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Author Topic: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *  (Read 5762 times)

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Donald X.

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2022, 02:27:45 pm »
+3

Does Inherited work from the top of the pile first, or are we all starting with a Fortune this game?
No, you all get a Gladiator. Except in a 6 player game, then the last Player is the lucky one :-)

Is that the actual rule for Inherited split piles? Seems very unfair at least with Glad./Fortune, almost game over before turn 1...
In multiplayer IRL, I recommend not putting Inherited on a split pile, unless that's the fun you want. It's as easy as that. Online, there is not so much multiplayer, and if it comes up, well you can reroll the board if you want. You're playing with friends there, right?

No regrets here.
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mxdata

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2022, 02:58:29 pm »
0

Interesting that Inherited can potentially create a situation where each player's starting cards are different. In practice, it probably won't happen much, because most of the time everyone's just going to replace one of the starting Estates, and if it's a kingdom that would favor replacing a Copper instead, it's likely that both players would realize that. But still, even the possibility of that happening is interesting
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Gherald

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2022, 02:59:39 pm »
+2

The most likely scenario of different choices being made is with shelters.
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mxdata

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2022, 03:12:49 pm »
+1

Inherited Pillage could be potentially really brutal. There's a decent chance that one player could force the other to discard their Pillage, meaning that after the first shuffle, one player has two Spoils and the other doesn't
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cookiedrugs

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2022, 03:30:10 pm »
+1

Inherited's official FAQ says:
- Replaced Coppers go back to the pile
- Replaced Estates/Shelters/Heirlooms go back to the box

It is of course consistent with the replacement rules of shelters and heirlooms. But why exactly does copper have a special position? What happens if one day a starting card is replaced by silver and you selected it with Inherited? I know, hypothetically, but Donald has been trying to be future-proof in recent years.
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Gherald

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2022, 03:41:23 pm »
+2

The issue with Estates is you want there to be a consistent 8 or 12 in the starting pile. For other cards it doesn't matter, you just do what's convenient, and keeping track of a loose copper that's been put back in the box is just pointless. It'd be pointless for Silver too, but not as pointless as worrying about a currently non-existent pointless scenario  ;)
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GendoIkari

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2022, 04:28:21 pm »
+5

Inherited's official FAQ says:
- Replaced Coppers go back to the pile
- Replaced Estates/Shelters/Heirlooms go back to the box

It is of course consistent with the replacement rules of shelters and heirlooms. But why exactly does copper have a special position? What happens if one day a starting card is replaced by silver and you selected it with Inherited? I know, hypothetically, but Donald has been trying to be future-proof in recent years.

In a normal even just base set game, the Copper Pile already changes sizes based on how many sets of 7 are being used for starting hands. The Estate pile does not; the Estate pile is a fixed size based on player count and extras stay in the box. So the rule for Inherited just keeps the normal rule for Coppers that aren't part of starting hands.
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cookiedrugs

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2022, 05:50:36 pm »
0

Of course the decision makes sense. I just wanted to find a uniform rule for replacing. After thinking about it again, maybe this works: "The start card being replaced returns to where it came from".
- Shelters/Heirloom are extra cards came from the box
- The Estate pile remains untouched before and after the starting Estate cards are handed out, since they came from the box
- The Coppers are taken from the Copper pile
So there is no special case. Sorry for this little rule digression :)
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Gherald

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2022, 06:14:11 pm »
+2

Well you know the Estate being replaced didn't come from the Victory supply pile laid out for the game, but new players don't know that. So we just tell them exactly what to do rather than have things be confusing.
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Jeebus

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2022, 04:58:38 am »
0

This means that now we need an official order of resolving the setup instructions from different sets. If the Shelters setup or the Heirlooms setup had come after the Traits setup, a Shelter or Heirloom couldn't be replaces by Inherited.

Also, if the Young Witch setup comes after the Traits setup, the Bane pile can't be chosen for a Trait. I don't know if there's an official ruling on that one.

dirkdebeule

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2022, 06:57:02 am »
0

This means that now we need an official order of resolving the setup instructions from different sets. If the Shelters setup or the Heirlooms setup had come after the Traits setup, a Shelter or Heirloom couldn't be replaces by Inherited.

