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[Dsell]

Sometimes I like to read old BGG threads or Amazon reviews about Dominion and its expansions. It's fun to see how people outside this community perceive the game and sometimes, well...misperceive it. I love coming across gems like this from a comment on an Amazon review of Alchemy:

Take, for instance, the Alchemist card, which is perhaps the most powerful card in all of Dominion.

Then, the very next comment:

With that potion in your hand, you'll damn near always have enough money to buy yourself a Philosopher's Stone.

Mmmm mmmm. What a great card.

This stuff is all over the place, but this time I just had to post something.

[verikt]

Sometimes I like to read old BGG threads or Amazon reviews about Dominion and its expansions. It's fun to see how people outside this community perceive the game and sometimes, well...misperceive it. I love coming across gems like this from a comment on an Amazon review of Alchemy:

Take, for instance, the Alchemist card, which is perhaps the .

Then, the very next comment:

With that potion in your hand, you'll damn near always have enough money to buy yourself a Philosopher's Stone.

Mmmm mmmm. What a great card.

Wow! that's great. just imagine being able to draw all your cards with the "most powerful card in all of Dominion" and then have a p-stone -worth 0. Redefining village idiot?

[Grujah]

EXPAND
This action card, at a cost of 7 coins(!), has quickly become a favorite of mine. It allows you to trash a card and gain a new card costing 3 coins more. So, you can trash a Copper in favor of a Silver, then later trash that Silver for a Gold, then trash that Gold for a Platinum.

You mean Mine, righ... oh.

[^_^_^_^]

Lol this thread is already a favorite of mine. Putting this here so I can see this in new replies ^^

[theory]

Sometimes I like to read old BGG threads or Amazon reviews about Dominion and its expansions. It's fun to see how people outside this community perceive the game and sometimes, well...misperceive it. I love coming across gems like this from a comment on an Amazon review of Alchemy:

Take, for instance, the Alchemist card, which is perhaps the .

Then, the very next comment:

With that potion in your hand, you'll damn near always have enough money to buy yourself a Philosopher's Stone.

Mmmm mmmm. What a great card.

Wow! that's great. just imagine being able to draw all your cards with the "most powerful card in all of Dominion" and then have a p-stone -worth 0. Redefining village idiot?

Yeah, what kind of moron would ever do something like that.  Psssshhh.  (They don't appear in my final deck because Trade Route was going to be the only way to ever get money out of them.)

[Dsell]

From a review of Seaside on Amazon:

Finally, the *highly* interactive Spy and Thief are favorites from the original, and they have their analogs in Intrigue/Seaside.

And from Cornucopia, I guess someone had never hit Remake-Copper-Copper-Estate-Estate:

Remake *:
Trash two cards and gain 2 cards costing exactly $1 more than each. Tried using it and it's rarely worthwhile. It'd be better if you could trash up to 2 cards I think. The conditions are too harsh and it costs 4.

[zahlman]

And from Cornucopia, I guess someone had never hit Remake-Copper-Copper-Estate-Estate:

Remake *:
Trash two cards and gain 2 cards costing exactly $1 more than each. Tried using it and it's rarely worthwhile. It'd be better if you could trash up to 2 cards I think. The conditions are too harsh and it costs 4.

I suspect that a lot of beginner/uneducated players don't really think about the effect of the timing of a buy (i.e. whether a card is a good opener, or whether you want to get it lategame with your +Buy even if it's cheap enough to get early), and it almost certainly hasn't occurred to most of them that this lets you trash Copper, even if they do appreciate the value of trashing Copper.

[Beyond Awesome]

A lot of beginners also look at Chapel and ask why did they print this card.

[Voltaire]

A lot of beginners also look at Chapel and ask why did they print this card.

Ah, I remember learning Dominion...when I saw Chapel, my first thought was "There's clearly something I don't understand about trashing."

[mnavratil]

I wish I could look at the ending deck composition of my first ever game of dominion. It was with intrigues and I think most of my decks was a terrible hodge-podge consisting of the majority of scouts and probably very little silver, no gold.

