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[brokoli]

Overrated :

1 - Swindler : Too swingy, and really, giving a curse at the beginning of the game is not that powerful.
2 - Ambassador : Masquerade is clearly superior IMO.
3 - Alchemist
4 - Chapel : There is a "religion" for this card... which is not THAT good
5 - Minion

Watchtower, Contraband, Nobles, Jack, Moneylender... and Gold

Underrated :

1 - DUKE !!!! The big one. People don't realize how good this card is in most BM games.
2 - Fortune teller : Those who think the attack helps more than it hurts are really wrong.
3 - Coppersmith
4 - Outpost
5 - Cache

Inn, Island, Young Witch, Duchess, Feast...

[HiveMindEmulator]

^How can Contraband be overrated? Don't most people just ignore it?

[shark_bait]

2 - Ambassador : Masquerade is clearly superior IMO.

I wouldn't quite agree with that.  Clearly superior suggest that in all cases masquerade is better.  Sure masquerade is better on some boards (looking at you non-engine BM games), but with any sort of engine, I would much rather have ambassador.

[O]

and really, giving a curse at the beginning of the game is not that powerful.

Wat.

[brokoli]

^How can Contraband be overrated? Don't most people just ignore it?

True, for experienced players.
But Contraband is probably the biggest trap for most of the beginners I saw.

[DG]

Fishing village seems to be an overrated card. Players find it difficult to spot when silver is simply better.
Village also seems to be an underrated card. Players find it difficult to spot when silver is simply worse.

[dondon151]

giving a curse at the beginning of the game is not that powerful.

I'd hazard to say that depending on the context, replacing a Copper with a Curse may even be worse than outright giving a Curse because it hurts earlygame spending power more.

[popsofctown]

Fishing village seems to be an overrated card. Players find it difficult to spot when silver is simply better.
Village also seems to be an underrated card. Players find it difficult to spot when silver is simply worse.

Do you think Village is ever a justifiable opening?  I think it is in a notrash with Goons, Smithy, and Market.

[Robz888]

Fishing village seems to be an overrated card. Players find it difficult to spot when silver is simply better.
Village also seems to be an underrated card. Players find it difficult to spot when silver is simply worse.

Do you think Village is ever a justifiable opening?  I think it is in a notrash with Goons, Smithy, and Market.

Maybe it's the Bane card, and you open with it? And you plan to set up some great engine?

[greatexpectations]

Do you think Village is ever a justifiable opening?

maybe in multiplayer if you are seeking a big action engine.

[HiveMindEmulator]

Do you think Village is ever a justifiable opening?  I think it is in a notrash with Goons, Smithy, and Market.

It is in a situation where you just don't need Silver at all. The most common example is in the "first game" set, if you're going for a Village/Smithy engine. You can open Remodel/Village, since you don't need to hit $5 until much later.

[RisingJaguar]

Do you think Village is ever a justifiable opening?  I think it is in a notrash with Goons, Smithy, and Market.

It is in a situation where you just don't need Silver at all. The most common example is in the "first game" set, if you're going for a Village/Smithy engine. You can open Remodel/Village, since you don't need to hit $5 until much later.

To add-on to the "engines that need NO silvers", engines that get their money from a different source and is getting money right away is not important.  Ie. engines built off coppersmith would probably work and there is nothing else at $3. 

This should not happen all that often aside from the bane example. 

[cherdano]

Village is a pretty reasonable opening if you plan to pick up ambassadors at turn 2 and 3 - I never know whether it's superior to opening double ambassador and picking up a village at turn 3 or 4.

[Robz888]

Village is a pretty reasonable opening if you plan to pick up ambassadors at turn 2 and 3 - I never know whether it's superior to opening double ambassador and picking up a village at turn 3 or 4.

I think usually you want both Ambassadors first.

[Wingnut]

Overrated :
1 - Swindler : Too swingy, and really, giving a curse at the beginning of the game is not that powerful.

I know I was the first to say Swindler is overrated, but the curse giving power is a big part of why it is powerful. It's the endgame where the swinginess of this card is really bad and makes it overrated. I find myself not playing Swindler unless I need to cash quite often once the greening stage begins.

[blueblimp]

The trouble with opening Village is that you can only pair it with a single terminal, so on T3/T4, it's just a do-nothing cantrip. So why not buy that Village on T3 or T4 instead? You'd need to have some reason that you don't want any other $3 card (including Silver).

[O]

Overrated :
1 - Swindler : Too swingy, and really, giving a curse at the beginning of the game is not that powerful.

I know I was the first to say Swindler is overrated, but the curse giving power is a big part of why it is powerful. It's the endgame where the swinginess of this card is really bad and makes it overrated. I find myself not playing Swindler unless I need to cash quite often once the greening stage begins.

For context, you gain it 98.2% of the time, while I gain it 78.7%. Maybe *you* overrate it? 

[ehunt]

Let's compare swindler and cutpurse. Cutpurse isn't a power four, but it's definitely right to open cutpurse on a good percentage of boards. If you swindle a copper to a curse, you've perma-cutpursed that copper. Also, swindler is a dollar cheaper, so you can open swindler/swindler. Also, a swindler that turns an early five into a duchy is an automatic win for reasonable odds. I'll spot that masquerade and ambassador are better than swindler, and maybe (maybe) I'll give you the fishing village, but menagerie - and I love that card more than I have ever loved another human being - menagerie is just a cruel late-game loan in the eyes of the swindler.

[Wingnut]

Overrated :
1 - Swindler : Too swingy, and really, giving a curse at the beginning of the game is not that powerful.

I know I was the first to say Swindler is overrated, but the curse giving power is a big part of why it is powerful. It's the endgame where the swinginess of this card is really bad and makes it overrated. I find myself not playing Swindler unless I need to cash quite often once the greening stage begins.

For context, you gain it 98.2% of the time, while I gain it 78.7%. Maybe *you* overrate it? 

Or it means I have a very good understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of the card. I have wanted to get away from it of late, but there have been no boards with Swindler that have another good option on it lately.

Still, I probably overrate it even more than the community does.

[O]

Or it means I have a very good understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of the card. I have wanted to get away from it of late, but there have been no boards with Swindler that have another good option on it lately.

Still, I probably overrate it even more than the community does.

You have a negative effect with. You also have a ridiculous effect without, because the three times or so you've ignored it you've won.

[ehunt]

Looking at Qvist's rankings, I see Oracle is crazy low on the 3s. I think it's at least as good as Smithy in a BM deck and isn't bad in an engine deck either. It certainly puts spy to shame.

[qmech]

Yes, Oracle is brilliant.

This thread is interesting because where most people are fairly well calibrated it's 50-50 whether you view a card as under- or overrated.  Alchemist and Lab are a couple of examples where we have people taking both sides.

I'll add my voice to the chorus saying Ambassador is overrated.

[chwhite]

So this is definitely bizzaro day for me, because in the span of 24 hours I've not only ignored Ambassador on a board without Gardens/Silk Road (there was JoaT, Embassy, and no Villages, even I had to admit the Amb wasn't worth it), but even more shockingly I bought Thief on purpose.  Colony game, we were both running heavily trimmed Bishop decks that weren't quite Golden; my opponent had more Platinums and I had more of an engine with Monument and Worker's Village and Menagerie.  I don't know if it was actually necessary, but for once it was not obviously wrong!

I'm sure I overrate Ambassador a little bit.  I do think that, as a general rule, you're better off overrating it than underrating it, but yeah it's not thaaat overpowering when Villages are absent, I guess.