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Author Topic: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E  (Read 2564 times)

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Donald X.

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Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« on: February 11, 2024, 02:23:28 pm »
+20

Cornucopia & Guilds second edition is coming! It's the original two small expansions in one box, with replaced cards like the other second editions. We expect the physical version in mid-March. You will be able to get just the new cards as a 100-card update pack. We expect previews online, possibly from March 11-13. After that we expect the new expansion Rising Sun in April or May; the art for it is still not all in.
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dz

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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2024, 02:28:05 pm »
+11

Hi everyone. I was a playtester for Guilds/Cornucopia 2E, and I’m going to interview myself about it.

“How do you feel about Guilds/Cornucopia getting a 2E?"
I've endlessly analyzed and reconsidered Guilds/Cornucopia over the years, and I think they’re pretty bad. You can say “you only think that because everything else in Dominion has gotten better” but no I never cared for those expansions. And combining them into one box doesn’t solve any of their main problems: that they contain a bunch of duds and some of the most frustrating cards in the game. So it’s great that Donald X. wanted to update it.

"Are those 2 sets permanently glued together now?"
They have been for a while! If a foreign publisher or online implementation still wants to sell them separately, you should ask them: when has a small Dominion expansion ever sold better than a large one? If they want to sell products, well I don’t see it.

"Why was there a gap between this and the other 2E’s?"
Unlike new expansions, 2E's and card errata heavily depend on when sets get reprinted, and this was the next time Guilds/Cornucopia got a reprint.
But also, Donald X. wanted to work on other games! While playtesting for Guilds/Cornucopia 2E, I was also playtesting Moon Colony Bloodbath (one of Donald X.’s upcoming games), and it’s definitely my 2nd favorite board game of all time. Whenever it comes out, go and buy it pls.

“I can’t even think of that many cards that deserve to get removed."
I saw people/playtesters saying this for previous 2E’s, and my (most polite) response is: huh??? All the removed cards deserved to die, I don’t miss them at all. But also, those 2E’s could’ve (and should’ve) replaced more cards (and Guilds/Cornucopia is included in that statement).

“How much impact did you have on this 2E?”
I don’t know when this 2E started, but I can tell you that Donald X. invited me in March 2023, and the last change was in May 2023. Since I was only there for the last couple months, there are several cards (removed and new) that I had no voice in. But there were many changes in those last couple months, so yes I did impact this 2E.

“What about Rising Sun?”
I was there for Rising Sun since the very beginning. And I know it’s dangerous to say things like “Rising Sun is my favorite expansion” because people will respond with “you only like it because it’s the newest one” or “you only like it because you playtested it” or “if you like it that means it’s going to be hell” but Rising Sun is my favorite expansion.

“Will you answer rules questions about the new cards?”
Sure thing. You’ll have to discover those rules questions by yourself though.
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2024, 04:43:40 pm »
+1

Sounds dope! Is this going to be yet another 9 cards replacement?

Anyway: can't wait to see Harvest being finally put out of its misery! And Fortune Teller joining the afterlife with Woodcutter and Chancellor!
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Hks

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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2024, 05:04:41 pm »
0

New cards is always very exciting! We kind of knew this was coming, I guess, from what DXV has told, but I don't want to take anything for granted! The 2. editions usually either carry forth the ideas from the removed cards in a better package, or tosses them out for something better, so you'll probably understand that I've enjoyed the 2. editions so far.

In Hinterlands 9 cards got swapped out. The wiki says the update pack is 100 cards, but that might include the bane card, so 9 might still be accurate. Dunno where the wiki has that info from?