Also, if the Young Witch setup comes after the Traits setup, the Bane pile can't be chosen for a Trait. I don't know if there's an official ruling on that one.

Dutch Rule Book says (translated):
- Handing out the deck (Coppers/Estates) is the last step in preparation. So no problem there.
- Each game is determined by the players in consultation with which 10 of the xx species will be played. So use common sense to fix e.g. Bane "problem" ;)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 07:00:45 am by dirkdebeule »
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Jeebus

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2022, 07:06:22 am »
0

This means that now we need an official order of resolving the setup instructions from different sets. If the Shelters setup or the Heirlooms setup had come after the Traits setup, a Shelter or Heirloom couldn't be replaces by Inherited.

Also, if the Young Witch setup comes after the Traits setup, the Bane pile can't be chosen for a Trait. I don't know if there's an official ruling on that one.

Dutch Rule Books say (translated):
- Handing out the deck (Coppers/Estates) is the last step in preparation. So no problem there.
- Each game is determined by the players in consultation with which 10 of the xx species will be played. So use common sense to fix e.g. Bane "problem" ;)

As far as I can see, handing out Coppers and Estates has to come before setting up Traits (so not as the last step), or you couldn't replace them for Inherited.

When it comes to the Bane thing, it's not a problem to be solved; I was just wondering if it can be chosen for a Trait officially. Of course as always players can play however they want at home, like with the rule for including Platinum/Colony for instance.

AJD

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2022, 09:39:03 am »
0

This means that now we need an official order of resolving the setup instructions from different sets. If the Shelters setup or the Heirlooms setup had come after the Traits setup, a Shelter or Heirloom couldn't be replaces by Inherited.

Also, if the Young Witch setup comes after the Traits setup, the Bane pile can't be chosen for a Trait. I don't know if there's an official ruling on that one.

Dutch Rule Books say (translated):
- Handing out the deck (Coppers/Estates) is the last step in preparation. So no problem there.
- Each game is determined by the players in consultation with which 10 of the xx species will be played. So use common sense to fix e.g. Bane "problem" ;)

As far as I can see, handing out Coppers and Estates has to come before setting up Traits (so not as the last step), or you couldn't replace them for Inherited.

That's not quite right. First you choose a kingdom card to be Inherited; then everyone chooses which starting card to replace; then you hand out starting cards based on those choices.
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Jeebus

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2022, 10:08:02 am »
0

This means that now we need an official order of resolving the setup instructions from different sets. If the Shelters setup or the Heirlooms setup had come after the Traits setup, a Shelter or Heirloom couldn't be replaces by Inherited.

Also, if the Young Witch setup comes after the Traits setup, the Bane pile can't be chosen for a Trait. I don't know if there's an official ruling on that one.

Dutch Rule Books say (translated):
- Handing out the deck (Coppers/Estates) is the last step in preparation. So no problem there.
- Each game is determined by the players in consultation with which 10 of the xx species will be played. So use common sense to fix e.g. Bane "problem" ;)

As far as I can see, handing out Coppers and Estates has to come before setting up Traits (so not as the last step), or you couldn't replace them for Inherited.

That's not quite right. First you choose a kingdom card to be Inherited; then everyone chooses which starting card to replace; then you hand out starting cards based on those choices.

I was basing it on the purported official FAQ quoted above. There it says that the replaced cards are placed back on the pile or in the box. That means you would have to have the cards first.

In any case, both ways work of course. But let's say not all players are familiar with the Heirlooms or Shelters. It would then be pretty silly to explain the Heirlooms/Shelters they are about to receive in a little bit and ask them if they wanted to replace one of them, instead of just handing them all the starting cards and then ask.

But I was talking about the official order of setup. And it seems weird technically to do the Traits setup first, deciding which cards to replace before you have even gotten to the part of setup that determines Heirlooms and Shelters. Actually, in the case of Shelters, it would be impossible.

« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 10:10:12 am by Jeebus »
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