted that, though waiting to make your rebuttal would probably make a much cleaner rebuttal.

To those claiming this eHal push is bad, why? Why is it bad to put pressure on someone, I don't think Voltgloss's case was all that good but eHal has reacted in a way that deserves a bit of heat IMO.


eHunt: I am 50/50 on you, it's informational because you had a big wagon on you and if you flip scum or town I know better how to look at the people that wagon'd you. So I'm not saying your scummy or not, because I could see you flipping either way.

OK, but you have a "second vote" on me, which could cause me to get lynched per the yuma system. You claim that you'll learn something from an ehunt-lynch. Tell me more. Who will you be suspicious of tomorrow if your second-vote on ehunt becomes successful? You can't get away with "I'll learn something." What will you learn? Who will you vote for?

I will be suspicious of the people on your wagon, I will not tell you more as it has criteria based on NK's as well. Saying anymore than that voids it if I say I will be suspicious of X if Y dies and X is mafia then they don't kill Y, if X isn't mafia they can kill Y to frame X.

[eHalcyon]

You could have typed up a rebuttal to anything you've done that seems scummy and just parsed out the information that was relevant and posted that, though waiting to make your rebuttal would probably make a much cleaner rebuttal.

If I were scummy and thought that doing something would seem scummy, I just wouldn't have done it in the first place.

To those claiming this eHal push is bad, why? Why is it bad to put pressure on someone, I don't think Voltgloss's case was all that good but eHal has reacted in a way that deserves a bit of heat IMO.

Please expand on this.  Galzria too, because he actually put me as his top vote.

In what way has my reaction been scummy?  You say this, but provide no quotes and no case.

For your part, Ins, your reason did seem to be based on Volt having a case on me.  But now you admit that his case was weak.

[Insomniac]

You could have typed up a rebuttal to anything you've done that seems scummy and just parsed out the information that was relevant and posted that, though waiting to make your rebuttal would probably make a much cleaner rebuttal.

If I were scummy and thought that doing something would seem scummy, I just wouldn't have done it in the first place.

To those claiming this eHal push is bad, why? Why is it bad to put pressure on someone, I don't think Voltgloss's case was all that good but eHal has reacted in a way that deserves a bit of heat IMO.

Please expand on this.  Galzria too, because he actually put me as his top vote.

In what way has my reaction been scummy?  You say this, but provide no quotes and no case.

For your part, Ins, your reason did seem to be based on Volt having a case on me.  But now you admit that his case was weak.

It was never the Volt case, it was how you reacted to Volt saying he had a case, and how you reacted when Volt finally did say what his case was based on.