Guessing which cards that'll be removed is pretty exciting imo, so this is my take on it currently. I'm guessing 5 gets cut from Cornucopia:
  • Fortune Teller, to fit something stronger/more interesting
  • Farming Village, to fit something stronger (that doesn't skip night cards?)
  • Tournament, to fit something less of a polarizing that still gives prizes
  • Harvest
  • Fairgrounds, to spice it up like Silk Road got with Marchland
4 from Guilds:
  • Candlestick Maker, to fit something more interesting
  • Masterpiece, as the concept's aldready been redone with Delve in Empires
  • Herald, to remove the mandatory playing of Actions, maybe refine it at the same time
  • Taxman, to fit something with more immediate strength
If the Prizes gets updated too I would be ecstatic! I'm all for cards that makes decisions tougher, and some prizes definitely gets more often picked than others.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2024, 05:08:23 pm by Hks »
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2024, 05:42:14 pm »
+2

New cards is always very exciting! We kind of knew this was coming, I guess, from what DXV has told, but I don't want to take anything for granted! The 2. editions usually either carry forth the ideas from the removed cards in a better package, or tosses them out for something better, so you'll probably understand that I've enjoyed the 2. editions so far.

In Hinterlands 9 cards got swapped out. The wiki says the update pack is 100 cards, but that might include the bane card, so 9 might still be accurate. Dunno where the wiki has that info from?

Guessing which cards that'll be removed is pretty exciting imo, so this is my take on it currently. I'm guessing 5 gets cut from Cornucopia:
  • Fortune Teller, to fit something stronger/more interesting
  • Farming Village, to fit something stronger (that doesn't skip night cards?)
  • Tournament, to fit something less of a polarizing that still gives prizes
  • Harvest
  • Fairgrounds, to spice it up like Silk Road got with Marchland
4 from Guilds:
  • Candlestick Maker, to fit something more interesting
  • Masterpiece, as the concept's aldready been redone with Delve in Empires
  • Herald, to remove the mandatory playing of Actions, maybe refine it at the same time
  • Taxman, to fit something with more immediate strength
If the Prizes gets updated too I would be ecstatic! I'm all for cards that makes decisions tougher, and some prizes definitely gets more often picked than others.

I was on the verge of making a list as well. I agree with most you said, but I think Horse Traders and Doctor are definitely on the chopping block. And I don't see Herald leaving, and Farming Village and Fairgrounds are a bit of as stretch as well. But I've also got the feeling they'll pull an Embassy somewhere... (and honestly, I kinda feel like Journeyman could be axed; it just lacks an identity unlike most smithy variants).
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2024, 06:49:41 pm »
+1

I would axe:
Fortune Teller (digging mechanic that's often a card by card Chancellor for your opponents + irritating+ weak)
Harvest (weak)
Tournament (Swingy)
Hunting Party (annoying IRL + too strong)
Young Witch (Early game cursers aren't fun)
Masterpiece (Done better by Events, waste of a kingdom slot)
Doctor (too unreliable and swingy)
Taxman (Not very strong and slows down early game)

5 prizes and 7 Guilds blanks together open up another card slot.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2024, 06:50:46 pm by NoMoreFun »
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AJD

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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2024, 07:22:30 pm »
+4

Are the new cards going to be labeled as some Guilds cards and some Cornucopia cards, or since the two expansions are sold as one now are they just going to be a bunch of Guilds & Cornucopia cards?
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Donald X.

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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2024, 08:50:46 pm »
+10

Are the new cards going to be labeled as some Guilds cards and some Cornucopia cards, or since the two expansions are sold as one now are they just going to be a bunch of Guilds & Cornucopia cards?
You have somehow found a question I'm willing to answer.

All cards in the set will have the same expansion icon. While foreign publishers may continue to publish the originals separately (or in the foreign product that has Cornucopia and Alchemy together), in English they are now one expansion, that happens to be called Cornucopia & Guilds.

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Ethan

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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2024, 10:48:54 pm »
0

Will there be new cards using mechanics from both expansions?

How will the online/TGG version deal with the new edition? Would Cornucopia & Guilds then be sold together? For those who owned Cornucopia online, if I recall correctly, they would get access to 2nd ed cards, but not 1st ed cards until they buy the 1st ed pack?
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faust

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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2024, 03:30:20 am »
+3

My guesses for removed cards, in order of confidence:

1. Harvest. Of course.
2. Masterpiece, it's just too niche.
3. Taxman -  again quite weak, and when it's good it can quite annoying.
4. Tournament. It's widely misliked, though I'm 50/50 on whether Prizes will stay.
5. Fortune Teller, another weak and not so interesting attack.
6. Stonemason. This is now getting into more speculative territory, but I think the overwhelming 3-piling threat of this card is too much.
7. Horse Traders. You get this card for the buy, but man it does not usually feel good. Noone will be sad to see this go.
8. Soothsayer, it is the Curser that leads to the most boring games. It is also weirdly off-theme for the expansion.
9. Remake. If you're gonna remake the expansion, may as well remake Remake, which is just too strong.
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2024, 01:02:47 pm »
0

Now I wanna chime in as well. My guesses, from most likely to least likely.

