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Author Topic: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall  (Read 30591 times)

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Galzria

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #75 on: May 27, 2012, 08:29:16 pm »

Uh, why?

Because you're too crafty for your own good.
And anybody who can be involved in Mafia-I, Mafia-II, Mafia-III, Resistance, AND Isodom 5 can't be trusted.
 ;)

Makes sense.

In all honesty? I don't know. Just the feeling I got when I read your response. 40% Resistance is still a lot though, and certainly not low enough for me not to bring you in if I feel I need to. I've looked over all the odds, and I can't fathom how else we are supposed to get things in our favor. This may not rely quite as heavily on instinct and feeling as Mafia does to out the opposition, but there still seems to be some level of it here.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

WrathOfGlod

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #76 on: May 27, 2012, 09:33:24 pm »

That's the boat I'm in. However, I hold one piece of information that I can share with all of you if I'm given the chance that will make our odds MUCH better: I am Resistance. If we make it to Assignment Vote 4 (or Mission 1.4 for you technical people), I will be leader. I will vote NO for my own proposal. Now, I fully understand that holding the Vote of No Confidence means that most of you will have to vote Yes for my assignment (and because of that, I will be putting myself in). However, if we get that far, and you vote NO with me and it fails, I would have the opportunity to end the game on the next vote. In my choosing not to do so, the Resistance will KNOW that I should be on every assignment for the rest of the game.

--I doubt this will sway many people to reject my assignment (again, should it get that far). But because that is the best way I could relay my role to you, I present the option to all of you.--

For the time being, I will still be voting "No".  :)

Ha, I thought of that too, but I really don't think it is worth taking the risk.  I mean, if you were a Spy, why wouldn't you offer the same thing and then end the game?  And that would be a really sad first game of Resistance, to end on the first round.

On the other hand, I think it would be hilarious if you were a Spy and pulled this trick off to make it look guaranteed that you were Resistance, only to drag the game on to an inevitable Spy-win. :P

Nonetheless, not worth the risk!

For the record, you are absolutely right. A spy WOULD say the same thing. And I fully noted that I wouldn't expect anybody to actually be swayed by that argument. Still, my point IS true, even if I'll never be given the chance:

That's the boat I'm in. However, I hold one piece of information that I can share with all of you if I'm given the chance that will make our odds MUCH better: I am Resistance.

Honestly, I was just fishing for reactions, and amongst the three that responded right away, I got what I was looking for. I now trust you more than I do TINAS or Robz. If I were to give odds based solely on reactions:

Robz: Spy 60%, Resistance 40%
TINAS: Spy 55%, Resistance 45%
Morgrim: Spy 50%, Resistance 50%
WoG: Spy 50%, Resistance 50%
eHalycon: Spy 40%, Resistance 60%
Galzria: Spy 0%, Resistance 100%

Better position than I felt I was before.
So you think there are 2.55 spies?
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WrathOfGlod

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #77 on: May 27, 2012, 09:37:22 pm »

I voted against the proposal in part to get some more information in the game (we still have 2 votes we can safely reject if need be) and also so that I wouldn't be the last in line for the leadership in the next round (as a resistance member I want to be sure that the third or fourth leadership position isn't a spy)
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eHalcyon

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #78 on: May 27, 2012, 09:37:48 pm »

In all honesty? I don't know. Just the feeling I got when I read your response. 40% Resistance is still a lot though, and certainly not low enough for me not to bring you in if I feel I need to. I've looked over all the odds, and I can't fathom how else we are supposed to get things in our favor. This may not rely quite as heavily on instinct and feeling as Mafia does to out the opposition, but there still seems to be some level of it here.

It's all about the plot cards.  Be careful who you give them to, who you use them on.  Watch who gives the cards to who and try to figure out why they did it.  Is it a Spy helping a Spy?  A Spy framing a RO?  A RO investigating a suspected Spy?  A RO completely at a loss?

There's absolutely instinct, but there's also a great deal of real information available to pick apart.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #79 on: May 27, 2012, 09:46:10 pm »

I'm not particularly inclined to assign percentages to people, but FWIW Galzria's suggestion actually made me slightly less suspicious of him being a Spy, because asking people to fail the fourth mission while he holds No Confidence is such a TERRIBLE move as a Spy.
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WrathOfGlod

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #80 on: May 27, 2012, 09:53:15 pm »

It seems to me we don't really gain much information Round 1 no matter what happens, because the Spies pretty much have to vote to succeed the mission no matter what. So based on that, I would understand approving every mission. But if you really want me to approve it, you have to pick me!

