Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Galzria]

I'll gladly accept that. And do you mind me joking you now you definitely are not playing for your wincon, no matter whether you are town or mafia? (Ok, as mafia this may be a risky gambit)

Vote: Galzria

And if you really flip town, I promise I will look carefully at eevee.

Timchen, in some sense you're right. But this game is going in circles, and nobody else is participating. If you're Mafia I'll be really pissed, but you're more like IC to me now.

I don't KNOW who Eevee's partner is, but I'm SURE Eevee is scum. Since nobody else is participating this is the only thing that'll move the game forward - and at least by my reveal you and the town know the truth.

Lynch Eevee tomorrow, and town gets to a 2 on 1 final day matchup, which we can still win. And hell, maybe we do still have a Cop or Doc out there that can help even more.

So yeah, given the state of the game and the level of participation, a town lynch of me now trades for one scum tomorrow (and I beg you to sheep me reads on Eevee - You, and the rest of town) - I do actually think this is the best way to meet town wincon.

[shark_bait]

Last day, I lynched frisk for the sake of lynching.  I will not do that today.  I will not hammer Galz (at least today).  Consider this a hard statement of fact.  I didn't post much yesterday b/c well, I had no idea of how to respond to tc.  I still don't really know and will try to independently look through the facts later.  But for today, I'm content to set aside the Galz/TC conflict and lynch elsewhere.   I've expressed my suspicion of Eevee in this thread, and Galz, I'm willing to pursue this with you today.

Vote:  Eevee

[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 2-11

shark_bait (1): Young Nick
Galzria (3): Eevee, Galzria, timchen
manda2014 (1): pingpongsam
Eevee (1): shark_bait

Not Voting {1}: manda2014

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch

Lynch deadline: Monday, August 13, at 8:00 p.m. forum time (EDT)

[timchen]

@sharky: you are falling into Galz's trap.

Please just see who he has accused. First he went strongly on me and eevee together as a team. Then he switched to manda. Now he says how affirmative he is about eevee.

I swear to my heart there is no single logical fallacy on my arguments on Galzria. (If you do not agree I welcome you to point out where you find unsatisfying or even wrong.) And my argument points toward Galzria as a highly likely mafia. Specifically, I pointed out under several circumstances what Galzr did is not so explanable as town behavior.

To compare, what do you guys have on eevee? Just that he sheeps my reads too much? Why can a townie not do that (given that you do not find a place where my argument is fallacious?) 

[Galzria]

@sharky: you are falling into Galz's trap.

Please just see who he has accused. First he went strongly on me and eevee together as a team. Then he switched to manda. Now he says how affirmative he is about eevee.

I swear to my heart there is no single logical fallacy on my arguments on Galzria. (If you do not agree I welcome you to point out where you find unsatisfying or even wrong.) And my argument points toward Galzria as a highly likely mafia. Specifically, I pointed out under several circumstances what Galzr did is not so explanable as town behavior.

To compare, what do you guys have on eevee? Just that he sheeps my reads too much? Why can a townie not do that (given that you do not find a place where my argument is fallacious?)

I have explained where each and every one of your arguments is wrong, and I've spelled out exactly why I made the accusations I did. What it boils down to is that I was wrong, and to quote PPS, your play was "Piss poor town play".

[Eevee]

Galzria voting for himself is a huge wtf. I'm trying to decide if he legitimely abandoned his wincon and doesnt want to play or if this some sick gambit. If he is mafia with nick or manda, he just had to trust the other wouldnt hammer and in time the focus would shift to me because self-lynchers are always town? I dont knowww. I'm definitely town and I dont think I've played scummy at all. I am going to fight for my life, I just dont know what to respond to atm because I see no case against me.

I have wholeheartedly agreed with timchen's case against Galzria. I still do, but that self vote looks very odd.

[Galzria]

If YN or PPS comes and wants to join on an Eevee lynch I'll switch. Otherwise the lack of participation in this thread makes my own lynch the best way to move things forward, as you'll actually have concrete information to work with at the start of tomorrow.

[Galzria]

Galzria voting for himself is a huge wtf. I'm trying to decide if he legitimely abandoned his wincon and doesnt want to play or if this some sick gambit. If he is mafia with nick or manda, he just had to trust the other wouldnt hammer and in time the focus would shift to me because self-lynchers are always town? I dont knowww. I'm definitely town and I dont think I've played scummy at all. I am going to fight for my life, I just dont know what to respond to atm because I see no case against me.

I have wholeheartedly agreed with timchen's case against Galzria. I still do, but that self vote looks very odd.

Aww, trying to back away? How cute.

[timchen]

I am too lazy to argue with you right now. But I have my argument sorted and ready for dispute in the previous page.

