Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[timchen]

Galz, I don't understand what you are talking about in your second part.

@manda: To clarify, I was not soft-claiming there. I have (logical, not definite) reasons to believe that eevee is not scum currently but I think it is better not to reveal it yet.

This is how I explicitly denied at #827. This is a post I have quoted in my summary. I dunno what you expect me to say otherwise to deny it. I can say "sorry, it was not meant to be a soft-claim!" but does that make any difference?

And I definitely did not accuse you back until #901, which is after I explained fully what my alleged soft-claim was. There is simply no ambiguity, and I didn't take it up to you at all (before you again took it up to me without reason).

Did you miss my post #827 in the first place? Have you really read my summary? Too lazy as a scum to do? What you are stating here is clearly not what happened. Or are you now twisting the facts?
 

[timchen]

Also, it is self-contradictory in the sense that your theory contains both that my alleged softclaim is too obvious not to be called out and at that in order to succeed I cannot to be called out. Or more straightforwardly:

If I were scum to put forward this plan you proposed, I should not have soft-claimed in an obvious way because in my plann I could not afford to be called out. This directly violates your assumption/observation that my alleged softclaim is "too obvious" and therefore I cannot be a scum with a plan like that. 

[timchen]

Argh... fixed the first sentence:

Also, it is self-contradictory in the sense that your theory contains both that my alleged softclaim is too obvious not to be called out and that in order to succeed I cannot be called out.

In short it says something like I behave too obviously due to some reason that requires me not to behave that obviously... which is self-contradictory.

[Galzria]

Argh... fixed the first sentence:

Also, it is self-contradictory in the sense that your theory contains both that my alleged softclaim is too obvious not to be called out and that in order to succeed I cannot be called out.

In short it says something like I behave too obviously due to some reason that requires me not to behave that obviously... which is self-contradictory.

Not at all, at the time I was making that case, I certainly did NOT think you wanted to be called out, which is exactly why you made it so obvious.

[timchen]

That's interesting. So the more obvious I make it the less likely it will be called out?

[shark_bait]

Ummm... wow. 

@sharky: you are falling into Galz's trap.

Please just see who he has accused. First he went strongly on me and eevee together as a team. Then he switched to manda. Now he says how affirmative he is about eevee.

I swear to my heart there is no single logical fallacy on my arguments on Galzria. (If you do not agree I welcome you to point out where you find unsatisfying or even wrong.) And my argument points toward Galzria as a highly likely mafia. Specifically, I pointed out under several circumstances what Galzr did is not so explanable as town behavior.

To compare, what do you guys have on eevee? Just that he sheeps my reads too much? Why can a townie not do that (given that you do not find a place where my argument is fallacious?)

My goat with Eevee (which has been around long before Galz suggested it) - I came to the conclusion that scum might try to form a wagon against me as I would be considered an "easy" or "safe" lynch target.  Eevee came right out of the gate D2 with multiple sharky is skummy statements.  Vote for sharky!  I proposed the argument above as why Eevee was scummy.  I still hold to that argument.  Especially in light of Eevee's insistence of helping tc push the galz wagon.  In my mind, I am getting town reads on both tc and galz because it really looks like all of this was a big misunderstanding where a few details were lost by BOTH sides.  I have read reasonable arguments from both sides and I really want both to be town.  This is all I have time for now, but I will be back on later tonight.

[Galzria]

Guys, I have a really good reason for thinking Manda is town. Like, really good. You should just trust me on this because I'd rather not say why, but we should look at YN and Sharky instead.


Tell me that doesn't scream PR investigation? And if you read it, would you go "No, Galz, you need to claim NOW", or would you think "Man, he's probably the cop who investigated Manda and just doesn't wasn't to claim"?

[Galzria]

((The above is not real, but an illustration of a point))

[pingpongsam]

Haha, I'm glad you ended that post as you did because I was thinking, "what the holy... not again".

[timchen]

If I look that I would say it is definitely not a claim as claiming such thing as a cop is just stupid. Why do a cop want to paint a target on his back?

A scum fakeclaim in such obvious manner is also stupid. Is the scum pretending to be a stupid cop?

[timchen]

Let alone breadcrumbing for later claim, such obvious claim is already highly suspicious if not NKed.

[Galzria]

If I look that I would say it is definitely not a claim as claiming such thing as a cop is just stupid. Why do a cop want to paint a target on his back?

A scum fakeclaim in such obvious manner is also stupid. Is the scum pretending to be a stupid cop?

