Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[pingpongsam]

oh, that softclaim, yeah um, I would not have done that.

[Galzria]

oh, that softclaim, yeah um, I would not have done that.

You see my suspicion then, thinking it was you who had said that? You were too masterful in M-VI to be that... Blunt.

But it wasn't you! And... Now I have a real dilemma on my hands over how I feel a Town Timchen would play vs a Mafia Timchen.

[timchen]

@manda: To clarify, I was not soft-claiming there. I have (logical, not definite) reasons to believe that eevee is not scum currently but I think it is better not to reveal it yet.

[manda2014]

Does anyone else find it odd that timchen tells us he has these reasons for things but then won't tell us what they are until later? He did this early D1 with Frisk, if you recall.

[pingpongsam]

I am akways suspicious of claims to know something that is to be revealed later. If it is truly useful information then Town can use it ASAP. If there really is a good reason to keep the information under wraps then there is just as good a reason to not publicly claim to know something that you are not telling.

[Galzria]

Does anyone else find it odd that timchen tells us he has these reasons for things but then won't tell us what they are until later? He did this early D1 with Frisk, if you recall.

Yes. And I don't buy that wasn't a softclaim. That's exactly what he wanted us to think it was. Look at the way it was posted. If it wasn't a softclaim then he is DEFINITELY leading the town.

I have to think then that it WAS - and furthemore, while Tim hates secrecy, he's not stupid. He knows that sort of statement would get read as a softclaim. As a town PR, he would know that he was setting himself to be NK'd, as there can't be a Doctor AND Cop left.

I just cannot see that statement is made from a town player. It's misleading, and if he has nothing concrete on Eevee (an investigation), it's just as likely to be wrong.

My analysis for that claim (regardless of it being PPS or Tim) stands, and it's enough to get a vote from me. Especially after he claims it wasn't a claim at all

Vote: Timchen

[Young Nick]

Does anyone else find it odd that timchen tells us he has these reasons for things but then won't tell us what they are until later? He did this early D1 with Frisk, if you recall.

Yes, I find it weird. Having said that, different people have different playing styles. I think it would make sense for him to explain these reasons if Eevee were under fire, but still, it doesn't make sense to hold them close to his chest. It is delaying the inevitable.

[manda2014]

Even if it is what he says it is, it still seems to me to be, at best, really bad town play. It's one thing to have a hunch but not say anything until you get more evidence. It's another thing ENTIRELY to SAY you "know" something but then just leave it hanging like that with no explanation. All it does is cause confusion. And stated like that it OBVIOUSLY sounds like a soft claim. There's no way he wouldn't have seen that when he was posting it.

[Young Nick]

@Galzria: Note that he did the same thing D1 despite having no way of having concrete evidence. One might say it's a softclaim, but I see it as an unorthodox style of play.

While you are not trying to lead the town, it is worth noting that you were silent for 36+ hours and then come in calling out everybody. Me, PPS, timchen, a bit of manda. Just not too much on S_B or Eevee. What are your thoughts on those two?

[Young Nick]

I find this analagous to S_B's too obvious scum-tell back in D1. You guys let S_B off the hook because he is a n00b, but timchen doesn't get such an easy pass. I think it's fairer to be consistent, and not treat S_B as if he is totally inexperienced.

[Galzria]

@Galzria: Note that he did the same thing D1 despite having no way of having concrete evidence. One might say it's a softclaim, but I see it as an unorthodox style of play.

While you are not trying to lead the town, it is worth noting that you were silent for 36+ hours and then come in calling out everybody. Me, PPS, timchen, a bit of manda. Just not too much on S_B or Eevee. What are your thoughts on those two?

SB I think is town. Eevee I've stated multiple times I think is the second most likely scum here (go back and read my posts).

While you're going back, you'll also notice that I haven't called out Manda (as you claim), and only PPS because I made a mistake (so you're wrong there too).

[Young Nick]

Alright, will you explain why no lynch is better.  I've put my case down on why a lynch is better than no lynch in this game.  I have seen no one argue why it would be better to go no lynch.  If someone has something, I'd be interested in hearing it.

FYI, I did not know that CF was town. 

Now put yourself in my shoes.  You play very scummy mafia throughout the beginning of the game and end the day with red flags flags going around on all but 3 people.  Those people are Galz, Robz and CF.  (Read CF and Robz post to verify if you want, I will tell you that they are there.  Galz, feel free to counter if I've misinterpreted you).  You want a lynch because you realize that you still get 2 more chances at lynching regardless of whether you no lynch or not.  So you decide to lynch 1 of the 3 people defending you as town.  Now it's night time, you need a night kill.  You think to yourself, let's kill Robz because he is ANOTHER person who was defending me.  Now you have just put yourself in a position where the majority of the town is willing and ready to kill you.

Okay, time to step out of my shoes.  I know what you are thinking about right now.

WIFOM



Galz, if I'm wrong about your D1 assessment, feel free to counter.

Now why in the world as a mafia member would I kill off 2 of the 3 people defending me?