That's the boat I'm in. However, I hold one piece of information that I can share with all of you if I'm given the chance that will make our odds MUCH better: I am Resistance. If we make it to Assignment Vote 4 (or Mission 1.4 for you technical people), I will be leader. I will vote NO for my own proposal. Now, I fully understand that holding the Vote of No Confidence means that most of you will have to vote Yes for my assignment (and because of that, I will be putting myself in). However, if we get that far, and you vote NO with me and it fails, I would have the opportunity to end the game on the next vote. In my choosing not to do so, the Resistance will KNOW that I should be on every assignment for the rest of the game.

--I doubt this will sway many people to reject my assignment (again, should it get that far). But because that is the best way I could relay my role to you, I present the option to all of you.--
For the time being, I will still be voting "No". 

Even if we get to Galzria's leadership we are safe
If he is spy- There are 4 votes to pass mission
If he is resistance-Vote may fail but he won't play no-confidence
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Galzria

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #81 on: May 27, 2012, 10:07:28 pm »

I'm not particularly inclined to assign percentages to people, but FWIW Galzria's suggestion actually made me slightly less suspicious of him being a Spy, because asking people to fail the fourth mission while he holds No Confidence is such a TERRIBLE move as a Spy.

Well (and not to contradict you, as you're right on both counts. I'm resistance, and it would be a TERRIBLE spy move), like I pointed out... I NEVER really bothered to actually TRY and convince anybody. I know that would be futile. But throwing the idea out there was fun anyway.  :P

Oh, and FWIW, I *DID* think about how fun it would be to actually BE a spy, GET you all to vote down assignment proposal #4, and then NOT play it, just to drag out the game with a false-confidence in me.  ;D
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Morgrim7

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #82 on: May 28, 2012, 08:40:13 pm »

No action here lately, whats up everyone? I believe this is our last day to vote?

Edit for typo.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 08:42:15 pm by Morgrim7 »
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"Oh sweet merciful heavens.

I sit here, lost amongst the cloud, that which is the brain of the Morgrim Mod. Perhaps I will learn the inner workings of that storied mind. Perhaps I will simply go mad.

Mad, I tell you.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaad." -Voltgloss
Dominion Notation: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7265.msg206246#msg206246

Galzria

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #83 on: May 28, 2012, 08:46:07 pm »

Not sure. I've cast. Not much more for me to do.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

eHalcyon

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #84 on: May 28, 2012, 09:03:36 pm »

No action here lately, whats up everyone? I believe this is our last day to vote?

Edit for typo.

No editing! :)

I cast yesterday.  I don't think we'll have much real discussion until after the first mission, which means we (likely) have two more votes to go through.  We had some fun banter at the start but now we're just waiting...

Maybe if we were all online simultaneously, we could sweep through these early votes quickly?  Or maybe Tables would prefer to keep the given deadlines.  There was something about doing it to give spies enough time to make non-trivial decisions.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #85 on: May 28, 2012, 09:04:59 pm »

Re-read deadline rules.  That part only applies to voting on mission success/failure.  So if we were all online at once, we could sweep through the votes.
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Tables

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #86 on: May 29, 2012, 11:08:39 am »

Vote 1.2 is in

Mission 1.2:
Team: Morgrim7, Thisisnotasmile,
Yes: Morgrim7,
No: WrathOfGlod, Thisisnotasmile, Galzria, eHalcyon, Robz888,
Result: Yes - 1, No - 5
Proposal Fails

Thisisnotasmile has 5 days to propose a mission
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 11:11:24 am by Tables »
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

Robz888

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #87 on: May 29, 2012, 12:53:49 pm »

TINAS, why did you vote against the mission when you were on the mission?
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Galzria

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #88 on: May 29, 2012, 12:55:42 pm »

Because he's TINAS!  ;)

Probably because he knew he was in control on vote #3, and wanted that more than being included by someone else. Plus, the further he can get the leadership to move during Mission 1, the sooner it'll get back to him in later missions when it could matter.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #89 on: May 29, 2012, 02:23:50 pm »

Because Morgrim did something earlier that made me think he was a Spy. I think. Will check and propose a mission later.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #90 on: May 29, 2012, 02:24:33 pm »

OR at least he made me think he was more Spy than standard odds. I certainly have no reason to believe anyone is a Spy with any confidence yet.
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Galzria

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #91 on: May 29, 2012, 02:25:06 pm »

Because Morgrim did something earlier that made me think he was a Spy. I think. Will check and propose a mission later.