Fun times.

[mnavratil]

Also, new expansions are a great source of hilarious misconceptions about new cards. JoaT? That can't be good...

I eagerly await looking back at Dark Ages postings once we are all a little more experiences.

[Taco Lobster]

I wish I could look at the ending deck composition of my first ever game of dominion. It was with intrigues and I think most of my decks was a terrible hodge-podge consisting of the majority of scouts and probably very little silver, no gold.

Fun times.

You should pat yourself on the back for not going the village idiot route.  I remember my first deck fondly - it was cellers, villages and markets.  I could draw the whole deck and generate up to $7 on a regular basis!

[mnavratil]

I wish I could look at the ending deck composition of my first ever game of dominion. It was with intrigues and I think most of my decks was a terrible hodge-podge consisting of the majority of scouts and probably very little silver, no gold.

Fun times.

You should pat yourself on the back for not going the village idiot route.  I remember my first deck fondly - it was cellers, villages and markets.  I could draw the whole deck and generate up to $7 on a regular basis!

I think it's funny that the village-idiot mentality is what seems to hook so many people in the first place. Sure, you probably didn't win that game, but I bet it sure was fun to play!

[Voltaire]

I wish I could look at the ending deck composition of my first ever game of dominion. It was with intrigues and I think most of my decks was a terrible hodge-podge consisting of the majority of scouts and probably very little silver, no gold.

Fun times.

You should pat yourself on the back for not going the village idiot route.  I remember my first deck fondly - it was cellers, villages and markets.  I could draw the whole deck and generate up to $7 on a regular basis!

I think it's funny that the village-idiot mentality is what seems to hook so many people in the first place. Sure, you probably didn't win that game, but I bet it sure was fun to play!

You can draw your ENTIRE DECK!

I distinctly remember the game where my roommate played all nine of his villages (I think), drew his entire deck, went "With $7, I buy..." (long pause) "...another village," and the look on his face as he shuffled it into his deck. I could watch the realization spread across his face.

[clb]

I wish I could look at the ending deck composition of my first ever game of dominion. It was with intrigues and I think most of my decks was a terrible hodge-podge consisting of the majority of scouts and probably very little silver, no gold.

Fun times.

You clearly understood the power of Scout early on, and were even prescient enough to start practicing for Feodum decks - pretty impresive!

[zahlman]

My first game was playing zombinion, which is Base + Intrigue with a zombie theme.

All I remember is spamming Nobles and somehow beating three way more experienced players than myself.

I played Zombinion once and somehow totally failed to realize that the cards were all direct rips of actual Dominion cards, as opposed to fan expansion stuff.

[Cuzz]

I remember having played just a few games of Base+Intrigue. I really enjoyed the mechanics of the game, and though I had never seriously been into any other board games, I was hooked.

Then my friend, who had introduced me to Dominion, brought over the other expansions he had. I picked up the Seaside box and read the card descriptions. A particular card caught my eye. Certainly this must be a joke. A card this strong must dominate each kingdom in which it appears. Why print such an absurdly powerful gamebreaking card?

I knew then that we needed to set up a kingdom with this card and play it immediately. I would buy and buy this card and nothing else until it led me to inevitable victory. Fools who ignored it to pursue other strategies would come to regret their naïveté.  I refer of course not to lowly imposters like Wharf, Ambassador, Ghost Ship, Tactician or Sea Hag, but to the mighty Treasure Map.

[zahlman]

That's actually pretty understandable.

[gman314]

When I first played Seaside, I also thought of Treasure Map as totally awesome. However, I figured the strategy was to buy two, buy some trashers and/or drawers and then get the maps together and transition to big money. On that side, I wasn't too far off. However, I was off in my belief that it had to be a must-buy every game.

[GendoIkari]

When I first played Seaside, I also thought of Treasure Map as totally awesome. However, I figured the strategy was to buy two, buy some trashers and/or drawers and then get the maps together and transition to big money. On that side, I wasn't too far off. However, I was off in my belief that it had to be a must-buy every game.

