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[pingpongsam]

Frisk is the perfect person to lynch. It's a different Day 1 kill than we usually do, which will be nice, because we are always wrong. He has been making SUCH an effort to be good Mr. Townie. And we know we aren't killing a town power role. Really, he's the best lynch at this point.

Which is why you're voting Sharky, right?

[pingpongsam]

Frisk is the perfect person to lynch. It's a different Day 1 kill than we usually do, which will be nice, because we are always wrong. He has been making SUCH an effort to be good Mr. Townie. And we know we aren't killing a town power role. Really, he's the best lynch at this point.

Which is why you're voting Sharky, right?

NVM misread the last official count.

[Eevee]

Vote:Young Nick

Thought about it while brushing teeth, and most want either Nick or timchen. Better get the vote on before the sleeps so you can ponder.

Oh and I have a feeling pne mafia is a guy I trust atm and the other is someone I suspect.

[timchen]

I will be V/LA starting from Friday and throughout the weekend, so I would certainly like to have a lynch determined before that.

As I said, if frisk is town, it is highly inconceivable that his wagon contains no scum. I know I am not scum and up to now I had some good reasons to believe PPS, Galzria, and Robz. (If frisk flips town however, I am going for Robz next.) Seriously I think my arguments against him is better than any other arguments in this game (except probably Robz's policy lynch, but that is countered by frisk's lists.)

I also think it fits his play style that he won't be more eager to form other wagons at L-1 as that looks scummy to him. This is WIFOM though. But if you are unsure, here's a few points I'd like to highlight:
(1) he lied at #106, even though it is not about this game. As a townie I would imagine he would have tried to avoid lying. 
(2) he refuses to claim at L-1. I would say at this point the consensus of the town is that he is no PR. Up to now he has expressed no intention to even hint otherwise. What prevents him from admitting VT directly?
(3) From his tables and my analysis I got a pair of frisk/YN. It's compatible with how the day goes I would say. There is also a distant possibility that frisk/shark made a very bold play by ranking each other at 8th.

That being said, I would also vote for a robz lynch right now! The more I think the more I can imagine it is mafia robz who is just trying something bold and different.

[shark_bait]

That being said, I would also vote for a robz lynch right now! The more I think the more I can imagine it is mafia robz who is just trying something bold and different.

Then join me.

[timchen]

Shark, why don't you join me? I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on those points I've posted against frisk.

[Eevee]

1) mafia wants to avoid lying too, even more so (townies are less cautious and careful with their posts)
2) as i said, i think frisk handled the l-1 exceptionally well. and i think mafia is much more likely to claim.
3) those tables can be used to prove just about any pair.

if frisk is mafia, he must be loving me defending him all the time but you asked everyone to comment..

[timchen]

(1) put yourself at frisk's seat for a minute. You KNEW yourself and timchen are already opponents in M6. Why on earth would you want to tell a lie there as a VT, while there is entirely no need of mentioning it? Just for fun? As a mafia I can see him trying to appear casual and imprint a subtle townie feel there. It's pretty hard to foresee that he'll flip that early in M6 and there will be people going back and looking at this innocent non-game related small post.

(2) I think your reason is exactly why frisk didn't claim. In fact, that is the only reason I can think of. I mean, do you really think as a VT, will claiming VT look worse?

(3) Not true. Give me an example. (I agree not from my perspective there will be a lot of possibilities involving myself though. But given I know I am town there is hardly any subjective choice there. )

[Captain_Frisk]

I will be V/LA starting from Friday and throughout the weekend, so I would certainly like to have a lynch determined before that.

As I said, if frisk is town, it is highly inconceivable that his wagon contains no scum. I know I am not scum and up to now I had some good reasons to believe PPS, Galzria, and Robz. (If frisk flips town however, I am going for Robz next.) Seriously I think my arguments against him is better than any other arguments in this game (except probably Robz's policy lynch, but that is countered by frisk's lists.)