[timchen]

You'll switch? I thought you said I have your vote?

[Galzria]

You'll switch? I thought you said I have your vote?

My vote goes where I feel it has the best chance of helping town win. I was trying to get you to open your eyes before, but you insist on not seeing anything that doesn't match what you want to believe.

[Eevee]

Galzria voting for himself is a huge wtf. I'm trying to decide if he legitimely abandoned his wincon and doesnt want to play or if this some sick gambit. If he is mafia with nick or manda, he just had to trust the other wouldnt hammer and in time the focus would shift to me because self-lynchers are always town? I dont knowww. I'm definitely town and I dont think I've played scummy at all. I am going to fight for my life, I just dont know what to respond to atm because I see no case against me.

I have wholeheartedly agreed with timchen's case against Galzria. I still do, but that self vote looks very odd.

Aww, trying to back away? How cute.

Trying to make sense of you. Sue me.

[Galzria]

Here's how I'm looking at things Tim:

There are 7 players alive, 5 of which are town and it takes 4 to lynch.

In order to lynch scum, we need 4 town votes.

The only active to semi-active people in this thread are Eevee, you and me.

That leaves YN/SB/PPS/Manda who aren't contributing much of anything.

Now, there MUST be 2 town in that set. And unless Eevee, you and me are all town, there are actually 3 town in that set.

3 out of the 5 town likely aren't really contributing. It takes 4 to lynch. With the level of participation in this thread, and you hellbent on lynching a townie, town will never lynch scum.

SO, how do we catch them? Well, I've made my case on Eevee, but understand why you wouldn't want to believe it's merits because, hey, he's supporting you! So if town cannot lynch scum because of the levels of participation, then we either lynch town or no-lynch.

What do you think happens in no lynch? Mafia kill innocent townie (say YN) and we are right back to this same spot tomorrow. You hellbent on lynching a townie and the rest of town lurking their way to a loss.

So at least by self-lynching, it forces a reveal that proves my townieness, giving something concrete for the town to try and work with tomorrow.

[Eevee]

Could we (Galzria timchen and myself) agree on lynching one of the lurkers? After all, there is two mafia, at least one of them has to be scum.

PPS, manda or sharky seem like the options to me (Young Nick is indeed giving away a town vibe). Any opinions?

[pingpongsam]

If YN or PPS comes and wants to join on an Eevee lynch I'll switch. Otherwise the lack of participation in this thread makes my own lynch the best way to move things forward, as you'll actually have concrete information to work with at the start of tomorrow.

I cannot in good conscience place an Eevee vote. The wagon on Galzria is a sad one to me because I also see him as town. I refuse to cast votes on people I read as town. That currently includes timchen. That said, I agree that a Galzria flip one direction or the other is a highly informative flip and am therefore not arguing against it, just refusing to contribute to his demise.

Out of who is left the remaining scum-feel I get is still from manda as basically I've made a case and ther has been zero refutation but then, there's been no need because the wagon on her dissipated as fast as it formed levaing me alone on that trail once again.

I would consider voting for Sharky or YN but am obviously in favor of a manda lynch. Out of all the dialogue spewing forth from timchen and Galzria all I got was Town slap fighting Town which Mafia must be eating up.

I have consistently made posts of what I feel to be substance and on the one day I was predisposed to be able to post I made it clear beforehand and am now posting when I said I would. As such, I do not appreciate being called a lurker.

[pingpongsam]

I'd add that lurking implies reading but not posting which I am not guilty of in the least.

[Galzria]

I'd add that lurking implies reading but not posting which I am not guilty of in the least.

Well, my point was rather a lack of greater involvement and little participation. I think Manda is a fine place for a vote, but I'm more convinced of Eevee. I'm not going to force Timchen to vote anywhere, so Manda wasn't going to get above 2, so there wasn't much point in being there. If she wanted to respond, she would've done so. Instead she came, commented, and left again.

[pingpongsam]

Is standing on a vote an refusing to get sucked into what appears to be an obvious town lynch trap considered little participation?

[pingpongsam]

Let me see a case on Eevee. I'm apparently blind to his scum wizardry.

[timchen]

Out of all the dialogue spewing forth from timchen and Galzria all I got was Town slap fighting Town which Mafia must be eating up.

@PPS: can you explain why mafia then not push galzria lynch first then lynch me next day? At some point 2 days ago probably there are plenty of time doing this.

Also, while I understand you have a town read on Galzria based on his style of post (I had that town read too!) please also compare what two of us are saying. I have summarized what I said in the last page.

