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[eHalcyon]

Please, tell us about the legitimate but misguided case you're imagining. It'll help pass the time.

Just that I was less involved than usual, especially at the start of the game.  I didn't take much of a stance on the early wagons.  But I said before role PMs were sent that I would try to be less active than before, because it's just so time consuming.  Not to mention that difference in play from previous games doesn't say much, because I've only played two regular games and was JK in one and scum in the other.

[Grujah]

I'm here. Drunk. AMA.

[Robz888]

Grujah stumbled into the courtyard. "Okay, time to really figure out who kidnapped Robz... just as soon as I've had another drink!" EHal, who was sitting in an armchair waiting for an accusation that never came, shrugged and got up to open another cask.

"Eureka! I am ready to present my argument!" declared Voltgloss, an hour later. But everyone in the courtyard had passed out. "Well, I tried," he said with a sigh, and headed back to his room.

Half the day had now expired. Would anyone learn the identity of Robz's kidnapper in time?

***Note to newbies: Paragraphs like this one are pure flavor (they have no bearing on the game).

[eHalcyon]

Wait, Robz was only kidnapped?  I don't think that's lynchworthy at all.

Vote: No Lynch

/jokes

[Axxle]

Yes my accusation was serious and yes that is the quote I was responding to, I didn't want to quote the whole thing and just link it to reduce on clutter.  It's just a really odd defense of Voltaire. Felt like out of nowhere.  And since IX I actually trust Eevee's instincts alot.

Vote: eHunt

unvote. I think it's odd that Voltaire wrote up a summary of the game that didn't include the fact that a couple folks were voting for him. I decided it's town-odd instead of scum-odd. When you're summarizing a game, you maybe don't include votes you think are minor or not part of the major story-arc. If you're scum and someone's voting for you, you know for a fact that that vote is really important to the plot of the game and worthy of being included in a summary. If you're town, I'd think you'd still think the votes on you were important, just because everyone's narrative of the game revolves around themselves a little, but at least there's a chance you could think the vote was unimportant enough that you could leave it out of a summary. Of course Voltaire could be WIFOMing me here, but I think it's a situation where it's genuinely difficult to think ahead - if Voltaire's scum, then in a matter of minutes, he calculated an answer to the question "what it would feel like to be summarizing this game if I were a townie" that I found convincing.

Realized I never really "answered" this, and since I think it's what Axxle was referring to, I just want to say that I only ever had 2 votes on me at once at that point, which was true of lots of people, and nobody seemed to be talking about me without voting (ie Grujah) and so it didn't seem like it was a big part of the narrative. Now that Frisk agrees with Insomniac, and Morgrim says he was ok with a lynch on me, I guess a summary might need to include a mini-Voltaire wagon? Eh.

(obligatory "hey axxle u found scumpair D1!")

PPE: I see ftl thinks Axxle was seriously responding to this, so I guess it's good I posted this.

[Eevee]

Aww Axxle that looks SO scummy! But you probably would have hid the double-vote for longer if you were scum, so I don't know.

[jotheonah]

I don't think Axxle looks scummy.

But the double vote is actually super not evidence either way.

We have no evidence that Axxle has control over the D.V. As far as we can tell, his vote just counts twice. Now, scum or town, trying to hide that would have been really scummy and not very effective. It's not exactly a scum mastermind plan to just decide to be upfront about it. It's the easiest and most obvious decision.

Axxle's meta is all about doing the obvious thing with his powers. I remember one game where he was the cop, and I was SK, must have been MIII. Anyway I remember being struck by how straightforward he was in the use of his power.

TL;DR I get a town read on Axxle, but the double vote is totally irrelevant.

[ehunt]

Phone posting. Bad service but have been keeping up; back tomorrow.

I was voting for Voltaire. The post you quote was me unvoting him and explaining why. Not sure if you knew that or not from the way you quoted it.

Yes my accusation was serious and yes that is the quote I was responding to, I didn't want to quote the whole thing and just link it to reduce on clutter.  It's just a really odd defense of Voltaire. Felt like out of nowhere.  And since IX I actually trust Eevee's instincts alot.