I also think it fits his play style that he won't be more eager to form other wagons at L-1 as that looks scummy to him. This is WIFOM though. But if you are unsure, here's a few points I'd like to highlight:
(1) he lied at #106, even though it is not about this game. As a townie I would imagine he would have tried to avoid lying. 
(2) he refuses to claim at L-1. I would say at this point the consensus of the town is that he is no PR. Up to now he has expressed no intention to even hint otherwise. What prevents him from admitting VT directly?
(3) From his tables and my analysis I got a pair of frisk/YN. It's compatible with how the day goes I would say. There is also a distant possibility that frisk/shark made a very bold play by ranking each other at 8th.

That being said, I would also vote for a robz lynch right now! The more I think the more I can imagine it is mafia robz who is just trying something bold and different.

#1: What was my lie in #106?  I reread it - and its perfectly truthful - regardless of what is going on elsewhere.  Note - you're getting very close to inappropriately discussing that other game.

#2: As for not claiming - I didn't.  I'm still alive, and scum haven't learned anything, but now we have some wagon analysis.  This is the best possible result.  Mafia has learned nothing - town has learned something.

#3: There are 10 possible pairings of people who ranked each other 3-6.  I am in 1 of those pairs with Young Nick.  You are in 4 of those pairs - with Eevee, manda, young_nick, and shark_bait.  I see no reason that Me + YN is any more plausible than any of your pairs.  Moreover - I don't think that the analysis is really worthwhile.  Seeing pairs at this point is way too aggressive.

Finally - you've admitted that you wanted to lynch me even if I claimed a PR.  Are you really going to unvote if I go and claim VT? 

[Captain_Frisk]

(1) put yourself at frisk's seat for a minute. You KNEW yourself and timchen are already opponents in M6.

You're over the line here.  We can't talk about that game.  In fact - it is not even confirmed that we are not on the same team in that game.

[Robz888]

Frisk is right timchen. Do NOT discuss that game.

[timchen]

(1) put yourself at frisk's seat for a minute. You KNEW yourself and timchen are already opponents in M6.

You're over the line here.  We can't talk about that game.  In fact - it is not even confirmed that we are not on the same team in that game.

Yeah, you are right. Sorry about that.

[timchen]

#3: There are 10 possible pairings of people who ranked each other 3-6.  I am in 1 of those pairs with Young Nick.  You are in 4 of those pairs - with Eevee, manda, young_nick, and shark_bait.  I see no reason that Me + YN is any more plausible than any of your pairs.  Moreover - I don't think that the analysis is really worthwhile.  Seeing pairs at this point is way too aggressive.

Finally - you've admitted that you wanted to lynch me even if I claimed a PR.  Are you really going to unvote if I go and claim VT? 

#3: I agree yours is not more suspicious than mine. I also can agree it probably is not that useful. But you can understand from my perspective how this coincidence (that I am everywhere on the list) helps me single out a single entry!

And yes, if you had claimed earlier that you are VT I would have immediately unvoted. That was my original plan. But really, your refusal to claim makes me suspect you more. (Maybe it was just because I wanted you to claim so that you just did not want to claim?) If you claim now, I may unvote, but I don't see that happening.

[Robz888]

Uh, Frisky, automatch just threw us together, please accept...

[manda2014]

(1) Not going to discuss it.
(2) This is a good point, but even when he was at L-1 there wasn't a very imminent hammer, and if not claiming was a gamble on the part of a PR, not wanting to give mafia info, it payed off now that his wagon has died down. Also, I think mafia would be very likely to claim at L-1. On the other hand, not panicing makes him look like town, which would be very important if he IS mafia. Lots of WIFOM.
(3) So many possible pairings that I'm wary of putting much stock in them. The night should give us some information that will make those much more informative, but I don't think we can get a massive amount of information out of it right now.

[Eevee]

frisk, please dont ruin this by claiming.

[timchen]

@manda: for (2), do you approve of my theory that as a PR frisk is rather unlikely to put forward his theory of pressing to claim earlier in the day?

