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Author Topic: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *  (Read 5760 times)

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Donald X.

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* Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« on: December 15, 2022, 03:00:10 am »
+20

Plunder has a sub-theme for its Duration cards: next time. Cards that do something the next time a certain thing happens. They just sit around in play turn after turn, waiting for that thing. The thing may immediately happen of course, so that they're discarded that turn. Or it may never happen, and all they do is help out your Swamp Shacks and Tools. Let's see some.



Secluded Shrine is a basic one. Get a Treasure, and you'll get to trash two things. When you're done getting Treasures, Secluded Shrine will quietly leave your deck and just sit there forlornly in play.

Abundance is also simple: get an Action, and you get +$3 and +1 Buy. You can save up for a big turn, or just pop it immediately as a warped Workshop.

Flagship replays your next Action, skipping tricky things like other Flagships.

Landing Party is an exotic one: you have to have a turn that you launch with Treasure, and then all your Landing Partys will topdeck.

Now some landscapes!



Rush lets an Action leap into play; more useful with some Actions than others.

Inherited is a Trait that has you start the game with a particular card (usually replacing an Estate, but it's up to you). Good times.

Hasty makes a particular card leap into play, albeit a turn later. This one is useful on almost anything. A Hasty Territory goes into play but doesn't do anything else for being played; as always there's a rulebook.

Tomorrow: more stuff.
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dirkdebeule

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2022, 04:33:57 am »
+1

Inherited an Overlord and the game is on 😁
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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2022, 07:08:42 am »
0

Any particular reason Flagship doesn't say "afterwards" like Citadels and Landing Party? I assume it has the same timing?

NoMoreFun

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2022, 07:33:41 am »
+2

The most interesting difference between these cards and Reserves is that they can activate when you don't really want them to.

Abundance might be one of my favourite cards yet in terms of the tactics around playing it.
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Aquila

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2022, 07:37:26 am »
+1

Does Inherited work from the top of the pile first, or are we all starting with a Fortune this game?
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dirkdebeule

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2022, 07:41:27 am »
+6

Does Inherited work from the top of the pile first, or are we all starting with a Fortune this game?
No, you all get a Gladiator. Except in a 6 player game, then the last Player is the lucky one :-)
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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2022, 07:46:03 am »
+1

Does Inherited work from the top of the pile first, or are we all starting with a Fortune this game?
No, you all get a Gladiator. Except in a 6 player game, then the last Player is the lucky one :-)
Also funny with split piles from Allies in a 5 player game, and Castles with any player count (although in 2 player both would start with Humble).

NoMoreFun

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2022, 07:54:35 am »
+4

Does Inherited work from the top of the pile first, or are we all starting with a Fortune this game?
No, you all get a Gladiator. Except in a 6 player game, then the last Player is the lucky one :-)
Also funny with split piles from Allies in a 5 player game, and Castles with any player count (although in 2 player both would start with Humble).

The Castle pile is simply Victory-Castle, so Traits don't apply to it. I think Territory is the only non Action/Treasure card that can get caught up in Traits.
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Jeebus

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2022, 08:00:51 am »
+2

Does Inherited work from the top of the pile first, or are we all starting with a Fortune this game?
No, you all get a Gladiator. Except in a 6 player game, then the last Player is the lucky one :-)
Also funny with split piles from Allies in a 5 player game, and Castles with any player count (although in 2 player both would start with Humble).

The Castle pile is simply Victory-Castle, so Traits don't apply to it. I think Territory is the only non Action/Treasure card that can get caught up in Traits.
Right!
... Knights is one that will potentially unbalance the game from the start with any player count.

Gherald

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2022, 08:04:14 am »
+6

Quote
Territory is the only non Action/Treasure card that can get caught up in Traits.
Kinda unlucky being player 13-16 in a game with an Inherited clashes pile
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NoMoreFun

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2022, 08:06:03 am »
0

Seems like some Traits make cards pretty bonkers (Cheap Seer, Hasty Experiment, Inherited Possession), but the probability is low enough that it doesn't matter.