For my first several Seaside games, both Treasure Map and Pirate ship were complete must-buys when they were available for everyone in our group.

[mnavratil]

Now I am just picturing somebody relatively new coming to this thread.
"What do you mean these cards aren't must-buy? So I should only buy pirate ship/Treasure Map like 90% of the time? I don't understand."

[Cuzz]

When I first played Seaside, I also thought of Treasure Map as totally awesome. However, I figured the strategy was to buy two, buy some trashers and/or drawers and then get the maps together and transition to big money.

I'm not sure why you would muck around with all that when you could just buy more Treasure Maps. You guys know they give you 4 golds on your deck right? Granted, you need two of them, but still. Each treasure map = 2 golds. They'd be balanced at $12.

[gman314]

Until I discovered dominionstrategy, I had no idea of the value of attacks. I figured they were good, but not that great. Totally did not get Sea Hag at all.

[zahlman]

However, I figured the strategy was to buy two, buy some trashers and/or drawers and then get the maps together and transition to big money. On that side, I wasn't too far off.

What else would you do, except maybe buy a third?

[gman314]

However, I figured the strategy was to buy two, buy some trashers and/or drawers and then get the maps together and transition to big money. On that side, I wasn't too far off.

What else would you do, except maybe buy a third?

Well, a couple of my friends loaded up on them and tried to get two match-ups in a game.

Speaking of cards I totally didn't get, I totally mis-read Tournament at first. I thought you could only get the +1 card, +$1 if you revealed a Province. I also thought that anyone who revealed a Province could get a prize. Not just on your turn.

[michaeljb]

I once beat a couple of my friends who were going Treasure Map, but only because I went for Mine     , which is clearly the only card able to get Gold fast enough to compete with Treasure Map.

[Tmwinand]

I used to buy estates when I was cursed, to balance out the points... 

[petrie911]

My biggest Seaside misconception was "Extra turn?  This must be the best card ever."

Yeah, for a card that gives you an extra turn, Outpost sure is awful.

[Eevee]

My biggest Seaside misconception was "Extra turn?  This must be the best card ever."

Yeah, for a card that gives you an extra turn, Outpost sure is awful.

I still think it's super counterintuitive.. For such an awful card, outpost looks weirdly good on paper.

[michaeljb]

For such an awful card, Outpost is amazingly good when it's any good.

[rinkworks]

My absolute favorite BGG thread was in the Variants forum at a time shortly following, I think, the release of Intrigue.  Someone proposed the following fan card:

I havn't come up with a viable name for this card, but my brother came up with the idea.
It basically works as a remodel, but with the new card having a value of THREE coins more than the original card. This would mean that you could easily turn cost five cards into provinces, which would give it alot of power. My initial thoughts would be that it would cost six coin. Any thoughts?

The idea came under instant criticism:

Misses the point of the $7 gap.
Cost 5 cards are very plentiful; this turns those (including duchies) into provinces.
Cost 3 cards become gold.
There's no reason not to take this card, and would turn every game that it is in into a race for it.

The thread devolved into a heated debate about the importance of the $7 gap -- all the rage, pre-Prosperity -- until someone chimed in with the lighthearted remark:

Maybe Super Remodel should cost 7.

And then someone else got back to the original topic of the proposed fan card, denouncing it with style:

I've got an idea! Lets take some other cards and add 1 to their effect too! Dibs on Super-Laboratory. We need a Super-Witch that lets me draw 3 cards after giving everyone else two Super-Curses! And of course, I will fuel it all with my Super-Nobles, which give me 3 actions or 4 cards, as well as being worth 3 victory points.

Then Prosperity comes out.

[zahlman]

It's too bad he didn't also forecast the, er, Supermarket.

[cooperaa]

It's too bad he didn't also forecast the, er, Supermarket.

When my wife and our friends play IRL, we call it the Supermarket.

