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[manda2014]

I also didn't hammer galz (or even vote for him).... no one but you can make a claim about the certainty of my vote on you and even then, we can't believe you with %100 certainty.  So I don't see how your claim about my vote on you has any validity to it to anyone but yourself.

hence why it's one of my reasons for thinking you are scum here. and uh, well, my opinions are going to matter for people who trust me to be town too. and if i die at night, i've putten it out there for the rest of the town to remember.

If we don't lynch scum, it doesn't matter who dies at night. We lose...

what if we lynch you and sharkie kills me at night? its important to give pps and nick the information.

Lynch me and the game's over. Everything becomes irrelevant

[Young Nick]

I also didn't hammer galz (or even vote for him).... no one but you can make a claim about the certainty of my vote on you and even then, we can't believe you with %100 certainty.  So I don't see how your claim about my vote on you has any validity to it to anyone but yourself.

hence why it's one of my reasons for thinking you are scum here. and uh, well, my opinions are going to matter for people who trust me to be town too. and if i die at night, i've putten it out there for the rest of the town to remember.

If we don't lynch scum, it doesn't matter who dies at night. We lose...

what if we lynch you and sharkie kills me at night? its important to give pps and nick the information.

Lynch me and the game's over. Everything becomes irrelevant

...says every single person still alive in this game of Mafia.

[pingpongsam]

Wow, I'm not used to getting up in the morning and actually getting to read posts from SB and manda.

I'm still convinced manda is scum. Her posts are just as easily Mafia responses as they are Town responses. At no point has manda made any real effort to put down any analysis. Her votes have been non-committal and her absences have seemed eerily timed for convenience to scum. Her only look at D2 was that Galzria/timchen battle was a ball of confusion. It was confusing mostly because they were left to sort things out for themselves, there was no other focus, really. This was due largely to the fact that several of the game's players were absent and when they did appear they just claimed that there was too much reading to do and in manda's case once the reading was done yet another non-committal position was taken.

Well, it's D3 and now the opportunities to lurk in the shadows and let Town tear themselves to pieces are thin. Instead of picking up the pace and stepping up to the plate to put some analysis on the table she seems content to keep pushing the "I'm Town leave me alone" and "You guys figure it out for yourself" wagon. Thank you for the Captain Obvious statement that if we hit the wrong person it's curtains for Town. Tell me why you're not the right lynch with more than that silly fear stick. Tell me who you think is the best scum target with some logic.

I started warming up to the idea that scum was not on the Frisk wagon somewhere mid-D2. I don't have the warm fuzzies about SB but I could see YN as the devious scum partner to manda better than SB. SB is arguably an easier D3 lynch than timchen which explains why he was left alive last night. YN has kept him on the table since D1 which doesn't necessarily indicate scum but does support a YN/manda pair for all 3 days. That's the thing, I've got my uncertainties a plenty on YN, Eevee and SB. Of those 3 Eevee feels the most like Town. It's a crap shoot on YN/SB but I maintain that that manda has consistently played a scum hand, a quiet reserved scum hand that has become more and more obvious as the shadows of former Townies have dropped away.

[Eevee]

Anyone opposed to just taking our chances and lynching manda?

[pingpongsam]

Anyone opposed to just taking our chances and lynching manda?

I've been thinking about how it works if a vote goes up on scum. On town it is obvious that Mafia will double-hammer game over. On scum it requires all 3 town to make the lynch or scum can drop the hammer and make some real distance for D4. So, who is on the wagon is not nearly as useful of information as is who dies tonight.

All that said, I'm uncomfortably hesitant but not at all opposed. I certainly want to hear a weigh in on the wagon from each remaining player before any votes go up.

[Eevee]

They don't have daytalk here though, which makes orchestrating a quickhammer harder. I wonder.. I'm on so much, maybe I could vote for manda and then snap unvote when someone else votes.. Just the threat of that happening.. hmm, need to think about it. I wish I was cop-confirmed town or something, so I could have just done that to trap scum without warning them first.

I take it PPS is ready to vote for manda. shark_bait and Young Nick, would you be?

[Young Nick]

They don't have daytalk here though, which makes orchestrating a quickhammer harder. I wonder.. I'm on so much, maybe I could vote for manda and then snap unvote when someone else votes.. Just the threat of that happening.. hmm, need to think about it. I wish I was cop-confirmed town or something, so I could have just done that to trap scum without warning them first.

I take it PPS is ready to vote for manda. shark_bait and Young Nick, would you be?

