Ok eHalcyon, I think I see the problem. I think we agree more than you lead on initially, so I'll give you an unovte for now and try to explain myself again. Let me start off by saying, while I like the back and forth, as a new player I cant help but feel it is incredibly dangerous. I fear explaining the same thing in 3 different ways to try to make you understand is only going to end with me getting caught in an unintentional contradiction that I really would rather not get lynched for.
Discussion is how we move forward though. It's no more dangerous than anything else. The alternative is to say nothing at all, for fear of being misconstrued.
Ok the Yuma wagon. I need to pick a better word than mess. I'm not gonna say mess at all cause that seemed to be part of the confusion. My problem wasn't that it just that it grew quickly, or just that it disbanded for what seened like no reason, it was the combination. I saw a bunch of people jump on him for rolefishing (which as a new player, took me a while to figure out why that was so obvious to everyone else). But then as he was defending himself (the part where I claimed to have become more suspicious of him) thats when everyone backed off of him for an "honest mistake." It is the disparity between me finding his defense suspicious and everyone else completely buying it.
That wasn't clear from what you said before, but OK. Still, if lots of people accept yuma's reasoning, it's almost guaranteed that at least some, if not most, of those people are town. I don't see how there is an issue over the wagon growing and then disbanding. It happens all the time, especially on day 1.
I'm not going to talk about O anymore. I've already conceded it was a noob mistake to let my personal fellings about him as a person and his playstyle affect whether or not I wanted to see him die.
OK, I guess.
When I talk about the value of the ehunt wagon I'm talking about the value of information to be gained by ehunts death if we look at the wagon. This is when I figured out that I probably agreed with you more than I originally thought. At the end of your post you argue that you dont think there is any informative lynch from day 1; I think I'm coming to that conclusion slower than you are. I am literally saying in all 4 cases that I want there to be information to be gained from the wagons that have formed but when I go over each wagon I seem to come to the conclusion that there wasn't as much conclusive with the wagons as I wanted there to be. This is why yesterday I made the post asking the question (874) if they saw any wagons with the information that would be useful to us on D2.
You're misunderstanding again. I believe the most valuable information will come from real discussion about player behaviour and the final lynch wagon (both who is on it, and who is not, and their reasons for their choice). The early wagons that end up disbanded don't provide any info. Trying to squeeze info from those wagons isn't productive. There is definitely info from day 1, but your suggestion is not the way to get that info. The final lynch is the most informative, and there should be reasons for that beyond "the flip should be informative".
FWIW Munch, I personally believe that looking at interactions D1, and then proceeding after an informational lynch, is the best philosophy for D1. I don't buy all the "You have to SCUMHUNT" arguments. The whole point is that without information (ie. Flips), there IS NOTHING to scumhunt. Scum isn't going to jump up and down going "Here I an! Look here! Hey, I'm scum over here!". Thus to me, the value of D1 is associations, and actions against "perceived" scumslips (real or otherwise, we won't know until later with... Wait for it... Alignment flips!).
Look at interactions and try to find odd, scummy behaviour. There is plenty to scumhunt in how people respond and react. Absolutely I agree that "the value of D1 is associations, and actions against "perceived" scumslips (real or otherwise, we won't know until later with... Wait for it... Alignment flips!)."
But my point is that we will get all that anyway. People vote based on associations, actions and reactions, and that gives us info. The most important info is the one on the LYNCH. If you decide to lynch to try to eke out info from early RVS wagons, you are giving up the info on the lynch wagon in exchange for weak info on an early stalled wagon.
In the end, I absolutely think an "informative" lynch is the best lynch to pursue D1. And I don't accept the argument that "but if everybody says it was for information, it's no longer informational", because the same can be said about any meathod "But if people were just voting him because he seemed scummy, or did scummy thing X, then there's nothing to analyze!". A lynch (and reveal) is going to do what it does, no matter how you come about the target. For me, I like lurkers, and informational lynches.
This is equivocation. Pursuing an "informative" lynch is a clinical reason. Pursuing a lynch because you think someone was scummy is a useful reason to analyse. "I think this was scummy" gives us associations, reactions, all those things you list as useful to analyse. "I think this will be informative" gives us none of that and neuters the lynch wagon.
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Topic: Mafia XI: Find Yourself in the Courtyard Masquerade -- GAME OVER, TOWN WINS (Read 318871 times)