I can also imagine a few card (shaped things) seeming a lot weaker in full random than in the previews like Prosper, Pendant, Wealthy Village.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2022, 08:07:41 am by NoMoreFun »
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Jack Rudd

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2022, 08:31:24 am »
+3

Inherited Rebuild. Now there's a time you may want to replace a Copper.
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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2022, 08:42:33 am »
+1

Inherited Rebuild. Now there's a time you may want to replace a Copper.
Also when Inheritance is on the table  :)
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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2022, 09:32:25 am »
0

Any particular reason Flagship doesn't say "afterwards" like Citadels and Landing Party? I assume it has the same timing?

Yes Flagship is a Royal Carriage.

For the wording, well I can't speak for Donald X., but I'll just assume that, no playtester was ever confused by it and there were other things to work on. And these other things include that command clause.

The command clause exists because Band of Misfits / Overlord would have generated infinite money with Flagship. At the same time, Flagship working with other Flagships would probably confuse too many people (I think people are still confused/annoyed by Mastermind Mastermind? not sure). So the command thing was the simplest solution (other than, killing the card).

And I'll just answer this here:
-If you play Flagship and then BoM, Flagship replays the card that BoM plays.
-If you play Flagship and then Necromancer, Flagship replays the Necromancer (so you have a pick a different action in the trash).
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mxdata

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2022, 10:24:59 am »
+3

For clarification: You say that Inherited can replace any starting card - this would include any Heirlooms, right?
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dirkdebeule

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2022, 10:35:29 am »
+3

For clarification: You say that Inherited can replace any starting card - this would include any Heirlooms, right?
Correct
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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2022, 10:54:23 am »
+5

Landing Party/Prepare is a neat and even kind of thematic combo.
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mxdata

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2022, 11:18:48 am »
+1

Landing Party would be really strong with Capitalism
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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2022, 11:23:52 am »
+1

Crown is another nice Landing Party interaction.
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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2022, 12:24:20 pm »
0

So, barring things like Ways or Enchantress, Landing Party would never get discarded from play, right? You play it, then it sits around until a turn where the first card you play is a Treasure, and at that point it gets top-decked, so when it comes to the Clean-Up phase, the only time it'll ever be in play is if it's still waiting for that trigger
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Gherald

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2022, 01:08:35 pm »
+1

So far my favorite Landing Party enabler is..Band of Misfits :D
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4est

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2022, 01:13:03 pm »
+2

So, barring things like Ways or Enchantress, Landing Party would never get discarded from play, right? You play it, then it sits around until a turn where the first card you play is a Treasure, and at that point it gets top-decked, so when it comes to the Clean-Up phase, the only time it'll ever be in play is if it's still waiting for that trigger

Landing Parties can never be Schemed or Improved it looks like.
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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2022, 01:41:12 pm »
0

So far my favorite Landing Party enabler is..Band of Misfits :D

Hmm... so if you Band of Misfits / Landing Party, the Band of Misfits is discarded from play on the turn it's played, as if it were Lost City, is what you're saying? I guess that's because:
* Band of Misfits stays in play for as many turns as the Duration card it's commanding still has something left to do;
* the only thing that the Landing Party has left to do is top-deck itself from play;
* since Landing Party is not in play, we know it's not going to do that;
* therefore the Landing Party has nothing left to do;
* therefore the Band of Misfits is discarded this turn.

...Ah, I see, it's the same reasoning as Band of Misfits / Conjurer.
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Holger

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2022, 01:56:52 pm »
0

Does Inherited work from the top of the pile first, or are we all starting with a Fortune this game?
No, you all get a Gladiator. Except in a 6 player game, then the last Player is the lucky one :-)

Is that the actual rule for Inherited split piles? Seems very unfair at least with Glad./Fortune, almost game over before turn 1...
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Donald X.

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2022, 02:22:53 pm »
+1

Any particular reason Flagship doesn't say "afterwards" like Citadels and Landing Party? I assume it has the same timing?
"Afterwards" might be good on Flagship for clarity; it's just an oversight that it's not there.
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Donald X.