Vote: eHunt

unvote. I think it's odd that Voltaire wrote up a summary of the game that didn't include the fact that a couple folks were voting for him. I decided it's town-odd instead of scum-odd. When you're summarizing a game, you maybe don't include votes you think are minor or not part of the major story-arc. If you're scum and someone's voting for you, you know for a fact that that vote is really important to the plot of the game and worthy of being included in a summary. If you're town, I'd think you'd still think the votes on you were important, just because everyone's narrative of the game revolves around themselves a little, but at least there's a chance you could think the vote was unimportant enough that you could leave it out of a summary. Of course Voltaire could be WIFOMing me here, but I think it's a situation where it's genuinely difficult to think ahead - if Voltaire's scum, then in a matter of minutes, he calculated an answer to the question "what it would feel like to be summarizing this game if I were a townie" that I found convincing.

Realized I never really "answered" this, and since I think it's what Axxle was referring to, I just want to say that I only ever had 2 votes on me at once at that point, which was true of lots of people, and nobody seemed to be talking about me without voting (ie Grujah) and so it didn't seem like it was a big part of the narrative. Now that Frisk agrees with Insomniac, and Morgrim says he was ok with a lynch on me, I guess a summary might need to include a mini-Voltaire wagon? Eh.

(obligatory "hey axxle u found scumpair D1!")

PPE: I see ftl thinks Axxle was seriously responding to this, so I guess it's good I posted this.

[ehunt]

Smiley insertion in last post = accident from phone.

[Axxle]

Oh, that makes the reasons I stated somewhat invalid.  I'll revisit it though if one of you end up flipping scum.

unvote
Vote: shraeye

[ashersky]

Axxle is reading town to me, too.  Not much else to read all weekend, though.

Time to re-start RVS?

[Watno]

I'm also ok with the majority-lynch plan.

I don't think Axxle voting ehunt is scummy and i agree the double vote doesn't tell us about his alignment.

[eHalcyon]

Axxle is reading town to me, too.  Not much else to read all weekend, though.

Time to re-start RVS?

Waiting for Volt's case.

[jotheonah]

Axxle is reading town to me, too.  Not much else to read all weekend, though.

Time to re-start RVS?

You never re-start RVS.

[yuma]

I'm also ok with the majority-lynch plan.

I don't think Axxle voting ehunt is scummy and i agree the double vote doesn't tell us about his alignment.

I agree, but in looking up doublevoter--and there still is speculation that Axxle truly is as such--on mafia scum, I think it is important to realize that as a town role, it is pretty weak. But as a mafia role it can be a huge liability!

For Town, Doublevoter is a very mild power role. While it has the potential to stop Mafia from endgaming the Town when they make up 50% of the living players (because they do not control 50% of the votes), they will usually be targeted to die much earlier than then because of the above point. In addition, possessing two votes does not imply that the doublevoter has any special knowledge about who is scum, and Towns tend to get quite angry if a doublevoter tries to use its power to push its will on the other players. Thus, Doublevoter is an especially weak Town power role that is often treated as an obstacle by the Town.
For scum, Doublevoter is immensely valuable because it allows the faction to endgame the other players (that is, control 50% of the votes) earlier than usual. This is especially true if the scum's doublevote is hidden, as they can fool the Town into believing they have more chances to lynch scum than they actually do. Thus, scum doublevoters are not unheard of but still remarkably powerful.

So I do think that it would be worth discussing at least lynching a double voter, simply to prevent the possibility of a double voter being mafia and having the ability to end game us. See jot using double vote to win as SK in RMMM1 as opposed to town cayvie using her double vote in the same game to lynch a townie....

[Glooble]

What Grujah said. Totally drunk now, will answer any question honestly so as to prove my towniness.
 
Though this didn't work out so well for ehunt in MVI.

[jotheonah]

Do you think you'll ever get a town PM?

[Young Nick]

I am curious about yuma's suggestion to lynch Axxle. It makes sense until you realize how different the dynamic is when there are (almost certainly) multiple scum teams. This would probably make it slightly less valuable. Still, I am not opposed to it. I haven't reread at all, but it seems like there is very little that we know and very few non-RVS reads. That or lynch Eevee for knowing about a Cult.

[Young Nick]

So for now, Vote: Axxle?

[jotheonah]

Young Nick, those are pretty terrible suggestions. And a LOT has happened already.

[Galzria]

I'm also ok with the majority-lynch plan.

I don't think Axxle voting ehunt is scummy and i agree the double vote doesn't tell us about his alignment.

