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[Captain_Frisk]

Ok - i have results for:

Galzria, YoungNick, Captain_Frisk, Shark_bait, pps

Waiting for:
RobZ
eeVee
Manda
timchen

[pingpongsam]

Would be willing to Lynch
Robz

Might be willing to Lynch
Manda
PPS
YN
TC
Galz
Eevee
CF

With the might be list in order of most likely (If I weren't voting for Robz, I'd probably be voting one of these) to least likely (I don't 100% trust them, but I will not support a wagon against them)

And look who is at the bottom of his list. This further reinforces the picture that CF is Sharky's scumbuddy.

Below is the Sharky process that communicates to me that he and Frisk are scumbuddies.

Sharky:
1. Early RVS on Frisk to create the needed distancing
2. Explanation for vote is it was intended to give us the impression he is town.
3. Frisk admonishes such a dumb play
4. Backs up and says his vote was just following the leader (timchen)
5. Claims VT (terrible town play under these circumstances)
6. Tries to implicate the people who have had the audacity to vote against him (me and YN)
7. Changes vote to RobZ
8. Further clarifies stance on Frisk and puts lots of distance in there
9. Continues to focus on Robz

Frisk:
1. RVS timchen
2. Admonishes PPS for misunderstanding game setup (this plays in later when PPS brings the heat)
3. FoS Robz (no way Sharky followed that lead, right?)
4. Baits us to vote him so he can roleclaim (yeah a loose interpretation, here but is how timchen read it)
5. Asks Sharky to explain the vote on him (cmon buddy makes some distance and I'll paint you as clueless noob)
6. Watches in horror as Sharky spills the beans
7. Starts painting Sharky as too smart to make such an error
8. Helps clarify that Sharky is claiming to be VT
9. Continues to belabor the point that Sharky is a noob and couldn't possibly be playing an advanced game despite already establishing his aptitude
10. Blazes a trail and encourages others to follow on manda (Sharky you divert to Robz and I'll divert to manda who happens to be voting for you)

[Galzria]

Interesting... I need to see the other 4's lists, but there are a couple of notable patterns thusfar.

YN, you are not alone in your feelings for S_B. I too find him the scummiest person in. this thread. But with 50% of setups including a Cop, I'm willing to wait a day and see what happens. PPS also finds him quite scummy. So don't feel bad, your read here isn't wrong - I just think it's worth not pursuing for a day.

[Galzria]

This person sees things I see.

Would be willing to Lynch
Robz

Might be willing to Lynch
Manda
PPS
YN
TC
Galz
Eevee
CF

With the might be list in order of most likely (If I weren't voting for Robz, I'd probably be voting one of these) to least likely (I don't 100% trust them, but I will not support a wagon against them)

And look who is at the bottom of his list. This further reinforces the picture that CF is Sharky's scumbuddy.

Below is the Sharky process that communicates to me that he and Frisk are scumbuddies.

Sharky:
1. Early RVS on Frisk to create the needed distancing
2. Explanation for vote is it was intended to give us the impression he is town.
3. Frisk admonishes such a dumb play
4. Backs up and says his vote was just following the leader (timchen)
5. Claims VT (terrible town play under these circumstances)
6. Tries to implicate the people who have had the audacity to vote against him (me and YN)
7. Changes vote to RobZ
8. Further clarifies stance on Frisk and puts lots of distance in there
9. Continues to focus on Robz

Frisk:
1. RVS timchen
2. Admonishes PPS for misunderstanding game setup (this plays in later when PPS brings the heat)
3. FoS Robz (no way Sharky followed that lead, right?)
4. Baits us to vote him so he can roleclaim (yeah a loose interpretation, here but is how timchen read it)
5. Asks Sharky to explain the vote on him (cmon buddy makes some distance and I'll paint you as clueless noob)
6. Watches in horror as Sharky spills the beans
7. Starts painting Sharky as too smart to make such an error
8. Helps clarify that Sharky is claiming to be VT
9. Continues to belabor the point that Sharky is a noob and couldn't possibly be playing an advanced game despite already establishing his aptitude
10. Blazes a trail and encourages others to follow on manda (Sharky you divert to Robz and I'll divert to manda who happens to be voting for you)

[Captain_Frisk]

@young_nick - see PPS post #401 for another example.  He is confidently seeing pairs on day 1.  Clearly the game is already solved.

[Captain_Frisk]

This person sees things I see.

Galz - you must be joking.

