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Author Topic: Clasic_Cards #4 - Zombie  (Read 3535 times)

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Rush_Clasic

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Clasic_Cards #4 - Zombie
« on: July 19, 2012, 05:37:14 pm »
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Initial design:

Zombie (3)
Action - Attack
+$2
Each other player reveals an Action card from his or her hand or reveals a hand with no Action cards. Choose a card revealed this way. Move a Zombie card from any supply pile onto the supply pile of that card.
---------
If Zombie is on a Supply pile, cards beneath it can't leave that pile.


Zombie (3)
Action
+$2
Move a Zombie card from the top of any Kingdom pile onto the top of another Kingdom pile of your choice.
---------------
If Zombie is on top of a Kingdom pile, it must be gained before other cards in that pile. The same is true for buying, trashing, and moving.



  • Zombies created more zombies! This might be thematically awkward with inanimate Action cards like Moat, but I still enjoy the overall idea.
  • When a Zombie is on a pile, it has to leave that pile before cards beneath it can. It can still be bought, gained, trashed, or otherwise moved as though it were on its original pile. Is that clear with my wording? Do you think I'd have to explain it more explicitly?
  • I likely missed problems with this card. Please, feel free to point them out.
EDIT: Changed it to +$2 because +2 Cards don't interact all that well with the other mechanics.
EDIT2: I've changed the wording on the second clause 10 times already. I like the current because it seems the most direct.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 09:31:14 pm by Rush_Clasic »
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popsofctown

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Re: Clasic_Cards #4 - Zombie
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2012, 05:53:18 pm »
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You need to change the wording.  How about "If any player would gain a card from that supply pile, he gains the Zombie on top of it instead".

So you Ironworks a covered Great Hall and get nothing.  Except for BRAAAAAINNSS
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Schneau

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Re: Clasic_Cards #4 - Zombie
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2012, 06:26:32 pm »
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I feel like I long ago saw a very similar card in these forums. I don't have time to search for it right now, but maybe someone else knows of it?
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Clasic_Cards #4 - Zombie
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2012, 06:51:23 pm »
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You need to change the wording.  How about "If any player would gain a card from that supply pile, he gains the Zombie on top of it instead".

So you Ironworks a covered Great Hall and get nothing.  Except for BRAAAAAINNSS

That wording could work. I'd probably make it "If a card would be gained or trashed from that Supply pile, the Zombie on top is gained or trashed instead." But I'm not convinced that the wording I've chosen isn't intuitive. Not yet, at least.

EDIT: Changed it anyway. Even if it takes a few more words, I want the intention to be clear.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 09:31:47 pm by Rush_Clasic »
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iangoth

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Re: Clasic_Cards #4 - Zombie
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2012, 07:36:34 pm »
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Interesting idea. The similarities to embargo are obvious, but I think it's sufficiently distinct. Some thoughts:

I feel like the reveal/choose mechanic needs to go. Not because it's too political or anything, but because it weakens the card too much. If you can only block action cards your opponent already has, there's a good chance he wasn't planning to buy more, anyway. You should just be able to pick a pile to block. It's probably wise to restrict it to action (or maybe kingdom) cards, though, because a) putting one of these on the provinces would be really obnoxious, let alone two or three, and b) it helps keep the feel distinct from embargo. I'll assume you can move a zombie to any action card supply pile for the rest of my comments.

With the +$2, I'm a little worried that this card is too close to a strictly-better duchess. The fact that you can gain duchesses for free is probably enough to compensate, though.

The blocking effect could be much stronger in multiplayer, because often nobody would want unblock a pile for fear of giving their opponents an advantage.

This card should swing the balance toward big money, since the money player will probably have the actions he needs before you can block them.

This card counters itself pretty strongly, because you aren't impeded by the zombies on the turn you play it. The only alternative counter is to buy the zombie on top of the pile you want to get at, so either way, you end up with a zombie in your deck. Generally, I don't like that sort of thing. I'd like there to be an alternate way to get rid of the zombie. Paying extra $ to get the card might work, but isn't very thematic. Maybe discard an action card to lure away the zombie?
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Clasic_Cards #4 - Zombie
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2012, 08:50:28 pm »
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I feel like the reveal/choose mechanic needs to go. Not because it's too political or anything, but because it weakens the card too much. If you can only block action cards your opponent already has, there's a good chance he wasn't planning to buy more, anyway. You should just be able to pick a pile to block. It's probably wise to restrict it to action (or maybe kingdom) cards, though, because a) putting one of these on the provinces would be really obnoxious, let alone two or three, and b) it helps keep the feel distinct from embargo.