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2022, 02:27:45 pm »
+3

Does Inherited work from the top of the pile first, or are we all starting with a Fortune this game?
No, you all get a Gladiator. Except in a 6 player game, then the last Player is the lucky one :-)

Is that the actual rule for Inherited split piles? Seems very unfair at least with Glad./Fortune, almost game over before turn 1...
In multiplayer IRL, I recommend not putting Inherited on a split pile, unless that's the fun you want. It's as easy as that. Online, there is not so much multiplayer, and if it comes up, well you can reroll the board if you want. You're playing with friends there, right?

No regrets here.
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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2022, 02:58:29 pm »
0

Interesting that Inherited can potentially create a situation where each player's starting cards are different. In practice, it probably won't happen much, because most of the time everyone's just going to replace one of the starting Estates, and if it's a kingdom that would favor replacing a Copper instead, it's likely that both players would realize that. But still, even the possibility of that happening is interesting
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Gherald

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2022, 02:59:39 pm »
+2

The most likely scenario of different choices being made is with shelters.
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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2022, 03:12:49 pm »
+1

Inherited Pillage could be potentially really brutal. There's a decent chance that one player could force the other to discard their Pillage, meaning that after the first shuffle, one player has two Spoils and the other doesn't
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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2022, 03:30:10 pm »
+1

Inherited's official FAQ says:
- Replaced Coppers go back to the pile
- Replaced Estates/Shelters/Heirlooms go back to the box

It is of course consistent with the replacement rules of shelters and heirlooms. But why exactly does copper have a special position? What happens if one day a starting card is replaced by silver and you selected it with Inherited? I know, hypothetically, but Donald has been trying to be future-proof in recent years.
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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2022, 03:41:23 pm »
+2

The issue with Estates is you want there to be a consistent 8 or 12 in the starting pile. For other cards it doesn't matter, you just do what's convenient, and keeping track of a loose copper that's been put back in the box is just pointless. It'd be pointless for Silver too, but not as pointless as worrying about a currently non-existent pointless scenario  ;)
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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2022, 04:28:21 pm »
+5

Inherited's official FAQ says:
- Replaced Coppers go back to the pile
- Replaced Estates/Shelters/Heirlooms go back to the box

It is of course consistent with the replacement rules of shelters and heirlooms. But why exactly does copper have a special position? What happens if one day a starting card is replaced by silver and you selected it with Inherited? I know, hypothetically, but Donald has been trying to be future-proof in recent years.

In a normal even just base set game, the Copper Pile already changes sizes based on how many sets of 7 are being used for starting hands. The Estate pile does not; the Estate pile is a fixed size based on player count and extras stay in the box. So the rule for Inherited just keeps the normal rule for Coppers that aren't part of starting hands.
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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2022, 05:50:36 pm »
0

Of course the decision makes sense. I just wanted to find a uniform rule for replacing. After thinking about it again, maybe this works: "The start card being replaced returns to where it came from".
- Shelters/Heirloom are extra cards came from the box
- The Estate pile remains untouched before and after the starting Estate cards are handed out, since they came from the box
- The Coppers are taken from the Copper pile
So there is no special case. Sorry for this little rule digression :)
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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2022, 06:14:11 pm »
+2

Well you know the Estate being replaced didn't come from the Victory supply pile laid out for the game, but new players don't know that. So we just tell them exactly what to do rather than have things be confusing.
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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2022, 04:58:38 am »
0

This means that now we need an official order of resolving the setup instructions from different sets. If the Shelters setup or the Heirlooms setup had come after the Traits setup, a Shelter or Heirloom couldn't be replaces by Inherited.

Also, if the Young Witch setup comes after the Traits setup, the Bane pile can't be chosen for a Trait. I don't know if there's an official ruling on that one.

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2022, 06:57:02 am »
0

This means that now we need an official order of resolving the setup instructions from different sets. If the Shelters setup or the Heirlooms setup had come after the Traits setup, a Shelter or Heirloom couldn't be replaces by Inherited.