Well, let me say that I am not opposed, but that I would want to read all of her d2 posts beforehand. So don't expect a vote from me tonight.

What do you mean with your last sentence of your first paragraph? How does this trap scum? You mean if they both vote but you unvote first so they are both caught on the wagon?

Anyone opposed to just taking our chances and lynching manda?

I've been thinking about how it works if a vote goes up on scum. On town it is obvious that Mafia will double-hammer game over. On scum it requires all 3 town to make the lynch or scum can drop the hammer and make some real distance for D4. So, who is on the wagon is not nearly as useful of information as is who dies tonight.

All that said, I'm uncomfortably hesitant but not at all opposed. I certainly want to hear a weigh in on the wagon from each remaining player before any votes go up.

Don't forget that a vote on town does not mean that Mafia will quick-hammer. It is very possible that a member of the Mafia takes the chance and puts in that first vote on town. The lack of a quick-hammer with have the other two town thinking that the first vote has hit Mafia and one of them will make the mistake of voting, as well. Then, the other member of Mafia hammers and it's game over.

A lack of quick-hammer action does not imply that the vote is on Mafia.

[Young Nick]

Anyone opposed to just taking our chances and lynching manda?

You sound so lax about it. Like it's no big deal if manda is town and we lose. Please, be cautious.

[Eevee]

Well, if someone made the mistake of voting for someone they had never voiced any suspicion before, we could catch scum that way. But nah, it doesn't really work.

And Nick, got any better candidates? I know I dont.

[Young Nick]

Well, if someone made the mistake of voting for someone they had never voiced any suspicion before, we could catch scum that way. But nah, it doesn't really work.

And Nick, got any better candidates? I know I dont.

Again, based on d2 feels (aka currently unsupported), I'd prefer s_b. Make a case, a real one, against manda and then we can talk.

[Eevee]

Well, if someone made the mistake of voting for someone they had never voiced any suspicion before, we could catch scum that way. But nah, it doesn't really work.

And Nick, got any better candidates? I know I dont.

Again, based on d2 feels (aka currently unsupported), I'd prefer s_b. Make a case, a real one, against manda and then we can talk.

Why would you prefer shark_bait? Don't get me wrong, I think he is a good candidate too (as I said, my clear 2nd), but I've laid out my case on manda, why do you think shark_bait is better? Short repeat: no real pro-town contributions (I thiink shark_bait has some), and the "I'm town I don't need to defend myself" - defense which reads "I don't know what I should do, I can't really explain my actions so I choose this" to me. I think one of my strengths in mafia is figuring out if someone's defense/behavior is genuine when facing a threat of getting lynched. The emotions I think townies usually show, are not there in manda's posts.

[manda2014]

Well, if someone made the mistake of voting for someone they had never voiced any suspicion before, we could catch scum that way. But nah, it doesn't really work.

And Nick, got any better candidates? I know I dont.

Again, based on d2 feels (aka currently unsupported), I'd prefer s_b. Make a case, a real one, against manda and then we can talk.

Why would you prefer shark_bait? Don't get me wrong, I think he is a good candidate too (as I said, my clear 2nd), but I've laid out my case on manda, why do you think shark_bait is better? Short repeat: no real pro-town contributions (I thiink shark_bait has some), and the "I'm town I don't need to defend myself" - defense which reads "I don't know what I should do, I can't really explain my actions so I choose this" to me. I think one of my strengths in mafia is figuring out if someone's defense/behavior is genuine when facing a threat of getting lynched. The emotions I think townies usually show, are not there in manda's posts.

...What emotions are those? The way I see it, emotion is probably not a good response to anything in a mafia game.

[pingpongsam]

In my experience and my observation a townie faced with lynch generally expresses some degree of anger or outrage. Mafia typically expresses resignation. This becomes more and more true the as as end-game condition approaches.

[Eevee]

yeah, townies either apologize if they feel they've played bad and "deserve it", or they get upset and fight if they feel the suspicion is not justified. Manda's reaction reads "I knew this was coming but I hope it goes away if I just avoid the issue."

[shark_bait]

@Eevee, manda would be on my list of people I could lynch (but in all honesty, I could be convinced to lynch anyone but myself today). 

However, I'd rather not rush today lynch decision.  Since this is lylo, we want to make a good decision and not do anything rash.  Obviously, anyone can respond to lynching with the "If you lynch me we lose" talk today due to lylo.  I think it is therefore imperative that those responses don't hold any merit with us when deciding a lynch.  The decision to lynch or not lynch should be based on other arguments that have relevance to other days/interactions.