[shark_bait]

I'm really going to slap myself in the face if I find out this CF is scum.  But having a really hard time seeing him as mafia with the great extent that he's been pro-town.  Part of it has to do with the way that he defended me.  Why would scum go out on a limb to support not lynching me.  Also the extent that he's tried to generate conversation seems very pro-town.  If he was mafia, he could have claimed a PR at L-1.  If no counter claim comes, then as a town we're in a pickle.  If someone does counter claim, we've just given the mafia more information to work with. 

And the reason that I don't %100 trust him.... what if he guessed we could come to those arguments and decided it was in his best scummy interests to be the best townie possible.

[manda2014]

@manda: for (2), do you approve of my theory that as a PR frisk is rather unlikely to put forward his theory of pressing to claim earlier in the day?

I wouldn't say "he can only be mafia" for that reason. But, yes, I agree that pushing for claims at the beginning of D1 is, at the very least, a really bad idea, especially for someone who actually IS a PR. At the worst, yeah, it's scummy.

And the reason that I don't %100 trust him.... what if he guessed we could come to those arguments and decided it was in his best scummy interests to be the best townie possible.

And there you have the essence of the WIFOM.

[Robz888]

I'm really going to slap myself in the face if I find out this CF is scum.  But having a really hard time seeing him as mafia with the great extent that he's been pro-town.  Part of it has to do with the way that he defended me.  Why would scum go out on a limb to support not lynching me.  Also the extent that he's tried to generate conversation seems very pro-town.  If he was mafia, he could have claimed a PR at L-1.  If no counter claim comes, then as a town we're in a pickle.  If someone does counter claim, we've just given the mafia more information to work with. 

And the reason that I don't %100 trust him.... what if he guessed we could come to those arguments and decided it was in his best scummy interests to be the best townie possible.

Yeah, but there's no reason for the mafia to be anything but pro-town here. What's pro-town? Relentless info gathering? Him not claiming a PR makes this a no brainer for me. For one thing, I wouldn't put it past a mafia player to not claim PR at this point, because the popular thing so far has been to definitely claim PR when you're in trouble. A skilled mafia might anticipate a collective move away from trusting thosr last minute claims--and also the last minute claims, when fake, can get you in trouble with the real PR. But whether he's lying or not, we know we aren't going to kill one of the real PR's by lynching him. Even better, if we lynch him without getting anybody else to L-1, we don't risk forcing any of our PRs to come out. This is all good.

Am I confident he's mafia? No. But look, on Day 1 with this setup we might as well pick randomly. Seems to me Frisk is a good deal better than random at this point, and better than the other options.

[timchen]

Robz why don't you comment on my points... nothing to add?

[Robz888]

Robz why don't you comment on my points... nothing to add?

Well, I can't discuss MVI, and any speculation about pairs at this point is baseless.

As for his claim, if you get to L-1 and don't spell it out exactly, you're essentially claiming VT. SO he's either VT or a mafia who thought his best move was to not say anything about his role. I could see it either way. But I'm pretty sure we won't be mislynching a townie PR if we kill him, which is really quit eimportant.

[Galzria]

Robz why don't you comment on my points... nothing to add?

Well, I can't discuss MVI, and any speculation about pairs at this point is baseless.

As for his claim, if you get to L-1 and don't spell it out exactly, you're essentially claiming VT. SO he's either VT or a mafia who thought his best move was to not say anything about his role. I could see it either way. But I'm pretty sure we won't be mislynching a townie PR if we kill him, which is really quit eimportant.

I would've sworn the same of TINAS though... But, (no offense Frisk!) CF is not TINAS. I agree pretty strongly with your assessment Robz.

[timchen]

It's interesting hearing you saying that no claim=VT claim. I do not agree that they are identical (meaning two things: first is that in rare occasions PR role may also choose not to claim and the second is that saying out loud VT is not the same as saying nothing) but I can see your perspective.

[Captain_Frisk]

Galzria - do you agree with RobZ that straight up lynching a vanilla town is better than pushing another wagon?