Also, if the Young Witch setup comes after the Traits setup, the Bane pile can't be chosen for a Trait. I don't know if there's an official ruling on that one.

Dutch Rule Book says (translated):
- Handing out the deck (Coppers/Estates) is the last step in preparation. So no problem there.
- Each game is determined by the players in consultation with which 10 of the xx species will be played. So use common sense to fix e.g. Bane "problem" ;)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 07:00:45 am by dirkdebeule »
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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2022, 07:06:22 am »
0

This means that now we need an official order of resolving the setup instructions from different sets. If the Shelters setup or the Heirlooms setup had come after the Traits setup, a Shelter or Heirloom couldn't be replaces by Inherited.

Also, if the Young Witch setup comes after the Traits setup, the Bane pile can't be chosen for a Trait. I don't know if there's an official ruling on that one.

Dutch Rule Books say (translated):
- Handing out the deck (Coppers/Estates) is the last step in preparation. So no problem there.
- Each game is determined by the players in consultation with which 10 of the xx species will be played. So use common sense to fix e.g. Bane "problem" ;)

As far as I can see, handing out Coppers and Estates has to come before setting up Traits (so not as the last step), or you couldn't replace them for Inherited.

When it comes to the Bane thing, it's not a problem to be solved; I was just wondering if it can be chosen for a Trait officially. Of course as always players can play however they want at home, like with the rule for including Platinum/Colony for instance.

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2022, 09:39:03 am »
0

This means that now we need an official order of resolving the setup instructions from different sets. If the Shelters setup or the Heirlooms setup had come after the Traits setup, a Shelter or Heirloom couldn't be replaces by Inherited.

Also, if the Young Witch setup comes after the Traits setup, the Bane pile can't be chosen for a Trait. I don't know if there's an official ruling on that one.

Dutch Rule Books say (translated):
- Handing out the deck (Coppers/Estates) is the last step in preparation. So no problem there.
- Each game is determined by the players in consultation with which 10 of the xx species will be played. So use common sense to fix e.g. Bane "problem" ;)

As far as I can see, handing out Coppers and Estates has to come before setting up Traits (so not as the last step), or you couldn't replace them for Inherited.

That's not quite right. First you choose a kingdom card to be Inherited; then everyone chooses which starting card to replace; then you hand out starting cards based on those choices.
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Jeebus

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Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2022, 10:08:02 am »
0

This means that now we need an official order of resolving the setup instructions from different sets. If the Shelters setup or the Heirlooms setup had come after the Traits setup, a Shelter or Heirloom couldn't be replaces by Inherited.

Also, if the Young Witch setup comes after the Traits setup, the Bane pile can't be chosen for a Trait. I don't know if there's an official ruling on that one.

Dutch Rule Books say (translated):
- Handing out the deck (Coppers/Estates) is the last step in preparation. So no problem there.
- Each game is determined by the players in consultation with which 10 of the xx species will be played. So use common sense to fix e.g. Bane "problem" ;)

As far as I can see, handing out Coppers and Estates has to come before setting up Traits (so not as the last step), or you couldn't replace them for Inherited.

That's not quite right. First you choose a kingdom card to be Inherited; then everyone chooses which starting card to replace; then you hand out starting cards based on those choices.

I was basing it on the purported official FAQ quoted above. There it says that the replaced cards are placed back on the pile or in the box. That means you would have to have the cards first.

In any case, both ways work of course. But let's say not all players are familiar with the Heirlooms or Shelters. It would then be pretty silly to explain the Heirlooms/Shelters they are about to receive in a little bit and ask them if they wanted to replace one of them, instead of just handing them all the starting cards and then ask.

But I was talking about the official order of setup. And it seems weird technically to do the Traits setup first, deciding which cards to replace before you have even gotten to the part of setup that determines Heirlooms and Shelters. Actually, in the case of Shelters, it would be impossible.

« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 10:10:12 am by Jeebus »
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