What I said from the start of our argument till now are identical and consistent. The only consistent explanation I can get from Galzria's behavior is that he is mafia. (If you don't agree, can you do me a favor to explain the 3 red alerts I outlined in the previous page? If you can persuade me those are consistent town play, I may as well throw away my case on Galzria.)

How about Galz's arguments? He started with a story that eevee and I are scum pairs. Once he gave up fighting my arguments, he pushes a manda wagon. Then today he said eevee has always been the #1 suspect for him. And now he said his play is to enable us to move on expecting that you, manda, sharky, and YN will semi-lurk.

None of the actions he has taken make good sense. I've spoken a lot for his argument of me. (Even though now he said that it is because he had to take my secrecy as fakeclaim, that story does not fit how he had behaved during we are arguing.) I didn't see any reasoning why pushing a manda wagon if his #1 suspect is in fact eevee. And I don't see reasoning either why he wants us to move on without the rest of town. I am willing to wait. And I certainly have to believe they have enough reasoning for us to win the game instead of trying to lynch someone right now for the sake of moving the game on.


Dear PPS, I will ask a favor from you to vote for Galzria.

@Galzria: just wanna remind you ok so if you are not giving your vote to me, then you still have my vote. Do you want me to vote for eevee?

[Galzria]

Well, first off, of you consider me town (and I certainly do!), consider first his D1 play:

After the Frisk wagon started building (but before it took off), Eevee started the whole "Frisk is town" parade of posts. This didn't really bother me as everyone is entitled to their opinions, although I thought that his certainty of it was slightly off-putting. Remember, one of the things that I was preaching D1 was that town knows nothing while scum knows much.

Instead however, he spent the day campaigning for my lynch, instead of Frisk's. This was a little alarming because, well, his whole reason was that too many people trusted me. Timchen keeps asking why a Mafia Eevee would do not vote for Frisk and just get him lynched, but he fails to take a few different things into account:

A) f.DS has never no-lynch, and there was no precedent that it would happen here.

B) Given that the two wagons that had life at that time were me and CF, both of whom are town, then why in the world would a Mafia-Eevee switch? Someone was going to get lynched, and it was going to be town at that point. Certainly mafia would prefer to be off the wagon, right? And switching late is generally considered scummy. So there is absolutely no reason for a Mafia to switch from one town wagon to a different one just to force through a lynch that was likely to happen anyway.

Eevee then opens today with "I told you so":

 http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=JEEP%27s_Tells_for_Finding_Mafia

See: Gloating

---

As for D2 play, Eevee has offered very little contribution on Timchen and I, except to constantly egg Timchen on. Consider: For most of the day, if I were lynched, what would happen tomorrow after I flipped town? Timchen would be insta-lynched. The few town that are left would see his massive case for me (to which I have completely refuted), and they would know I'm town. It only takes one of them to vote for town Timchen and the Mafia hammer away for victory.

So if Timchen and myself are both town, you're absolutely right that Mafia would be eating it up. Looking at the way Eevee played D1, claiming one town was "obvtown" when there was no way to know it (tell #1, information), setting up a different town wagon (tell #2 & #3, leading and setting up a mislynch) - and the way he played D2 by gloating at the start (tell #4) and even more setting up a mislynch (Me/Timchen, today/tomorrow), I think there's a pretty firm case.

[timchen]

Galzria, can you make an argument on eevee NOT assuming you are town? That way I can probably see how it is better not to lynch you today. Since I read your entirely post based on the fact that you are town, it almost increases my will (if it can still be increased!) on lynching you first. It becomes really a better and better plan in my eyes:

lynch you , if you flip mafia, lynch manda next.
                if you flip town, lynch eevee as per your dying wish.

[timchen]

Also just for some food for thought: usually being consistent is more town than mafia. The reason is actually sort of bad, because there is confirmation bias I think. But the important thing is, mafia knows who are town in this game, and generally there are confused town, so changing their mind from time to time is not huge risk. A mafia member has no particular reason to insist on lynching one particular town and saving the other. He can plan things, sure, but he has the flexibility to change his plan (like what you are doing here, Galz.) Not using that flexibility is generally a town tell except for WIFOM reasons.

PPS refuses to believe Galz is scum. Eevee insists on saving frisk and lynching Galzria. I insist my case on Galzria. Myself excluded, those two are town tells to me.

[timchen]

Oh and I should also add that eevee insists that manda is town.

[timchen]

And let me tell this Galz. All your accusation has confirmation bias. That is, indeed to some extent what eevee did can be viewed logically as what mafia would have done.

The problem is, what he did can also be easily explained as town. (If you want to say his insistence on frisk, do you want to lynch PPS for his insistence on you?)

My accusation on you is different. My 3 red alerts are things that I can explain logically when you are scum, but I cannot explain them logically when you are town.