Think about that.

See, I don't agree with this post. It is true that those three (more or less) were the only ones actively defending S_B in D1. However, not many people were very active in their campaign against him. People say that someone should investigate over-night and make him a D2 target if the results are that he is Mafia.

This strategy clearly doesn't work so well when our Jailkeeper is dead and we know there is only a 1/3 chance that we have a Cop.

Come D2 and the S_B train has blown over. He doesn't take much heat. He may have killed one of his only believers, but no one really cares, either way. If he's Mafia, he might as well kill anyone but his partner as long as it ensures safety in the future, which killing Robz has done for him.

He has been relatively absent. His only D2 posts are defending his actions (including the quoted post) and explaining how IRL work would prevent him from posting much until yesterday at 6PM. He has said nothing since then, despite there being a lot of time and chatter.

He is laying low, though I can forgive him for this if he has actually been busy IRL. However, he has not really added anything to the game so far. He has been suspicious of no one.

I think he is playing Mafia in a bold manner. I still want to hear him talk about others he's wary of.

Vote: Shark_Bait

[Young Nick]

@Galzria: Note that he did the same thing D1 despite having no way of having concrete evidence. One might say it's a softclaim, but I see it as an unorthodox style of play.

While you are not trying to lead the town, it is worth noting that you were silent for 36+ hours and then come in calling out everybody. Me, PPS, timchen, a bit of manda. Just not too much on S_B or Eevee. What are your thoughts on those two?

SB I think is town. Eevee I've stated multiple times I think is the second most likely scum here (go back and read my posts).

While you're going back, you'll also notice that I haven't called out Manda (as you claim), and only PPS because I made a mistake (so you're wrong there too).

Yeah, that is all true upon re-reading.

[timchen]

@manda: Well, I can explain the d1 frisk case, in case you forget. My content basically is that from frisk's theory of forcing-to-claim I am pretty sure he is not PR. So if he was forced to claim and claimed PR, he must be mafia. Apparently this logic does not work if I put out my argument that he cannot be PR ahead. That is why I am pushing the wagon and "hiding the reasons". Strictly speaking you can see I am actually not hiding the reason as the reason is only valid when he claimed PR.

For the current case on eevee I don't have as good a reason not to reveal. I have to say I really haven't thought of the possibility of that being viewed as a soft claim. The reason I do not want to reveal is just that I want to see how scum will respond.

In all seriousness, (ignoring my argument about eevee for now) I think everyone agrees that there should be 1 scum between eevee, YN and manda, just based on the fact that with 2 scums on the wagon it is near impossible for the scum to choose to kill Robz. So especially for manda, if you knew you were town, you should focus your scum search on eevee and YN. For this reason I am very suspicious you are scum.

[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 2-5

shark_bait (2): Eevee, Young Nick
manda2014 (2): pingpongsam, timchen
timchen (1): Galzria

Not Voting {2}: manda2014, shark_bait

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch

Lynch deadline: Monday, August 13, at 8:00 p.m. forum time (EDT)

[pingpongsam]

Volt's count is wrong. It is L-1 on Shark_Bait since Galzria voted him.

[Galzria]

Volt's count is wrong. It is L-1 on Shark_Bait since Galzria voted him.

I... Did?

[pingpongsam]

No, I interpolated yours and Nick's posts. My apologies, Volt's count is correct.

[Young Nick]

Bump!

[timchen]

@Young_Nick: how do you think about manda?

[shark_bait]

On now, am starting to catch up on everything right.  Starting with D2 stuff, and then I plan to look back through D1. 

[timchen]

Glad to see you online! After you finish reviewing can you please weigh in on Manda and Young_Nick?

[shark_bait]

Will do, it might take me awhile as there is a lot to do.  I'll try to stay focused and present my thoughts within the next couple of hours.

[Young Nick]

@Young_Nick: how do you think about manda?

Well, throughout D1 she mostly voiced opinions that I agreed with. Looking back on many of her most recent posts, I see her hedging a little bit and not adding too much of substance, not all too different than S_B. The difference here is that while I feel like S_B might be avoiding lots of posting, manda has not shied away from her opinions. It's just that she only seems to examine at surface level. Until she looks deeper than that, I don't give her words that much importance. It might be a WIFOM trick to slip under the radar, but I think it's just inadvertent shallow reading.

I am not sure if this is lynch worthy, but it is the read I have on her. Generally, her play seems like uninspiring town play. However, I do feel like it's town play. If she were Mafia, she would probably be throwing a bit more dirt onto other people for slightly deeper reasons than she has provided so far.

[Young Nick]

Glad to see you online! After you finish reviewing can you please weigh in on Manda and Young_Nick?

Why just us two? You've probably stated this somewhere else, but there is no Eevee here and, in general, there has not been that much discussion of wagoners. I'm not saying we should be voting for people on the wagon, but I still think that discussing them is important. Kind of like a, "if I were to vote for someone who voted C_F, I would vote ____."

I still stand by S_B.

Also, I want to hear from PPS. It's been a while.