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[sparky5856]

To angrybirds, shraeye, other new folks - in MVI when I was brand new I found the constant references to old mafia games annoying and not helpful,  but you do actually learn a lot from them if you sit down and read through them. They are pretty hard to skim, though, and long.

Indeed they are. It took me a couple hours to read the first mafia game, and that wasn't a 4000 page behemoth.

shraeye, here's my reasoning. I initially found Volt's query unnecessarily complex. Once you suit claim, there's automatically a possibility you're Major Arcana, which means who-knows-what to all who aren't as such. I then reasoned, why not claim to just be Major Arcana (a bit of talking out loud), but then if you do you claim to be an unknown super-power role, which means people will be watching you much more closely. So, not smart. With Volt's method, if you claim, say, Pentacles, you have a 87.5% chance of actually being Pentacles, if you're telling the truth and there's two Major Arcanas. Arcani. Whatever the plural is.

Heh, not playing mafia in a couple of years is quite challenging, I will admit.

[Robz888]

I would suggest that anybody really serious about learning stuff should read either MII or MIV. Those were very, very good games where the wins were well-deserved. MV and MVI, on the other hand, resolved themselves based on almost entirely random night targeting.

[O]

Don't look at MV and MVI because I played poorly in both games.

FTFY

Well, mainly MVI, but still.

[Galzria]

So just over 1/4 of the deck consists of scum roles. With 16 players then, is 4 scum too much? Too little? I can't imagine 5 scum in 16 players, but if it's 4 and we know that there is an SK, then the odds of two scum factions (both WW and Mafia) should go down, correct? Or else 1 faction only has 1 member.

So how do you think the breakdown went?

2
1
SK
?

3
SK
?

Or do you see there being 5 scum, with teams being

2
2
SK
?

Thoughts?

[O]

So just over 1/4 of the deck consists of scum roles. With 16 players then, is 4 scum too much? Too little? I can't imagine 5 scum in 16 players, but if it's 4 and we know that there is an SK, then the odds of two scum factions (both WW and Mafia) should go down, correct? Or else 1 faction only has 1 member.

So how do you think the breakdown went?

2
1
SK
?

3
SK
?

Or do you see there being 5 scum, with teams being

2
2
SK
?

Thoughts?

Splitting scumteams makes more scum more balanced. MVI had 6/18 (not incl. survivor) scum and probably favors town even with noncrap scum play.

[ftl]

I recommend that people "serious" about learning stuff jump right in, play games, and don't worry about rereading old games unless that's your idea of fun. Seriously, it's not important enough to be worth reading the sort of volume of posts that go into these games. Also, feel free to be aggressive and accuse people and ruffle people's feathers, and shrug it off when people do the same to you.

I'm not sure that I even buy
 

I would suggest that anybody really serious about learning stuff should read either MII or MIV. Those were very, very good games where the wins were well-deserved. MV and MVI, on the other hand, resolved themselves based on almost entirely random night targeting.
 

 So far all f.ds games have been basically won or lost via night targeting and investigations. Not necessarily random, but still, it's all about the power roles. VTs play a supporting role.  In MII, the part where mafia hit a cop N1 was pretty critical, don't you think?

OK, back to gamechat about arcacna.

If 1/4 of the deck consists of scum roles, we're probably in pretty good shape. 2 WW, 2 Mafia... not so bad. It depends on the luck of the draw - if we get  a Mafia Godfather and a cop clears him early, we're sort of screwed, but you can't really plan for that and whatever. Also depends on whatever the heck the Major Arcana are. I look forward to one of them dying just so that we can know what sort of things they have!

We'll see after N1 what the breakdown is. I would expect 2-3 deaths N1, with the potential for more or less. 3 probably means we have SK or vig, 2 probably means no SK, 4 means SK AND Vig of some sort. 1 death probably means no sk, no vig, and a lucky doctor/roleblocker. I think the probabilities work out so at least 1 ww and at least 1 mafia are pretty likely?

