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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #200: Do What You Love  (Read 1465 times)

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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #200: Do What You Love
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2023, 04:37:18 pm »
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Ok, judging will commence, but will probably at least take another 24 hours. You can still sneak entries in until then if you want.

LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #200: Do What You Love
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2023, 10:09:54 pm »
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I like weird stuff, like cards that play other cards, and cards that don't do the same thing every time you play them. So, a Band of Misfits variant:
(I think I submitted an older version of this card to a previous contest some time ago.)

Quote
Doppleganger
$4 - Action - Command
Turn your Journey token over. If it's face-up, play any Action card in the supply, leaving it there. Otherwise, play the True Form card, leaving it there. If the card you played cost $5 or more, take <1> debt.
-
Add an unused non-Command Action card costing $3 or $4 to the game to be the True Form card.

FAQ: The True Form card is not in the supply.
Another version of this card allowed the True Form card to cost anything $3 and up, so if the True form card cost $5 or more, you'd take debt when the journey token was face down. I never actually tested it with a $5 True card, but it seems like it might be too strong even with the debt if it was a strong $5.
You sure that you want this to be able to play Command cards?
No. fixed.

segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #200: Do What You Love
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2023, 02:28:13 am »
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Artist Village | Action | $3
+$2
When you play a card you have no copies of in play, +1 villager.
Ignore any + Actions you get from cards this turn


I really like the idea, but that it triggers off Treasures seems to make it too easy to get lots of Villagers. On the other hand, if it only triggered off Action cards, it would be useless without a source of +2 Actions, so that would not be a good solution.

Thanks for your feedback! The treasure villagers was intentional. I am thinking that if it’s the only “village” in the game, you need something to kickstart villagers (since the card is itself terminal), allowing coppers to give you villagers turns it your version of the card (trigger on actions only) with a delayed + villager which helps it be a village the third time you play it. The eventual villager flooding is intentional to allow you to play multiple copies of the same action card some turns.

Of course, I’d need to do extensive play testing to determine if this works.

Also this card does boost silver, which is another thing I like (cards that boost silver)
You don’t need playtesting to see that this is cheaper yet far better than Conclave. You just play it before you play your stop cards and get around 2-4 Villagers every turn.
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #200: Do What You Love
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2023, 08:18:07 am »
+2

Judgment





1. Planner by Augie279



This card is a Remodel OR moat OR workshop +1card, and if you have no actions, you get to do two of them.

The in-built weakness I immediately notice is that the workshop effect is the strongest one of these, and that's the one that you can't take full advantage of if you choose two modes because you then have no actions left and can't play the card -- that is, unless it's a treasure.

As a baseline, you can play BM + Planner and either use it as remodel estate + gain silver (early), +2 cards and gain silver (middle), and occasionally remodel gold or province & silver or cards (late). This is a very powerful package; all of these modes are strong, and the flexibility makes it stronger. Should be one of the best BM+X cards out there.

In an engine it's harder to use. But you can do remodel + gain an engine piece, which is quite good, or just gain an engine piece to your hand if you have actions left, which is also quite good. (And of course, if you have villagers, you can bypass the weakness and do +2 cards + gain an engine piece to your hand + play it immediately.)

Overall, what concerns me is that the card has so much flexibility that it may just be too automatic of a purchase. Specifically the floor is very high; there's almost no scenario in which this won't be good if you play it. But otherwise, it's a neat dynamic.



2. Cadastrate by X-tra



This is a conditional Peddler that wants you to maximize the chance that you'll have a copy of the top card of your deck in play. Since it's easiest to get Actions in play, this mostly encourages engines, specifically engines with low variety.

... and that might be a problem because this isn't necessarily a type of deck that needs to be buffed.

The card looks super elegant on first glance, but I'm not sure if it will play that well. Although one thing to point out is that it's (slightly) self-synergizing, so each one gets a little better if you already have a bunch. It also gets more interesting if you can play non-Actions in your Action phase, so there's various synergies with storyteller, black market, inheritance, etc.

I think those interactions are neat, but in general, I remain skeptical that it would play super well. I suspect you wouldn't change your deck building plans most of the time, and if you do, it wouldn't be in a greater direction (fewer unique pieces)



3. Herder by NoMoreFun

Quote
Herder
Action - $3
+1 Buy
+$2

Gain a Horse to the bottom of your deck. Each other player may gain a Horse.

The "may" is weird. If the effect is positive 90%+ of the time, I think it should just be mandatory.

Putting that aside, I like the idea quite a lot. Everyone gets the same raw benefit, but yours comes all at once, which is definitely preferable in many cases. Although I do worry that you can't really use it because the top half is just a woodcutter. I get that it's about the bottom effect, but the bottom effect is most interesting if you play it a bunch of times, and you probably don't want to play too many woodcutters. It may have worked better if the card was more spammable?