I agree on your first point. I disagree on your second.

[timchen]

But the first leads to the second. Unless you are talking about a stupid scum.

[Galzria]

Let alone breadcrumbing for later claim, such obvious claim is already highly suspicious if not NKed.

Again, I disagree. Even if he's not NK'd, all it takes is a full-claim, however unbelievable YOU find it D3, and town must decide to lynch the claimed cop or lose.

[Galzria]

Let alone breadcrumbing for later claim, such obvious claim is already highly suspicious if not NKed.

Again, I disagree. Even if he's not NK'd, all it takes is a full-claim, however unbelievable YOU find it D3, and town must decide to lynch the claimed cop or lose.

And not just one town, but ALL THREE must decide to lynch the cop-claim

[timchen]

That is, ok, I read your post about manda. In my thoughts:

1. Are you a stupid cop? WTF...
2. Ok, if not, are you then a scum fakeclaiming? (you stopped here and say yes, but I will continue as below)
3. If you were, then you are just drawing attention onto yourself with no benefit (as nobody will really think you are a cop because it is stupid for a cop to claim)
4. So you are probably not a scum fakeclaiming. Then what are you doing? And then I will ask. It is so obvious it shouldn't hurt to ask right?

And that is in my eyes what happened in my instance. And I explained what I said is just that. And later I speak out of what I kept secret and why. But then you are attacking me without reason.

[timchen]

Let alone breadcrumbing for later claim, such obvious claim is already highly suspicious if not NKed.

Again, I disagree. Even if he's not NK'd, all it takes is a full-claim, however unbelievable YOU find it D3, and town must decide to lynch the claimed cop or lose.

And not just one town, but ALL THREE must decide to lynch the cop-claim

So basically you are saying the town is willing to believe he is a stupid cop after all. So you are not only disagreeing with my second point but also the first.

[Galzria]

That is, ok, I read your post about manda. In my thoughts:

1. Are you a stupid cop? WTF...
2. Ok, if not, are you then a scum fakeclaiming? (you stopped here and say yes, but I will continue as below)
3. If you were, then you are just drawing attention onto yourself with no benefit (as nobody will really think you are a cop because it is stupid for a cop to claim)
4. So you are probably not a scum fakeclaiming. Then what are you doing? And then I will ask. It is so obvious it shouldn't hurt to ask right?

And that is in my eyes what happened in my instance. And I explained what I said is just that. And later I speak out of what I kept secret and why. But then you are attacking me without reason.

There was no reason to take it further. A cop does not have a reason to make that claim. Scum does. End of story. Are you stupid cop or scum? I figured scum. Now it's neither. Now the claim was just stupid.

I never attacked you without reason. Not once. My case was laid out prior to yours, and every response I made after was in response to false accusations you made against me.

[Galzria]

Let alone breadcrumbing for later claim, such obvious claim is already highly suspicious if not NKed.

Again, I disagree. Even if he's not NK'd, all it takes is a full-claim, however unbelievable YOU find it D3, and town must decide to lynch the claimed cop or lose.

And not just one town, but ALL THREE must decide to lynch the cop-claim

So basically you are saying the town is willing to believe he is a stupid cop after all. So you are not only disagreeing with my second point but also the first.

I believe that a cop claim out of the gates D3 lylo will be believed, no matter how poorly breadcrumbed it was earlier because your only other option is lynch the cop, which simply won't happen.

[timchen]

That is, ok, I read your post about manda. In my thoughts:

1. Are you a stupid cop? WTF...
2. Ok, if not, are you then a scum fakeclaiming? (you stopped here and say yes, but I will continue as below)
3. If you were, then you are just drawing attention onto yourself with no benefit (as nobody will really think you are a cop because it is stupid for a cop to claim)
4. So you are probably not a scum fakeclaiming. Then what are you doing? And then I will ask. It is so obvious it shouldn't hurt to ask right?

And that is in my eyes what happened in my instance. And I explained what I said is just that. And later I speak out of what I kept secret and why. But then you are attacking me without reason.

There was no reason to take it further. A cop does not have a reason to make that claim. Scum does. End of story. Are you stupid cop or scum? I figured scum. Now it's neither. Now the claim was just stupid.

I never attacked you without reason. Not once. My case was laid out prior to yours, and every response I made after was in response to false accusations you made against me.

Scum has no reason either as I outlined above. Can you not read that?