Other silly names we call cards: Douche-hat (Duchy), La-BOR-atory, Shmitty, Ménage, No-blays (Nobles), Sabotoeur! (Andy from the Office episode), Stewart (Steward)... The list goes on.

[Young Nick]

@rinkworks: Link please!

[zahlman]

No-blays (Nobles)

I call them noobles.

[gman314]

My brothers and I use la-BOR-atory and No-blays as well as swiiiiiindler, Shanty Toon, Chancillior and others.

[() | (_) ^/]

I teach the game a lot.

A full 80% of the time, someone who is being taught will insist on calling it "Douche-y" instead of Duchy.

I don't know why it gets under my skin.  But it does.

... it does.

[Hockey Mask]

Li-Barry

[jonts26]

Straw-Brerry

[werothegreat]

I teach the game a lot.

A full 80% of the time, someone who is being taught will insist on calling it "Douche-y" instead of Duchy.

I don't know why it gets under my skin.  But it does.

... it does.

I always pronounce it Duke-y.  Because it's run by a Duke.  Duke -> Duchy.  Yes, that sounds like "dooky", but homonyms just can't be helped.

[() | (_) ^/]

.

[chesskidnate]

@rinkworks: Link please!

found it: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/485103/card-idea-super-remodel

[() | (_) ^/]

@rinkworks: Link please!

found it: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/485103/card-idea-super-remodel

Love this gem from rinkworks: "Oh forgive me this horrible abuse of this sacred public forum!"

The sarcasm, dripping so thickly and yet with a steady flow, was exceedingly sweet to imbibe.

[michaeljb]

Duchy = Ducky

[AJD]

The thread devolved into a heated debate about the importance of the $7 gap -- all the rage, pre-Prosperity -- until someone chimed in with the lighthearted remark:

Maybe Super Remodel should cost 7.

Someone else suggested, as a more interesting Remodel variant, having an action where you trash multiple cards and gain something costing the total costs of the trashed cards.

[gman314]

Yeah, that one's quite hilarious, even though they only suggested trashing two cards.

[Schlippy]

For about a month or so we thought hamlet can only give you the buy if you discarded a card for the action before, because the german iteration has more text on it and on first sight it looks like the "you may discard a card from your hand, if you do +1 Buy" is part of the 'if you do' clause from the discard for an action.
Then suddenly in a game I was like "wait a secooooond, the last part of the card actually isn't linked to the middle part at all".

For two or three games I thought Fairgrounds works like "make piles of 5 differently named cards, +2 Points for every pile of 5 differently named cards".


I don't know if you'd call the following things misconceptions, but I think they are:

Someone I play with still refuses to accept that it is often better to buy a duchy instead of the penultimate province, although I have explained it to him about 20 times, and I have won against him because I bought a duchy instead of the penultimate province at least 50 times.

Someone else can't resist playing card drawers when his deck is empty and when it puts 90% of his good cards into the discard and leaves him with a deck of junk. After that he often complains that there is no +Buy in the Kingdom and that he can only buy one province in his megadrawturn. :>

Both of them pretty much always open Potion in their starting turn when Golem is in the Kingdom, no matter how bad the Golem or the Potion actually is in that game.

[cooperaa]

My playgroup and I used to think Moneylender was terrible and we never purchased it.  Then one time I bought one for kicks and I played it, trashing a Copper, playing three Coppers, and purchasing a Gold... and that's when it clicked.  I just turned a Copper into a Gold (more or less)!  That was probably around the same time that we reduced our usage of Mine.

[eHalcyon]

I don't know if you'd call the following things misconceptions, but I think they are:

Someone I play with still refuses to accept that it is often better to buy a duchy instead of the penultimate province, although I have explained it to him about 20 times, and I have won against him because I bought a duchy instead of the penultimate province at least 50 times.

Someone else can't resist playing card drawers when his deck is empty and when it puts 90% of his good cards into the discard and leaves him with a deck of junk. After that he often complains that there is no +Buy in the Kingdom and that he can only buy one province in his megadrawturn. :>

Both of them pretty much always open Potion in their starting turn when Golem is in the Kingdom, no matter how bad the Golem or the Potion actually is in that game.