4. Royal Library by majiponi

Quote
cost $4 - Action
+1 Action
Reveal your hand while resolving this.
Discard all Treasure cards.
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand, skipping any Treasure cards; set those aside, discarding them afterwards.

So, this touches on the fact that regular Library is arguably a misdesigned card since you get to set Action cards aside, but actually Action cards are the ones you want! Later, we figured out that the effect is, in fact, strong, but mostly because you can draw good action cards over bad ones, not because you can draw Treasures over Actions.

So this card is sort of a fix, where you can (and actually must) discard Treasures instead. My problem with this is that, well, it seems busted to me. If you just trash your starting estates, this card becomes "discard all bad cards in your hand, then draw only good cards until you have six". This is an extremely powerful effect in engines, especially on cards that cost only 4$.

... and all the above would be valid commentary if it didn't have +1 Action. The fact that it's also nonterminal just makes it crazy! I get that you can't use it early, but once you have 4-5 other Action  cards in your deck, this is just bonkers strong.

I think the powerlevel barrs it from being a Finalist, at least considering that it also doesn't introduce strategy on-play.



5. Warlock by Kru5h



Ok, so the problem with this one is what faust said. The card presents your opponent with a choice for you of A (discarding) or B (gaining a curse), where the badness of B is fixed and you can tweak the badness of A. But this means that if you reveal cards, then...

... either B is still worse than A, in which case your opponent will choose B (the curse), so revealing cards was a (slight) mistake; the only effect was to reveal information.
... or A is now worse than B, in which case your opponent will choose A, a worse outcome for you, so revealing cards was a mistake.

So in both cases, you would have done better not revealing anything.

Of course, this only holds under the assumption of optimal play from both sides. If both players don't think about it too hard, it could be fine -- perhaps you reveal two cards, and getting the curse is actually still worse for you, but your opponent misevalues the situation and makes you discard instead.

However, my own view is that mechanics that stop working if people play well are not good design. Ideally a mechanic should make sense on all skill levels, but it should always make sense on high levels. official cards tend to follow this principle; I can't think of a choice where one option is never correct.

Now if it weren't for this problem, I'd like the card quite a lot. I think conditional junking is underexplored, and it's a pretty sleak design. But the problem does exist, and it barrs it from being a finalist.



6. Steelworks by Snorka



So this is a workshop with upside on the top, followed by a Bridge that also works for your opponents.

This is a tricky one to assess. One way you could try to carve it out is that the cost reduction applies for 2 of your turns and 1 turn of your opponent, so perhaps it's about as good as one turn for you, in which case it would be Inventor with upside. Now inventor costs 4$, but the upside (especially the Villager) is pretty substantial. So the powerlevevel may be about right.

Now of course, 2 turns for you and 1 for opponents isn't the same as 1 for you, and it's also a Duration, making it easier to chain. In terms of cost reduction. And harder in terms of gaining.

And we haven't even talked about interaction with your opponent yet! If I have a Steelworks, your Steelworks gets way better because you can get a 5$ immediately. But if you do play it, my Steelworks gets super way better because now I can get a $6. So there's a snow ball effect here, although it doesn't get too insane because it doesn't give +buy, so at best you get one Province per Steelworks.

It is very complex as you said, but I like it! This isn't a card I expected to be high on initially, but it gets better the more I think about it.

My biggest complaint is that some of the complexity seems to not really contribute to the core dynamic. E.g., the VP token and coin token don't really seem to change the design. So it doesn't feel super cohesive. But then again, I don't know what they should be instead (and of course, the "getting a benefit based on the card type" thing is a common theme). In any case, Finalist.



7. Exotic Market by Gubump



So, here we have a (Great) Market variant. One of the first things this made me think about is that City Quarter and Royal Blacksmith (that both cost 8 debt) are both cards that aren't good without support. That's probably not a coincidence; we probably don't want people to buy them on the first turn. This card continues that trend by requiring you to have a bunch of unique Action cards first. So plus points there.

The second part is that this seems very strong. I don't think getting it to produce +3$ is that difficult, and it's arguably cheaper than Grand Market... although you can't gain it via remodeling. However, I don't think high powerlevel is an issue because even if you definitely get this, it still leaves you with plenty of decisions about how to build your deck. And also when to get it. This seems like an example of a strong powerlevel done right.

And putting those specific points aside, the general concept seems pretty great. Everyone likes variety, and at least I also quite like Markets. Good stuff! Finalist.



8. Reaper and Sickle by BryGuy

Quote
Reaper • $5 • Treasure
Choose one: trash a Treasure from your Hand for +1 Buy and +$1; or discard a Victory for +1 Buy.
Choose one: gain a Silver; or trash a Silver from your Hand to gain a Gold to your Deck's top.
Heirloom: Sickle

Sickle • $2 • Treasure - Duration
$1
On your next turn, choose one: +1 Buy; or Treasures cost $1 less this turn.