Ooh, now you've piqued my curiosity!
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #92 on: May 29, 2012, 02:26:41 pm »

Okay I checked just for you. It's because he voted yes for the first mission that he was not on. Still not proposing my mission yet though. Anyone want to convince me to choose them to go with me?
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Galzria

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #93 on: May 29, 2012, 02:38:52 pm »

Interesting. If I went with you now, I could start Mission 2 as leader.

Hmm... If you want success, I'm a good choice, but I can't prove that to you now. Still, I think I would prefer to pick the two operatives. So I'm likely to vote "no" regardless, since I don't think you would be MY first choice at the moment. So I would rather have leadership.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

eHalcyon

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #94 on: May 29, 2012, 03:05:43 pm »

Okay I checked just for you. It's because he voted yes for the first mission that he was not on. Still not proposing my mission yet though. Anyone want to convince me to choose them to go with me?

As a group we're likely to vote it down anyways, so it's not a big deal. :P  Might as well propose anyone so we can move onward.

I'd try to convince you to take me, but I'm really not sure how.  And if you're suspicious of Morgrim because he voted yes, you should have the same suspicion for both me and WoG since we were the team that was proposed.

My suspicions are similar.  Morgrim because he voted yes when he wasn't on the team.  WoG because he was on that team.  Robz because of his comment that he was voting no on the first team because it was "the popular thing to do".  Galzria because of his "let's vote down mission 4 while I have no confidence".

TINAS, you're the only one I think who hasn't done anything suspicious... and maybe that's suspicious in itself. ;)

But everything is easily explained away.  Galzria didn't actually try to convince people that they should vote that way -- he just said that if it happened, he would be proven Resistance afterwards.  Robz' comment is actually fairly innocuous.  Morgrim might just want to move things forward, and if that's the case there is no reason to suspect WoG either.
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WrathOfGlod

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #95 on: May 29, 2012, 05:51:07 pm »

I voted down the mission because the resistance wants as much info as possible while staying safe. Because the dangers of a spy leading the first mission are low I plan to vote against ThisIsNotASmile's mission and then vote for Galzria's (obviously)
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Morgrim7

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #96 on: May 29, 2012, 06:11:29 pm »

Okay I checked just for you. It's because he voted yes for the first mission that he was not on. Still not proposing my mission yet though. Anyone want to convince me to choose them to go with me?
How do you think missions will be approved if we only approve missions we are on? We will have to approve one someday, and if it fails, we will learn something. If it suceeds, we know that those two are not spies, and we have one mission under your belt.
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"Oh sweet merciful heavens.

I sit here, lost amongst the cloud, that which is the brain of the Morgrim Mod. Perhaps I will learn the inner workings of that storied mind. Perhaps I will simply go mad.

Mad, I tell you.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaad." -Voltgloss
Dominion Notation: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7265.msg206246#msg206246

WrathOfGlod

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #97 on: May 29, 2012, 06:21:06 pm »

Okay I checked just for you. It's because he voted yes for the first mission that he was not on. Still not proposing my mission yet though. Anyone want to convince me to choose them to go with me?
How do you think missions will be approved if we only approve missions we are on? We will have to approve one someday, and if it fails, we will learn something. If it suceeds, we know that those two are not spies, and we have one mission under your belt.
No we don't know that they aren't spies
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Morgrim7

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #98 on: May 29, 2012, 06:25:57 pm »

Okay I checked just for you. It's because he voted yes for the first mission that he was not on. Still not proposing my mission yet though. Anyone want to convince me to choose them to go with me?
How do you think missions will be approved if we only approve missions we are on? We will have to approve one someday, and if it fails, we will learn something. If it suceeds, we know that those two are not spies, and we have one mission under your belt.
No we don't know that they aren't spies
Very true. They could vote for the mission to fool people...
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"Oh sweet merciful heavens.

I sit here, lost amongst the cloud, that which is the brain of the Morgrim Mod. Perhaps I will learn the inner workings of that storied mind. Perhaps I will simply go mad.

Mad, I tell you.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaad." -Voltgloss
Dominion Notation: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7265.msg206246#msg206246

eHalcyon

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Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« Reply #99 on: May 29, 2012, 06:39:11 pm »

Okay I checked just for you. It's because he voted yes for the first mission that he was not on. Still not proposing my mission yet though. Anyone want to convince me to choose them to go with me?
How do you think missions will be approved if we only approve missions we are on? We will have to approve one someday, and if it fails, we will learn something. If it suceeds, we know that those two are not spies, and we have one mission under your belt.

Remember that the Resistance loses if it rejects 5 proposals in a row, so we will approve a mission eventually.

In general we wait until we must approve, which normally means the fifth proposal.  But taking into account active plot cards, we'll be approving the 4th one, Galzria's mission, whomever he chooses.
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