1. Harvest
2. Fortune Teller
3. Masterpiece
4. Taxman
5. Horse Traders: Terminal money isn't very hot, and the discard 2 cards effect just neuters it too much. The Reaction part is interesting, but wasted on this card.
6. Doctor: This card is clunky and super luck based. Sentinel is everything this wants to be. The overpay effect is kinda cool (it really was before Donate existed), but, again, wasted on this card.
7. Fairgrounds: This is just really dull, basically just a souped up Duchy in most games. The increments are just too poorly done to the point that there is almost never much you can do to make it worth more than your opponent's. I think the cardinal rule for alt VP card design is to always make the increment 1VP.
8. Young Witch: This card is pretty overbalanced to the point that it's pretty much never worth buying unless the board is weak, in which case this card will suffocate the game. It is slightly more tame in this regard than Sea Hag, but not by much.
9. Jester: This is just super luck based and generally really bad.

Of course, many people included Tournament which I can totally get behind. However, I personally think that it makes more sense to just introduce more cards that use the Price mechanic. Though the Prices themselves weren't that well designed either...
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CaptainTheo

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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2024, 05:28:39 pm »
+4

I hope that Jester and Tournament don't get removed. They're two of my favourite cards. (I prefer games with more than two players, in which Jester is stronger and more interesting.)

This applies to a lesser extent to Young Witch, as I find its Bane mechanic really interesting, and Fairgrounds, which fits well with the Cornucopia theme. I rather like the reaction component of Horse Traders even if it isn't a very strong card. And I like Remake even though it's overly powerful. Overall I'm pretty high on Cornucopia.

The obvious cuts would be Harvest (too weak) and Fortune Teller (too tedious, and also weak). Also probably Masterpiece.
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Doom_Shark

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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2024, 06:35:55 pm »
+3

With it coming so close to Rising Sun, I wonder: will the 2nd edition rulebook include recommended sets of 10 for Mixed Box and Rising Sun for us to speculate about?
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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2024, 01:34:01 am »
0

I really hope we've seen the last of Doctor. And when 3e comes around maybe Sentry will go away as well. My two least favorite cards.

I'm pretty sure Tournament is getting removed, which, wow. End of an era there.

This probably also implies that Dark Ages 2e is coming at some point.

Willvon

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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2024, 04:00:32 pm »
+1

You have somehow found a question I'm willing to answer.

All cards in the set will have the same expansion icon. While foreign publishers may continue to publish the originals separately (or in the foreign product that has Cornucopia and Alchemy together), in English they are now one expansion, that happens to be called Cornucopia & Guilds.

I was looking on BGG to see if this updated version was mentioned yet there. According to BGG, the old combo of Cornucopia and Guilds was called Dominion: Guilds & Cornucopia.  So in light of what you said above, will the new one be Dominion: Cornucopia & Guilds (2E)?   
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Karpeth

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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2024, 07:45:20 am »
+1

Assuming that young witch is not one of the removed cards, will we get a bane card in the update box?

Since I always buy first print of dominion, this is the only bane of my existance - the lack of a bane card.

There should be a place for it, since 9 cards and 1 randomizer leaves place for 1 blank.
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Donald X.

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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2024, 01:13:25 pm »
+3

I was looking on BGG to see if this updated version was mentioned yet there. According to BGG, the old combo of Cornucopia and Guilds was called Dominion: Guilds & Cornucopia.  So in light of what you said above, will the new one be Dominion: Cornucopia & Guilds (2E)?
This product is called Dominion: Cornucopia & Guilds.