My immediate reaction to this is that it seems very complex without a clear overarching theme. After staring at it for a while, I think that's still my main complaint. It's similar to Mine, usually giving you 1$ less but one more buy. And it trashes two cards instead of one if you use the Silver trashing option. It may be perfectly fine powerlevel-wise, but Mine is much simpler. Where's the theme?

The Heirloom also doesn't really synergize with the effect since the remodeling doesn't reference the cost of Treasures.

So yeah, too much complexity for my taste. Also two wording issues (Victory should be Victory card, and Deck's top should be Deck)



9. Doppelgaenger by LibraryAdventurer

Quote
Doppleganger
$4 - Action - Command
Turn your Journey token over. If it's face-up, play a non-Command Action card in the supply, leaving it there. Otherwise, play the True Form, leaving it there. If the card you played cost $5 or more, take <1> debt.
-
Add an unused non-Command Action card costing $3 or $4 to the game to be the True Form card.

So this alternates between playing a specific card and an arbitrary card. I like the concept a lot -- but I'm less sold on the execution. Playing an arbitrary Action card is really powerful! I know there's a 1 debt penalty, but I suspect that just won't matter all that much. There are just so many powerful Action cards in this game.

Of course, it will depend significantly on how strong the True Form is. But I think I'd liked to have some mechanism to make the True Form worse than just an average 4$. If that 4$ doesn't suck, this is extremely powerful. Say it's an Oasis, but there's an Altar or Witch or Mountebank or Forge or Cultist or any other Junker or Replace or Recruit or any other Trasher or Artisan or any other gainer .... in the game -- I think I'd very likely just open with this. Pricing it at 4$ rather than 5$ seems really pushing the powerlevel.



10. Love Potion by sumrex

Quote
Love Potion P
Treasure/ Attack
+1 Buy
You may discard any number of Treasures, for 2$ each. Then, for each discarded card do this:
If you discarded a:
Potion, each opponent discards down to 3 cards.
Gold: Gain a card costin up to 5P

Setup: Add an extra Kingdom card pile costing P or more to the Supply.

So this is very much based on the Setup clause - it doesn't scale well (i.e., you don't really want several), so it's important that it comes with another card.

And it does quite a lot of stuff -- if you discard 2 Coppers and a Potion, you've effectively generated +2$ and +1buy (so a woodcutter) while also turning your Potion into a Militia. And the Gold clause is no joke, since you only lose 1$ by discarding it for +2$. And I do like that it utilizes our Potion when you're done with Alchemy cards.

So overall, this seems pretty decent. However, it's also very complex, and if nothing else, I think the wording isn't optimal. (Especially relevant because the card is lengthy.)

And special props for limiting it to 5$P because yes screw Possession. This is an almost-Finalist.



11. Way of the Sea Serpent by Will(ow|iam)

Quote
Way of the Sea Serpent
Way - Duration
The next time you follow an Action card's instructions, follow them again.

So the way this is worded, you can stack as many of these as you want, although you can't choose when to use them. So in particular, you can't play four cards as ways, then a village, and then quadruple your Smithy. This makes it difficult to use, which is good because we don't want a Way that basically gives you Royal Carriage.

I like it. This seems like a decent way to do a Throne Room effect as a way. It's definitely one of the more poweful ways since just turning Village - Village - Village - Smithy into Village - Village - Smithy - Smithy is very strong, but I think that's fine.

Finalist.



12. Artist Village by anordinaryman

Quote
Artist Village | Action | $3
+$2
When you play a card you have no copies of in play, +1 villager.
Ignore any + Actions you get from cards this turn

I have to echo JW in that this shouldn't trigger of Treasures. You can just pick this up whenever, play it at the end of your turn, and you'll get +2$ and one or two villages, which is pretty strong for 3$, and it requires no preparation to work. Sure it gets better if you can play an Action card afterwards, but it's good even if you don't. That seems to too easy; you should have to put in some effort to get villages from a card with such low opportunity cost.

That said, I think if you took the idea but made it harder to execute, it would probably be a Finalist. I do agree that it's nice to boost silver (~:)) and that it needs a way to get off the ground; I just don't think the numbers work out. Maybe if it even just gave +1$ so that it the opportunity cost is real, it'd be a different story.









Ok, since I genuinely like the Finalists similarly, I'm not gonna be a contrarian and choose

Exotic Market by Gubump

as the winner! But I do think it is close, and especially Steelworks seems like a similarly strong design to me.  That said, Exotic Market is super neat, and I've found nothing to criticize, so it certainly deserves first place.

Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #200: Do What You Love
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2023, 02:15:42 pm »
0

Thanks for the win! Next contest is up.
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