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[timchen]

@YN: I have two posts which I think summarize my argument against Galzria pretty well. Not sure whether you are through them or not, but if not you might want to start from there (and ignore the preceding posts for now). Then the later arguments might be of interest too (in which I was confused again.)

#1077 and #1079

[Young Nick]

@YN: I have two posts which I think summarize my argument against Galzria pretty well. Not sure whether you are through them or not, but if not you might want to start from there (and ignore the preceding posts for now). Then the later arguments might be of interest too (in which I was confused again.)

#1077 and #1079

Well, I appreciate this, but for objectivity's sake, I intend on reading each post by itself and not skipping to the timchen summaries. Intentional or not, they are probably slightly biased in your favor.

[Eevee]

Just a heads up, I am going switch my vote back to Galzria if any of you guys not voting for him realize he is the man to lynch today.

[manda2014]

If it comes down to it and we need to lynch, I could be convinced to vote Galz. I still think he's town, but I don't know that we're going to get anywhere if we don't lynch eiiiither him or timchen and Galz seems more likely.

[Young Nick]

I am not up to date, but are there not currently zero effective votes on Galzria? He has two - his own and timchen's. He controls both of these votes, so... as soon as he feels threatened by a lynch, he removes both. That means four of six would have to be convinced to lynch him, compared to two of six for anyone else.

What a headache.

And I actually think I may be able to catch up to most of it today! Some leisure time at the beach with an iPad full of the first 40-odd pages of talk. Maybe I can begin to contribute something of substance to the game!

[pingpongsam]

as soon as he feels threatened by a lynch, he removes both

The only reason he wasn't lynched is because I wouldn't hammer him and you, SB and manda weren't around to decide.

Eevee got bored and moved over to the manda wagon.

Galzria has specified that his lynch is informative and removes the timchen deadlock situation. While I agree with the premise I'm not real inclined to lynch someone I'm almost certain is town. His play isn't scum play.

All that is to say, he's not pulling the vote because of feeling threatened. He might pull the vote if one of you lurkers ever posted enough to show the rest of the guys how scummy you actually are.

All that said, Eevee and I both have stated that we'd lynch Galzria just to progress the game only Town seems to be playing around here. Manda concurred, so I'd say the threat to Galzria is real as hell.

[Eevee]

Uh I forgot timchen asked me why I changed my mind about manda.

First of all, the town read I previously had on her was that she started day 2 with accusing me of being mafia. I just thought that would be a weird weird thing to do for mafia because I assumed I looked very towny to everyone (and usually mafia wants to buddy up the guys everyone thinks are town, not accuse them). Well, it seems that was a wrong assumption (and other people actually found me scummy too), which in turn nullifies the town tell accusing me (imo) was. So, the initial reason I had for thinking manda is likely town is for the most part gone.

On top of that, she has played insanely scummy today. When timchen and Galzria had their spat, I took a clear side. PPS commented on it some. She didnt say anything. When I called her out on it, saying "you know not helping town is pretty scummy, care to weigh in?", her answer was "I'm town, I dont need to defend myself".

If it comes down to it and we need to lynch, I could be convinced to vote Galz. I still think he's town, but I don't know that we're going to get anywhere if we don't lynch eiiiither him or timchen and Galz seems more likely.

This makes me think she likely isnt a scum pair with Galz though, so I now need to decide which of the two I find scummier. And in all honesty, mandas play today is making me lean towards her after all. Galzria has looked townier recently, manda has not done a single pro-town thing today.

[timchen]

On top of that, she has played insanely scummy today. When timchen and Galzria had their spat, I took a clear side. PPS commented on it some. She didnt say anything. When I called her out on it, saying "you know not helping town is pretty scummy, care to weigh in?", her answer was "I'm town, I dont need to defend myself".

This is not what I perceived. I think whenever she weighed in between me and Galzria, however short her response was, she was on Galzria's side. I think you can verify this going back to see her posts. There are not that many anyway.

And therefore, what you quoted there reads like a (slightly) bus for me.

[Eevee]

manda, you think timchen and galzria are both "almost definitely" town? because I know I'm town, so if you are town and correct about those two, that only leaves shark_bait, PPS and Young Nick, two of them three have to be mafia then?

This will only be useful if you die and flip town (and only to me and those who believe I'm town obviously).

That was about the most useful thing I got from rereading manda. I still think she is scummy. Most of the mafia pairs I can think of have one thing in common. Manda.

[pingpongsam]

Most of the mafia pairs I can think of have one thing in common. Manda.