[shark_bait]

PPS, you are inferring an incredibly complex situation with many steps.  Let me offer a simpler one.

1.  I impulsively responded to TC to start getting things going
2.  I made some early posts that sounded scummy and were not in the interest of the town
3.  I recognize my poor play and try to make people understand my intentions which just make me seem even more scummy.

To summarize, it seems like every single post I make continues to make me look mafia to the eyes of some people.  Some people are going to a scum hunting party and are latching on to every single minute detail of my actions trying to patch together complex situations.  Only 2 people in this entire thread seem to think, "Hey, maybe SB is just a noob."

Everytime I say something, it just gets turned on me.  I've given my explanation in multiple places now and I really don't think I can add anything new to my side.

@PPS, What's so bad about being suspicious of Robz?  And I don't want you to show me point 3 of CF's condemnation.  I read that.  I'm pretty sure most all of us have had a FoS pointed at us at some point.  Is it a crime to post the first vote?

[shark_bait]

Another random thought, but if I were the mafia, I would absolutely LOVE all of this finger pointing going on right now.

[pingpongsam]

@PPS, What's so bad about being suspicious of Robz?  And I don't want you to show me point 3 of CF's condemnation.  I read that.  I'm pretty sure most all of us have had a FoS pointed at us at some point.  Is it a crime to post the first vote?

I think Robz is perfectly deserving of suspicion. I have cast a FoS his way already.

I have fully and completely fleshed out my case here. I see no reason to belabor this point any further. I only responded because Frisk asked me to, I felt I had made myself clear before but apparently not.

[Captain_Frisk]

@PPS, What's so bad about being suspicious of Robz?  And I don't want you to show me point 3 of CF's condemnation.  I read that.  I'm pretty sure most all of us have had a FoS pointed at us at some point.  Is it a crime to post the first vote?

I think Robz is perfectly deserving of suspicion. I have cast a FoS his way already.

I have fully and completely fleshed out my case here. I see no reason to belabor this point any further. I only responded because Frisk asked me to, I felt I had made myself clear before but apparently not.

Why would robZ deserve suspicion?  You have already found the mafia.

[pingpongsam]

Why would robZ deserve suspicion?  You have already found the mafia.

You ask for clarification on my case then make no effort to refute it but only ridicule it.

How do you suppose I or anyone else interprets that sort of behavior?

I don't want a town mislynch, so if you're town put up a fight not just some silly retorts.
Somebody in here clarified (maybe you) that FoS was when you had your vote on one guy but were looking at another.
Just trying to play like the big boys, here.

[Captain_Frisk]

Why would robZ deserve suspicion?  You have already found the mafia.

You ask for clarification on my case then make no effort to refute it but only ridicule it.

How do you suppose I or anyone else interprets that sort of behavior?

I don't want a town mislynch, so if you're town put up a fight not just some silly retorts.
Somebody in here clarified (maybe you) that FoS was when you had your vote on one guy but were looking at another.
Just trying to play like the big boys, here.

I don't really want to put up a fight - because I think we are two townies arguing - and this distraction only helps the scum. 

My viewpoint is that seeing a pair of scum at this point is not very plausible.  The reason I asked for your view on SB was that I would get a better view from you as to whether you thought him to be a bad mafia player (making obv. scum statements) , or a very crafty one (making statements so obviously scummy that he couldn't possibly be mafia).

I settled on thinking that SB was too crafty to do #1, and as a n00b, probably too afraid to do #2.  I've made my share of n00b mistakes (rolefishing in MIV stands out as one example) - but when I drew the serial killer role in MIV - even with only ~1 day of mafia 3 play under my belt, I knew enough to look at my posts before I posted them.

SB's "I want people to think I'm town" statement just reads to me like a townie who isn't giving alot of thought the consequences of his words - because he doesn't need to.

I accused you of being a potential liability - because I KNOW that you have a bad read here - but you act as if you are completely confident in it.  I'm not scum, and I'd hate to lose on Day 3 because you made a similar read and voted it.

[Captain_Frisk]

However - this is a newb game - and if it takes lynching me to help you see how easy it is to get blinded by this game - like I was when I lynched Galzria on Day 1 in M3 - then it's probably worth it.

[Captain_Frisk]

Hey guys - I know this game is so boring that I needed to go start running my own bastard mod game - but seriously - RobZ would you come in here and make a list?

[Galzria]

Hey guys - I know this game is so boring that I needed to go start running my own bastard mod game - but seriously - RobZ would you come in here and make a list?