I wasn't sure how annoying that would be. Say two players buy Zombies. It's conceivable that after turn 6, there's only 5 non-Zombie Kingdom piles left. The more players you add, the worse the potential. I suppose it only gets really annoying if everyone is buying them and using them specifically to blank the piles, but it's an easy fix just buying or moving them off the zombified piles, and they run out quick enough on their own (also, you can just move them around with your own zombies rather than buy them up). I think it might be fine your way; the greatest appeal is how much more elegant it makes the card:

Zombie (3)
Action - Attack
+$2
Move a Zombie card from any Kingdom pile onto a Kingdom pile of your choice.
---------------
If Zombie is on a Kingdom pile, cards beneath it can't leave that pile.

Waaaaaaaaaaaay cleaner. Hopefully not incredibly annoying.

With the +$2, I'm a little worried that this card is too close to a strictly-better duchess. The fact that you can gain duchesses for free is probably enough to compensate, though.

I'm not sure why you're comparing this specifically with Duchess. Their effects aren't that similar, Duchess costs $1 less, and plenty of actions cards costing $3 provide $2 + an effect.

The blocking effect could be much stronger in multiplayer, because often nobody would want unblock a pile for fear of giving their opponents an advantage.

At the same time, if you play a Zombie and move a card off a pile, you're the first person with the opportunity to purchase from that pile. The interplay might work there.

This card should swing the balance toward big money, since the money player will probably have the actions he needs before you can block them.

This also has a funky way of both emptying the Zombie pile and preventing other piles from going empty. I'm not sure who that favors, play-style-wise.

This card counters itself pretty strongly, because you aren't impeded by the zombies on the turn you play it. The only alternative counter is to buy the zombie on top of the pile you want to get at, so either way, you end up with a zombie in your deck. Generally, I don't like that sort of thing. I'd like there to be an alternate way to get rid of the zombie. Paying extra $ to get the card might work, but isn't very thematic. Maybe discard an action card to lure away the zombie?

I wouldn't like that style of play if it was over-used, but an occasional card seems fine. It can be easy enough to just avoid Zombies sometimes, going Big Money or some other insular strategy.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 09:17:41 pm by Rush_Clasic »
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AJD

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Re: Clasic_Cards #4 - Zombie
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2012, 10:40:18 pm »
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Can a Zombie be moved into an empty pile?

Presumably it can be moved into pile that already has Zombie on top. (Stack four or five Zombies on top of Possession....)
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ftl

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Re: Clasic_Cards #4 - Zombie
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2012, 02:31:36 am »
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Can you move a zombie onto the Zombie pile? :)
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iangoth

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Re: Clasic_Cards #4 - Zombie
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2012, 07:52:38 am »
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With the +$2, I'm a little worried that this card is too close to a strictly-better duchess. The fact that you can gain duchesses for free is probably enough to compensate, though.

I'm not sure why you're comparing this specifically with Duchess. Their effects aren't that similar, Duchess costs $1 less, and plenty of actions cards costing $3 provide $2 + an effect.

Sorry, misread your card. I somehow thought it cost $2, like duchess.
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Schneau

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Re: Clasic_Cards #4 - Zombie
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2012, 07:52:57 am »
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Can a Zombie be moved into an empty pile?

Presumably it can be moved into pile that already has Zombie on top. (Stack four or five Zombies on top of Possession....)

I assume the answer to both of these is yes. Which means (importantly) that Zombie could be used to undo empty piles and slow down a 3 pile ending. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but adds to the strategy of the card.
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Rush_Clasic

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Re: Clasic_Cards #4 - Zombie
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2012, 06:56:29 pm »
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Can a Zombie be moved into an empty pile?

Presumably it can be moved into pile that already has Zombie on top. (Stack four or five Zombies on top of Possession....)

I assume the answer to both of these is yes. Which means (importantly) that Zombie could be used to undo empty piles and slow down a 3 pile ending. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but adds to the strategy of the card.

^^^ That. We played it last night and I buried the Harem cards 3 deep in Zombies. It's powerful being able to shut off certain strategies, even if for just a short while. The empty pile thing never came up for us, but that's an intended interaction.
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