This is where I've been coming from for a while.

[Eevee]

Most of the mafia pairs I can think of have one thing in common. Manda.

This is where I've been coming from for a while.

Ah, agreement!

Others, some comments?

[timchen]

I do agree with that to some extent.

[shark_bait]

So do we vote manda over Galz then?  I know that you, tc, want Galz gone and feel that a mislynch on anyone other than him is game.  So do we take the risk on manda? 

[manda2014]

manda, you think timchen and galzria are both "almost definitely" town? because I know I'm town, so if you are town and correct about those two, that only leaves shark_bait, PPS and Young Nick, two of them three have to be mafia then?

I'm pretty sure timchen and galz are both town. I'll be surprised if one of them flips scum. You "know" you're town but I can't be certain. By your reasoning, yes, two out of those three have to be mafia. From where I stand, 2 out of sharky, pps, young nick, and you have to be scum. It's a bit better odds.

[manda2014]

The whole tim/galz conflict thing was craaaazy, but since it's essentially all that has happened d2, I don't think we'll learn much of anything from wagons, last words of the dead, etc., unless we lynch one of them. If you feel like you need to lynch me afterwards you can, obviously, but that will be the end of the game. I'm definitely, DEFINITELY town.

[timchen]

I will stick my vote on Galzria (unless he instructs me otherwise.) But I am ok (not that I can do anything about it either) if you guys want to lynch manda instead.

[Young Nick]

Man, this is some dense stuff. Reading on an iPad is difficult for me, especially without wifi and post numbers (I had to read the print version). I am up to timchen's first series of red alerts, in which he summarizes Galzria's arguments against him. I have some thoughts about a lot of people until then. But they are not updated.  I am a slow reader and this is dense, exhaustive reading. I read for close to two hours and barely felt like I made a dent in the material.

[Young Nick]

So I still have ~6 pages to read. Hooray!

[Eevee]

Man, this is some dense stuff. Reading on an iPad is difficult for me, especially without wifi and post numbers (I had to read the print version). I am up to timchen's first series of red alerts, in which he summarizes Galzria's arguments against him. I have some thoughts about a lot of people until then. But they are not updated.  I am a slow reader and this is dense, exhaustive reading. I read for close to two hours and barely felt like I made a dent in the material.

Outdated reads can be useful too. Its not like peoples aligments have changed in the last 6 pages.

[pingpongsam]

I'm just grateful someone is being arsed to actually read/play the game.

[Young Nick]

Well, I will post them when I am caught up. And I will note which were reads in the past and which still stand. Luckily I took notes so my previous thoughts will not be forgotten. I'll start with one thing: reading timchen v. Galzria is quite a hassle. There is a lot to read, and you can't read it just once. But I have a hard time thinking that timchen's alleged fake-claim was that. I am more of the belief that it was just piss-poor town play. Not cop-town play, but VT-town play. Honestly, if he claimed d3 to be cop, I wouldn't believe him and I trust no one else would either. The alleged bread-crumb was too obvious. He was trying to say he had a secret reason. He later explained said reason. He was not claiming, not legit-claiming, not fake-claiming. He was doing exactly as he said he was.

This is not to say I find him town, and I will get to those reasons for thinking otherwise later. It is just my thoughts on that specific topic.

PS: I am not withholding secret reasons that I find timchen to be scummy. That would be too ironic. It is just that I actually need to read everything before posting too much.

[Eevee]

We need to find a consensus between manda and Galzria today! Nolynch is not an acceptable outcone here.

Personally, I dont even care. I'm fine with either of them, they seem equal in information value and scumminess to me. Might even be a scum pair, which would explain why it's so hard to get either lynched.

[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 2-13

Galzria (2): Galzria, timchen
manda2014 (2): pingpongsam, Eevee
Eevee (1): shark_bait

Not Voting {2}: manda2014, Young Nick

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch

Lynch deadline: Monday, August 13, at 8:00 p.m. forum time (EDT)

[Eevee]

I see two paths.

Galzchen, would you be fine with a manda lynch? If your dual vote moves there, it's done.
PPS, if you move your vote to Galria, I can hammer him.

wouldnt mind manda, nick or sharky jumping to rescue either.

[manda2014]

Even though I think a Galz lynch is probably the only way out of today, I really hate the idea of lynching someone I think is town. I'm tempted to say we should wait until a little bit closer to the deadline, but I'm not sure if much else can happen between now and then other then rehashing of the same discussion. If nothing else gets accomplished between now and then, I'll vote Galz tomorrow night.