The old box said "Guilds & Cornucopia" on the cover, and "Mixed Box" on the side. This one says "Cornucopia & Guilds" or "Cornucopia Guilds" everywhere.
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Willvon

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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2024, 01:38:03 pm »
+2

If the total number of cards in the update pack is exactly 100, wouldn’t that say that Fairgrounds is not one of the ones replaced? At the minimum that would make the number of cards be 101 with the randomizers.

Personally, I get a kick out of trying to make Fairgrounds work for me. Of course, my wife and I usually play with Colonies in every game. Unless it’s a slog, in a game with only Provinces, there’s not enough time to get Fairgrounds to be worth much. In a Colony game, though, I’ve gotten them up to 8 points and even 10 points each depending on what’s in the kingdom.
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Alekseyev

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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2024, 03:29:17 pm »
+1

Wow, I bought Cornocupia just shy of a week ago! (Used, for a couple €) Guess that was some lucky timing to make sure I can still get my hands at any possible soon-to-be-rare 1E cards. :D

Hoping that if there's going to be an update pack, the German edition will have an update package like Seaside and Prosperity did... unlike Hinterlands that didn't.  :'(
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Willvon

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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2024, 07:32:33 pm »
+1

Wow, I bought Cornocupia just shy of a week ago! (Used, for a couple €) Guess that was some lucky timing to make sure I can still get my hands at any possible soon-to-be-rare 1E cards. :D

Hoping that if there's going to be an update pack, the German edition will have an update package like Seaside and Prosperity did... unlike Hinterlands that didn't.  :'(

I’m sorry to hear there was never a German update pack to Hinterlands. The Hinterlands 2e cards really improved that expansion.

As far as Cornucopia is concerned, for me it is in my top five favorite expansions. For a small expansion, it packs a punch. I know that Harvest and Fortune Teller are duds, but Hamlet is a fantastic 2, Menagerie is a great 3, and Remake and Tournament are both consistently rated among the top 4’s. I also love Hunting Party and Horn of Plenty. And for me, Fairgrounds is my favorite alt-victory card.
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Nukatha

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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2024, 09:46:18 pm »
0

ll place my bets now:
Cornucopia:
Horse Traders, Remake, Fortune Teller
Guilds:
Taxman, Journeyman, and maybe Soothsayer? (Given Charlatan and Bandit, even though Soothsayer remains unique).
Donald wouldn't break up the Butcher, Baker and Candlestick Maker, would he?

When it gets down to it, all I want is a cheese-related card.
Assuming that young witch is not one of the removed cards, will we get a bane card in the update box?

Since I always buy first print of dominion, this is the only bane of my existance - the lack of a bane card.

There should be a place for it, since 9 cards and 1 randomizer leaves place for 1 blank.
I also have 1st Edition Guilds/Cornucopia boxes. The Bane card would be nice for an update pack, as would a pair of inserts for the smaller boxes.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2024, 10:04:33 pm by Nukatha »
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Ethan

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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2024, 08:51:04 pm »
0

Would they get new cover art? Combined or separated?
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Vengil

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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2024, 05:05:54 pm »
0

I bet on:
1) Harvest.
2) Fortune Teller.
3) Fairgrounds.
4) Young witch.

5) Masterpiece.
6) Journeyman.
7) Stonemason.
8 ) Taxman.
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Nukatha

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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2024, 10:24:07 am »
0

8 new kingdom cards (80+8 randomizers, since none are Victory cards), plus 2x of each new Reward (12 total) for an exactly 100 card update pack.

That means no 'Bane' card.
I'd still like to know what the 'box inlay' situation will be.
Ideally, two separate inlays would be nice, one each to accommodate the early separate prints, with one being double-sided to be used for either the big box or one small box.
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Donald X.

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Re: Cornucopia & Guilds 2E
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2024, 12:56:37 pm »
+1

8 new kingdom cards (80+8 randomizers, since none are Victory cards), plus 2x of each new Reward (12 total) for an exactly 100 card update pack.

That means no 'Bane' card.
I'd still like to know what the 'box inlay' situation will be.
Ideally, two separate inlays would be nice, one each to accommodate the early separate prints, with one being double-sided to be used for either the big box or one small box.
There is no Bane card in this edition - not in the upgrade pack, not in the large box. There wasn't even one card slot available for it.

The inlay mixes both sets.
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