I have a friend who absolutely hates Masquerade.  FWIW, he understands that it is a powerful card and acknowledges that his hatred is irrational.

[Tdog]

@rinkworks: Link please!

found it: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/485103/card-idea-super-remodel

I like the person who said: "The point is that Donald designed the game in a way that it doesn't include $1 and $7 cards. In fact, he also uses $6 cards very sparingly (so far only 2 out of 78, with the first one - Adventurer - somewhat shoehorned in)."
Yup, whatever you say.

[^_^_^_^]

Someone say $1 card? Lol... hmm I wonder whether anyone has made a Guilds card :O

[Jedit]

My absolute favorite BGG thread was in the Variants forum at a time shortly following, I think, the release of Intrigue.  Someone proposed the following fan card:

I havn't come up with a viable name for this card, but my brother came up with the idea.
It basically works as a remodel, but with the new card having a value of THREE coins more than the original card. This would mean that you could easily turn cost five cards into provinces, which would give it alot of power. My initial thoughts would be that it would cost six coin. Any thoughts?

The idea came under instant criticism:

Misses the point of the $7 gap.
Cost 5 cards are very plentiful; this turns those (including duchies) into provinces.
Cost 3 cards become gold.
There's no reason not to take this card, and would turn every game that it is in into a race for it.

The thread devolved into a heated debate about the importance of the $7 gap -- all the rage, pre-Prosperity -- until someone chimed in with the lighthearted remark:

Maybe Super Remodel should cost 7.

That Vaccarino boy, what a joker.

[engineer]

My absolute favorite BGG thread was in the Variants forum at a time shortly following, I think, the release of Intrigue.  Someone proposed the following fan card:

I havn't come up with a viable name for this card, but my brother came up with the idea.
It basically works as a remodel, but with the new card having a value of THREE coins more than the original card. This would mean that you could easily turn cost five cards into provinces, which would give it alot of power. My initial thoughts would be that it would cost six coin. Any thoughts?

The idea came under instant criticism:

Misses the point of the $7 gap.
Cost 5 cards are very plentiful; this turns those (including duchies) into provinces.
Cost 3 cards become gold.
There's no reason not to take this card, and would turn every game that it is in into a race for it.

The thread devolved into a heated debate about the importance of the $7 gap -- all the rage, pre-Prosperity -- until someone chimed in with the lighthearted remark:

Maybe Super Remodel should cost 7.

And then someone else got back to the original topic of the proposed fan card, denouncing it with style:

I've got an idea! Lets take some other cards and add 1 to their effect too! Dibs on Super-Laboratory. We need a Super-Witch that lets me draw 3 cards after giving everyone else two Super-Curses! And of course, I will fuel it all with my Super-Nobles, which give me 3 actions or 4 cards, as well as being worth 3 victory points.

Then Prosperity comes out.

People think they know so much.  And they use their false knowledge as a cudgel to beat down any perceived heretics.  The internet forum is the sophist's wet dream.  "Hey, if enough people agree with you loudly enough, then you must be right!" 

I'm glad all the critics in the thread were laid low by prosperity.  It's happening again in DA, though I think everybody is less surprised this time around.

[rinkworks]

I'm glad all the critics in the thread were laid low by prosperity.  It's happening again in DA, though I think everybody is less surprised this time around.

I'm surprised by how many unconventional things DA does that we never really thought Dominion would do.  You're right -- it's more of a mild surprise than a shock.  But it's hilarious how many DA cards are only subtly different from bad fan cards.  Just goes to show how delicate a procedure balancing Dominion cards is.

[engineer]

I'm glad all the critics in the thread were laid low by prosperity.  It's happening again in DA, though I think everybody is less surprised this time around.

I'm surprised by how many unconventional things DA does that we never really thought Dominion would do.  You're right -- it's more of a mild surprise than a shock.  But it's hilarious how many DA cards are only subtly different from bad fan cards.  Just goes to show how delicate a procedure balancing Dominion cards is.