I agree, but in looking up doublevoter--and there still is speculation that Axxle truly is as such--on mafia scum, I think it is important to realize that as a town role, it is pretty weak. But as a mafia role it can be a huge liability!

For Town, Doublevoter is a very mild power role. While it has the potential to stop Mafia from endgaming the Town when they make up 50% of the living players (because they do not control 50% of the votes), they will usually be targeted to die much earlier than then because of the above point. In addition, possessing two votes does not imply that the doublevoter has any special knowledge about who is scum, and Towns tend to get quite angry if a doublevoter tries to use its power to push its will on the other players. Thus, Doublevoter is an especially weak Town power role that is often treated as an obstacle by the Town.
For scum, Doublevoter is immensely valuable because it allows the faction to endgame the other players (that is, control 50% of the votes) earlier than usual. This is especially true if the scum's doublevote is hidden, as they can fool the Town into believing they have more chances to lynch scum than they actually do. Thus, scum doublevoters are not unheard of but still remarkably powerful.

So I do think that it would be worth discussing at least lynching a double voter, simply to prevent the possibility of a double voter being mafia and having the ability to end game us. See jot using double vote to win as SK in RMMM1 as opposed to town cayvie using her double vote in the same game to lynch a townie....

itouch post: I am unlikely to vote axxle...

What changed between then and now? At the time of the second quote, Axxle's apparent double-vote was well documented. I don't think he's exactly been any more scummy since that time...

[yuma]

I don't read Axxle as scum, that hasn't changed. At I certainly am not saying that we should vote Axxle. I am simply saying that in light of what I read on Mafia scum we should at least discuss it, regardless of my own personal read. And I think that the closer we get to a potential scum end game (I know that we aren't close at all yet, but I would rather discuss it sooner, rather than later) the more pressing discussing a double voter becomes.

[Young Nick]

Young Nick, those are pretty terrible suggestions. And a LOT has happened already.

I mean, I asked for summaries and what I got was people saying there was a pretty long RVS and then some heated conversations and not too much came of it. That's my single-sentence understanding of the game so far. My ears are always open though.

[jotheonah]

Young Nick, those are pretty terrible suggestions. And a LOT has happened already.

I mean, I asked for summaries and what I got was people saying there was a pretty long RVS and then some heated conversations and not too much came of it. That's my single-sentence understanding of the game so far. My ears are always open though.

Do you see the problem with this? You can't make the claim "We should do this lame lynch because there's nothing good" when you actually have no idea if there's anything good, because you haven't read the thread. And then to blame it on people's summaries not being good enough.

Also, in response to this:

I am curious about yuma's suggestion to lynch Axxle. It makes sense until you realize how different the dynamic is when there are (almost certainly) multiple scum teams. This would probably make it slightly less valuable. Still, I am not opposed to it. I haven't reread at all, but it seems like there is very little that we know and very few non-RVS reads. That or lynch Eevee for knowing about a Cult.

What do you mean by a non-RVS read?

[shraeye]

Young Nick, those are pretty terrible suggestions. And a LOT has happened already.

I mean, I asked for summaries and what I got was people saying there was a pretty long RVS and then some heated conversations and not too much came of it. That's my single-sentence understanding of the game so far. My ears are always open though.

Oh man, youNgick, I am working on something super crazy.  I call it the best Day2 guide ever.  And it's a forum-page-by-page analysis of arguments that happened and who was involved.  I'm not sure I'll finish it tonight, as I'm half-way through our game so far (just finished page 26 in this thread).  And it's big.  Like "what is the word-count-limit of these posts?" big.  I'll probably just link y'all to a GoogleDoc if I can figure the internet out.  So far, here are some topics that span multiple pages.

Dsell wagon (you'll find it occuring, and being questioned, and analyzed on pages 9-12)
Discussions on meta for different players (page 9 and 11)
Lynch-all-Lurkers policy (12-15, 17-19, 22-26)
Ehunt is trying to shush town/"knows" stuff (10, 13-18, 25)
Yuma wagon (20-23, 25-26)
cayvie's quick unvote on O (24-25)
postcounts (14-15, 25)
Shraeye's sarcastic scumslip vs. actilurking (13-18, 20, 22, 25)
newbie intros (10-11)
morgrim-hunting (10, 16, 18)
Double-voter (12, 15-17)
is RVS good or bad (13, 15)