I'm also rather unsure of PPS and YN, which is part of the reason I don't want to be rash with manda.  Those 2 have kinda flown under my radar and I would really like to look back through their posts in the next day or two. 

Also, I'm now posting from my new computer 

[Eevee]

Also, I'm now posting from my new computer 

Nice! Was it bought with bloody crime syndicate money?
Thing is, no one is posting. I don't want to rush, but if we only wait for someone to get bored and vote for someone else than manda, I do not like it.

[pingpongsam]

Still waiting for Sharky's weigh in. I'm don't imagine having much else to say until then. Glad to see we don't have to wait too long.

[Young Nick]

Still waiting for Sharky's weigh in. I'm don't imagine having much else to say until then. Glad to see we don't have to wait too long.

Agreed. However, I still advise that all of us reread a good chunk of d2 before jumping the gun. And that means not just waiting for s_b.

[Eevee]

Still waiting for Sharky's weigh in. I'm don't imagine having much else to say until then. Glad to see we don't have to wait too long.

Agreed. However, I still advise that all of us reread a good chunk of d2 before jumping the gun. And that means not just waiting for s_b.

Could Nick be repeatedky saying this because he desperately wants us to find any other target than his scumbuddy manda? Just a though, up until this point I've gotten a town vibe from Nick.

[Young Nick]

Still waiting for Sharky's weigh in. I'm don't imagine having much else to say until then. Glad to see we don't have to wait too long.

Agreed. However, I still advise that all of us reread a good chunk of d2 before jumping the gun. And that means not just waiting for s_b.

Could Nick be repeatedky saying this because he desperately wants us to find any other target than his scumbuddy manda? Just a though, up until this point I've gotten a town vibe from Nick.

I actually noticed that I was giving off this vibe during my most recent post. I don't think that my d3 posting is a good indicator of this as much as my d2 (and maybe even d1) defenses of manda are. During that time, I initially viewed her as someone who thought like me. There was at least one or two occasions that I read a post and was about to comment on it, but manda had beat me to it. We both stated that we were cautious players who only voted with relative confidence.

For that reason, I had a good town vibe from her. However, as the game progressed, I felt like her contributions became shallower and shallower. I was shocked when, at some point in d2, if I remember correctly, Galzria said something along the lines of "I see what manda sees" because some of her commentary had seemed so surface-level.

I empathized with her when she took flak for "lurking" because I was going through the same thing.

Now, I feel that her play has been unhelpful town play, and I have re-iterated this before. I guess my point is, is that I have backed her for a while.

You can read this in two ways:
A) She's my scum-buddy.
B) I, like her, am a cautious player and am very aware of the fact that we are at lylo.

There's no point to all of this, but it's a brief history of my reads on manda throughout the game.

[Young Nick]

Why is all of that relevant you ask? Well, because I'm not convinced that there is scum voting for S_B right now. There have been a few reasoned arguments, including my own why he should live to see the night at the least. It would look rather scummy to ignore those, and continue to think S_B is scum. But I'm here to find and lynch Mafia, not scum.

So, I'm looking at Eevee, Robz, Captain_Frisk, and timchen.

Just found this gem from galz way back on page 10.  I find it interesting that 2 of those members are dead already.

This is too funny. I know it is easy to have bad reads, especially early on in the game, but still...

[Young Nick]

I actually noticed that I was giving off this vibe during my most recent post. I don't think that my d3 posting is a good indicator of this as much as my d2 (and maybe even d1) defenses of manda are. During that time, I initially viewed her as someone who thought like me. There was at least one or two occasions that I read a post and was about to comment on it, but manda had beat me to it. We both stated that we were cautious players who only would vote after giving careful consideration to the person accused.

The bolded section is how my first post should have read.

[shark_bait]

Just looking back at earlier stuff.

Those on the CF lynch wagon - tc, galz, Rob, PPS, sharky

Those on the Galz lynch wagon - tc, galz, Eevee, PPS

No analysis yet, but I figured I would just put this info out there seeing as it is kinda buried at the moment.

[Young Nick]

Bump! No one can weigh in on my thoughts about manda or s_b's wagon reminder?

I see pps was the only one alive who was on both. Neither manda nor myself were on either.

pps acknowledged that he was still hesitant about hammering Galzria.

[Young Nick]

Voltgloss, it has been over 48 hours since manda has posted. She did warn about being LA this weekend, if I remember correctly. pps and Eevee are getting close to 48 hours, as well.