[timchen]

Let alone breadcrumbing for later claim, such obvious claim is already highly suspicious if not NKed.

Again, I disagree. Even if he's not NK'd, all it takes is a full-claim, however unbelievable YOU find it D3, and town must decide to lynch the claimed cop or lose.

And not just one town, but ALL THREE must decide to lynch the cop-claim

So basically you are saying the town is willing to believe he is a stupid cop after all. So you are not only disagreeing with my second point but also the first.

I believe that a cop claim out of the gates D3 lylo will be believed, no matter how poorly breadcrumbed it was earlier because your only other option is lynch the cop, which simply won't happen.

I don't know why you think so. It is almost equivalent as a full claim d2 this way. And how come a full-claimed cop remain alive d3 without a doctor, and how come that cop decided to claim without finding a scum? If that happens I am all for lynching the cop. And if I cannot convince the town the town deserves to lose.

[Galzria]

That is, ok, I read your post about manda. In my thoughts:

1. Are you a stupid cop? WTF...
2. Ok, if not, are you then a scum fakeclaiming? (you stopped here and say yes, but I will continue as below)
3. If you were, then you are just drawing attention onto yourself with no benefit (as nobody will really think you are a cop because it is stupid for a cop to claim)
4. So you are probably not a scum fakeclaiming. Then what are you doing? And then I will ask. It is so obvious it shouldn't hurt to ask right?

And that is in my eyes what happened in my instance. And I explained what I said is just that. And later I speak out of what I kept secret and why. But then you are attacking me without reason.

There was no reason to take it further. A cop does not have a reason to make that claim. Scum does. End of story. Are you stupid cop or scum? I figured scum. Now it's neither. Now the claim was just stupid.

I never attacked you without reason. Not once. My case was laid out prior to yours, and every response I made after was in response to false accusations you made against me.

Scum has no reason either as I outlined above. Can you not read that?

I don't just believe that you're wrong, I know that you are, because I've seen scum do it. Just because you don't think something can happen doesn't mean that it can not.

[Galzria]

Let alone breadcrumbing for later claim, such obvious claim is already highly suspicious if not NKed.

Again, I disagree. Even if he's not NK'd, all it takes is a full-claim, however unbelievable YOU find it D3, and town must decide to lynch the claimed cop or lose.

And not just one town, but ALL THREE must decide to lynch the cop-claim

So basically you are saying the town is willing to believe he is a stupid cop after all. So you are not only disagreeing with my second point but also the first.

I believe that a cop claim out of the gates D3 lylo will be believed, no matter how poorly breadcrumbed it was earlier because your only other option is lynch the cop, which simply won't happen.

I don't know why you think so. It is almost equivalent as a full claim d2 this way. And how come a full-claimed cop remain alive d3 without a doctor, and how come that cop decided to claim without finding a scum? If that happens I am all for lynching the cop. And if I cannot convince the town the town deserves to lose.

"IF I can't make the town see things my way, they deserve to lose" - nice attitude.

[pingpongsam]

"IF I can't make the town see things my way, they deserve to lose" - nice attitude.

A bit rich coming from the guy whose actions say, "If I can't make Town see things my way I shall fall on my sword".

[Galzria]

"IF I can't make the town see things my way, they deserve to lose" - nice attitude.

A bit rich coming from the guy whose actions say, "If I can't make Town see things my way I shall fall on my sword".

Only if you consider my play to be against town wincon, and as laid out, I do not. There are 2-3 town that have been less than active, and without their voices and votes a scumlynch simply cannot happen. (Which is why it's unfathomable to me that Timchen thinks I would self-vote or bus as scum - both of which I've been accused of).

Given the inability to lynch scum then, our options are lynch town or no-lynch. A no-lynch means a free kill for the Mafia, and any town member other than me or Timchen is a win for the Mafia since Tim will continue to insist I'm scum in lylo, handing the victory to the Mafia.

Thus the only logical conclusion to end this ceaseless cycle of arguing and give the town any chance to win is to lynch me or Tim. Since I don't think Tim is mafia, and he thinks I am, it makes the most sense for me to be the one that dies.

That said, if we could somehow get the 4 votes needed to lynch a scum today, I would gladly change my vote. But given that a mislynch doesn't end in lylo, it ends in a loss, I think there is more value in my being removed, proving I'm town, and going from there.

((mislynch not on me or Timchen = loss because he will give the scum the one vote they need on me tomorrow to hammer and win))