[Galzria]

Mod confirmed SK.

[Galzria]

The wind suddenly picks up and rushes around your ears. You can distinctly make out the sound of ghostly voices. They say, "There is at least one serial killer in this game." Then they say, "BOO!"

[ftl]

oh right

[Voltgloss]

Volt, are you a Werewolf?

No.

Voltgloss, these are real questions for you.  What do you think would be gained by suitclaiming?  Why did you forget about the Major Arcana in your first query?

As someone else (Axxle?) suggested, the benefit I was mulling was forcing scum to drop some information now under circumstances where lying (1) has no immediate discernible benefit and (2) may complicate things for them later - i.e., catch them IN a lie - if they try to fakeclaim a role outside their suit bounds.  I was specifically comparing this to Mystery Mafia in my head.  But it wasn't at all clear to me though whether, in THIS setup (as opposed to Mystery Mafia), such benefit outweighed the potential detriment(s).   

That I was thinking about this vis-a-vis Mystery Mafia is why I didn't think about the Major Arcana when first raising the question.  My initial thought process was simply:  "we have suits -> different types of roles are restricted to certain suits -> like Mystery Mafia where different cardnames are linked to different sets -> do we want to claim suits like we claimed sets?"  No analog to Major Arcana in Mystery Mafia, so they didn't enter my head until ftl specifically mentioned them in responding to me (and reposted the full setup list plus Major Arcana).  [I've been thinking about Mystery Mafia rather a lot more than this game, so far]

The intent of the question was not to suggest we should try to trap/reveal Major Arcana early.

[Axxle]

... we should try to trap/reveal Major Arcana early.

Gasp!

[ftl]

asp!

Vote: Axxle because he's a snake.

[Voltgloss]

e's a snake.

'E is?  Get 'im!

Vote: eHunt

[Captain_Frisk]

Well, 16 players in a non-BM game! Not bad... Hope you're up for the work Cayvie. You've got a 4000 post behemoth coming your way!

Frisk, I need to know up front, are you scum?

Sorry galz, I am not scum.

[Eevee]

I am quite town too. Galzria looks towny to me, so does Volt. Apparently the active always do though.

[ehunt]

I'm going to confuse sparky and shraeye for the foreseeable future. How can I differentiate them? What's your playstyle? Angrybirds I can remember because he's twinclaimed by yuma.

[ehunt]

As far as I'm concerned, the value of the old mafia games is less "seeing good mafia games" and more "learning people's behavior patterns." The primary example so far is Morgrim, whose play is very eccentric. It's easy to mistake the eccentricity for scumminess. Galzria tends to be verbose.

It's sort of boring to dig in, though.

[angrybirds]

 i am going to vote:Galzeria because he is playing just like a person who wants us to think he is town

[shark_bait]

I would like to say that I plan on doing upping my game.  After poor showings in BMMMMM1 and RMM1 and my recent death in BMIV, I'm done with that style of mafia.  The new and improved shark_bait is here.  And yes ehunt, I am already starting to get quite aware of some players' idiosyncrasies.  Hopefully that will help me in this game.

[Insomniac]

Hey shark you changing your play style to cover for the fax your scum this game?

[yuma]

Hey shark you changing your play style to cover for the fax your scum this game?

vote sharky

[Robz888]

I would like to say that I plan on doing upping my game.  After poor showings in BMMMMM1 and RMM1 and my recent death in BMIV, I'm done with that style of mafia.  The new and improved shark_bait is here.  And yes ehunt, I am already starting to get quite aware of some players' idiosyncrasies.  Hopefully that will help me in this game.

Sharky, what do you perceive to be the defects in your previous strategy? What do you plan to change?

[ehunt]

(careful not to talk about ongoing games)

[Robz888]

(careful not to talk about ongoing games)

Oh, yeah. Don't mention MVII.

[Voltgloss]

(careful not to talk about ongoing games)

Oh, yeah. Don't mention MVII.

I think all of the games sharky has played in are still ongoing, yes?