Yeah, I want to see the other 4 lists not produced yet.

[Captain_Frisk]

Well - at least I know that RobZ is around and trolling mafia forums.  Tim has been away for a while, and eevee / manda have promised tonight i think.

[timchen]

Ok. My list:

Willing to lynch:
C_F: everything I said before (not too different from what PPS said)
      +Something I didn't say yet
      +pushing us to make a list where he was strongly against in MIV
Robz: policy lynch

OK to lynch:
Eevee: no read so far, probably has not said something strong
YN: reading the game differently from I would, but otherwise neutral

Prefer not to lynch:
S_B: I have a policy myself not to lynch newbie d1, but I do find him scummy
manda: slightly town read
Galz: ok, I won't say obvtwon this time, but I don't form a trap wagon to accuse people following me scummy
PPS: I don't fully agree with his analysis but I think spelling them out in detail and willing to discuss is protown

@frisk: I don't like your tone on the impossibility of finding the scum pair d1. Sure this is unlikely, but the case is not entirely baseless. It would have been better if you could refute the case rather than saying OMG this is ridiculous. This attitude reminds me O's play in M4. And I don't understand why you are berating PPS. He might be wrong sometimes but he is listening.

SB's "I want people to think I'm town" statement just reads to me like a townie who isn't giving alot of thought the consequences of his words - because he doesn't need to.

So basically combining your previous replies you are saying he has made an obviously scummy statement implying he is townie. There is WIFOM, sure, but if this is the case, I don't think you need to jump out and stop him. (Indeed, for me his reply sounds neutral.) But if he is your partner I can see the urgency to point things out before he blunders even more.

I'd also like to remind everyone in case they didn't read M4. frisk warned about the danger of the list there: scum may just pick someone among the ok list of everyone and wagon when the deadline draws near.

[Captain_Frisk]

timchen - my feelings on the list changed when it actually worked and was not executed by scum.

[shark_bait]

Just realized I probably shouldn't post pertinent game stuff outside of this forum.  I apologize.  And here is what I posted in the BMIV thread.

@Robz, I think I have the best chance of reaching you if I post here.  Do you have a list for MVII?  I think CF would at the very least appreciate a "I haven't gathered my thoughts yet but will get it out around (insert time of choice here)" type of post.

[timchen]

@Robz: I don't want to vote you just because of your lurkiness. I may have to if you continue to be on the forum but refuse to post in this game.

[Captain_Frisk]

The only thing that is stopping me is that I felt the same way about popsofctown in MIV.  His behavior was explicitly a pain in the ass.  I was shocked when the mafia killed him and he was town.

[Robz888]

Just realized I probably shouldn't post pertinent game stuff outside of this forum.  I apologize.  And here is what I posted in the BMIV thread.

@Robz, I think I have the best chance of reaching you if I post here.  Do you have a list for MVII?  I think CF would at the very least appreciate a "I haven't gathered my thoughts yet but will get it out around (insert time of choice here)" type of post.

I have given reasons for why I think what i do about people:

What else do you want from me? I voted for PPS. He's behaving more seriously in this game than he did in other, uh, Forum experiences I've had with him.

At this point, Shark_bait is newbie town, I think. Manda has the enthusiasm of a potential mafia, or maybe just somebody really excited about the game. Too early too tell. Eevee and Galzria are same as always. Frisk is an acceptable lynch.

Who am I missing? Oh, no particular reads on Young Nick or Timchen.

But we won't know anything until we just pick somebody to kill. The most important thing--more important than finding a mafia, actually, because we won't find a mafia, if all other games are any lesson--is to not pick a townie with a power role to be lynched.

I am willing to lynch PPS, possibly Frisk. I am next most suspicious of Manda, and I am unwilling to lynch anyone else. I most highly suspect Sharky is town, but please don't put much stock in my opinions at this point.

[Captain_Frisk]

Down to 2!

[Captain_Frisk]

RobZ - will you rank eeVee, Galz, Young Nick, and timchen in order of suspicion?  You're kindof messing up the spreadsheet.

[Robz888]

RobZ - will you rank eeVee, Galz, Young Nick, and timchen in order of suspicion?  You're kindof messing up the spreadsheet.

Fine! The demands of you people. I'm currently trying to conquer Europe.

Suspicious, PPS, Frisk, Manda, Young Nick, Eevee, Galzria, Timchen, Sharky, Not Suspicious