Yeah, and I think it also proves out Donald's stated concerns about additional expansions.  There are only so many things you can do within the confines of a single game. 

Since Dominion is pretty popular now, plenty of smart people have thought of ways to explore this gamespace with fan cards, and that means that there are fewer original ideas which fit within the game.  Unless Donald introduces a whole new mechanic, his cards will inevitably resemble some fan card ideas.

[cdnza]

what's the deal with how all of you monsters are pronouncing Duchy? how do you pronounce Duchess exactly? i never thought there was much room for mispronunciation with the card.

[Jive Junkie]

Flashing back to an earlier, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed me:

Vault - So this card lets you turn all of your awesome cards into copper? Uh, good luck with that. +2 cards whoop-dee-doo. Witch does that AND it curses your enemies!

(it took me an embarrassing amount of games before I figured out that Vault will always get you Gold, and that Vault + Gold will always get you Province)


Loan - Paying 3 for a copper?!?! Are you serious?!?!

(I've now logged games where one Loan has killed 5 copper all by itself... still a junky card most of the time, though, I think)


Mine - Wow this card is so awesome, I better use my extra Buy on Copper so it won't run out of targets!

(no comment)


Thief - OK, it's kinda mediocre on its own, but if I chain a bunch with Villages and Smithy...

(in my defense, I learned pretty quickly how horrible this idea was)


Nobles - OK, I'm no chump anymore, I know that Village + Smithy is kind of meaningless, but Nobles is a self-combo that gains you victory points!! Nobles all the way FTW!!

(learning moment: I ran out the 8 Nobles pile all by myself vs. an opponent who was already up to 6 Provinces & did the math - I'd need 2 Provinces and 3 Duchy to catch up, all on a single Buy per turn. I did not win that game)

[Tdog]

From an Amazon Cornucopia review:
On Remake: "Trash two cards and gain 2 cards costing exactly $1 more than each. Tried using it and it's rarely worthwhile. It'd be better if you could trash up to 2 cards I think. The conditions are too harsh and it costs 4."

On Jester: Another amazing card.

On Young Witch: Interesting mechanic but it has a weaker attack than a witch and you have to discard two cards after you gain +2 cards. (Editors note: Well, thats why it costs 4 not 5...)

[Jfrisch]

some of those threads feel interestingly prescient
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/369716/ill-gotten-gains
IGG which gains curses and gives you money...

[brokoli]

From BGG, again :

Dominion: Alchemy
Focus: Sucking. Okay, sorry, no, the focus is Potions, which is an additional treasure card you need to buy cards.
Small expansion.
Simply put, the cards in this set are overpowered (Golem and Possession are two particularly heinous offenders). Yes, they can be more difficult to purchase, but they do too much compared to all the other cards in the game. I would say most people will warn you not to buy this, and I'd be among them. (We only play with the 2 cards from this set that don't require a Potion to purchase.)
Grade: D

[Archetype]

Well, at least they got the grading right.

[jaybeez]

The first time I played Dominion, I thought the only thing you'd ever want to trash is a Curse.  Not an uncommon misconception, and I think this may be in part because most people, like me, start with just the Base set--in which the only Curser is Witch and the only "pure" (i.e. non-TfB) trasher is Chapel.  The use of the TfB cards in the Base set is obvious, even if their optimal use isn't.  But what's Chapel for? you wonder when you first read it.  And then you see Witch, and you realize that the way to combat the unholy (Witch/Curse) is with the holy (Chapel/trashing).  Aha!  That's why there's trashing, so you can get rid of Curses.  It seems so intuitive when you realize it, except it's wrong.  Well, okay not totally wrong, but it does obfuscate Chapel's true power.

I wonder, was that a deliberate design decision?

And am I always alliterative?

[aaron0013]

Yes. Chapel was originally designed to confuse newbies. It was something that Donald X thought was funny for the first few games of his newest opponent. Then he would bring it all on at once....Chapel can trash.........COPPER!!!