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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot  (Read 3841 times)

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nagdon

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2022, 07:12:42 am »
+2

And my own submission, a one-shot Remodel variant:


This is primarily a strong oneshot Estate trasher, which is somewhat similar to Island, but gains a strong card instead of the 3 VP hidden away for the endgame. (It will frequently gain $5 Actions, acting like a single-use Altar, but it becomes even better in the presence of good $6 cards.) In the opening/early game this is a very good choice for $4; but if you have $5, you probably buy the best $5 card directly (if its first play is more useful than "Trash an Estate from your hand.").

Similarly to other Estate trashers, it has an unhappy case where it appears with 4 Coppers in turn 3/4; in that case it can trash one Copper to either regain itself or gain another $4 card. Unlike most cards that work with Estates, this remains relevant in games with Shelters, because it can still turn a Shelter into a nice $5 card.

Later in the game it can be used for gaining Provinces, especially when there are Workshop variants to gain lots of Bricks and enough +Cards/+Actions to support this terminal, handsize-reducing payload. In the presence of the usual suspects (Fortress, Rats, Trail) it is powerful, but those strategies pile out Provinces or other strong cards (as opposed to Bishop/Fortress, which just generates VP) and still require repeated $4 gains to recover the Bricks.

Bricks return to the Supply (instead to trashing itself) to make it more viable as a Curse removal tool (when there are no other trashers), but some copies will still end up in the trash when two Bricks are used to gain a Province. (Theoretical note: this could participate in infinite loops, but the mandatory trashing means that it only loops with a gain-from-trash card; so those loops won't be simpler than the already existing ones.)

I was thinking about making this throne-compatible, but I had to add the "If you do" because otherwise it would have been crazy with Captain / Band of Misfits / Overlord.

This needs to be a one-shot card (instead of an Event or a new token type) because "being a stop card" is a significant part of its cost and the Bricks + Bricks = Province interaction will be relevant in many games.
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kru5h

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2022, 09:51:23 am »
+5

This is a re-implementation of an older card of mine:

Quote
Mask Salesman Action - Command,
Trash this.
Play a non-Command Action card from the Supply costing up to , leaving it there.

xyz123

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2022, 10:27:48 am »
+2

Study
Action
7 Debt

Draw until you have 8 cards in hand. If you already have another Study in play trash this.


Note - Modified to change the cost from $4 following feedback.

« Last Edit: November 22, 2022, 03:51:37 pm by xyz123 »
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2022, 11:09:11 am »
+5


The copper trashing is mandatory if you have one in play, but for the majority of decks that's a good thing.
I priced it at $4 just thinking about openings, but do you guys think it should be cheaper? One-shots are hard for me to gauge.

You need to specify how many +Action(s) this gives. Since it say +Action I presume you meant for it to be 1, but if so it should say +1 Action.



Study
Action
$4

Draw until you have 8 cards in hand.
__________________________________________________________
When you play this, if you already have another Study in play trash this.

This seems extremely strong. From a 5 card hand this is +4 Cards, which is equivalent to a Hunting Grounds (which costs $6). In the presence of any hand size attacks or disappearing money it is even stronger. And since it is terminal, a player could play this card without villages and never worry about the trashing because they only ever play one copy. Moreover, at $4 it is playable by basically every Command card in the game, all of which can use it multiple times without triggering the trashing effect.

Also, you don't need a vertical line for an on-play effect. That's what the regular text box is. Thus, it should just say:

Quote
Draw until you have 8 cards in hand. If you already have another Study in play trash this.
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sumrex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2022, 11:22:09 am »
0

I think Herald and Hero's Demise have approximately the same strength because Herald is very weak at the beginning of the game and "comes online" only when you managed to trash most of your starting deck. I'd perhaps make Hero's Demise return to the supply (like Encampment) because otherwise it has a chance to just "disappear" from the game, but it's a good card in its current form as well.

I think its a interesting difference with encampment, encampment will only run out if you play them well, with Demise they dissappear if you play them wrong. I think it's OK to trash because it's no split pile, so you natively have double the ammount of copies aviable.
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nagdon

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2022, 03:31:42 pm »
0

Yup, that's another way of looking at it. I think that if we consider a single card in isolation, then the return-to-supply of Encampment is slightly more interesting than the self-trashing of Hero's Demise, but the value of "it's different from the other similar card" is a good reason to implement Hero's Demise this way.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2022, 03:40:24 pm »
+2


The copper trashing is mandatory if you have one in play, but for the majority of decks that's a good thing.
I priced it at $4 just thinking about openings, but do you guys think it should be cheaper? One-shots are hard for me to gauge.

You need to specify how many +Action(s) this gives. Since it say +Action I presume you meant for it to be 1, but if so it should say +1 Action.



Study
Action
$4

Draw until you have 8 cards in hand.
__________________________________________________________
When you play this, if you already have another Study in play trash this.

This seems extremely strong. From a 5 card hand this is +4 Cards, which is equivalent to a Hunting Grounds (which costs $6). In the presence of any hand size attacks or disappearing money it is even stronger. And since it is terminal, a player could play this card without villages and never worry about the trashing because they only ever play one copy. Moreover, at $4 it is playable by basically every Command card in the game, all of which can use it multiple times without triggering the trashing effect.

Also, you don't need a vertical line for an on-play effect. That's what the regular text box is. Thus, it should just say:

Quote
Draw until you have 8 cards in hand. If you already have another Study in play trash this.
I agree. As the self-trashing is only relevant in engines, this is likely broken in BM as it is obviously strictly better than Smithy BM.
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xyz123

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2022, 03:51:20 pm »
0

Study
Action
$4

Draw until you have 8 cards in hand.
__________________________________________________________
When you play this, if you already have another Study in play trash this.

This seems extremely strong. From a 5 card hand this is +4 Cards, which is equivalent to a Hunting Grounds (which costs $6). In the presence of any hand size attacks or disappearing money it is even stronger. And since it is terminal, a player could play this card without villages and never worry about the trashing because they only ever play one copy. Moreover, at $4 it is playable by basically every Command card in the game, all of which can use it multiple times without triggering the trashing effect.

Also, you don't need a vertical line for an on-play effect. That's what the regular text box is. Thus, it should just say:

Quote
Draw until you have 8 cards in hand. If you already have another Study in play trash this.
I agree. As the self-trashing is only relevant in engines, this is likely broken in BM as it is obviously strictly better than Smithy BM.

Thanks for the feedback. I hadn't considered the impact of command cards. I have decided to try pricing it at 7 debt. That stops it being available  to command cards and acknowledges that it is better than Hunting Grounds in money games.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2022, 02:40:11 am »
+4

Morgue
Action - $3
+4 Cards
At the start of your buy phase, you may discard an Action from your hand. If you didn't, return this to its pile.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2022, 04:10:54 am by NoMoreFun »
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nagdon

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2022, 03:11:10 pm »
+3

Morgue
Action - $3
+4 Cards
At the start of your buy phase, you may reveal an Action from your hand. If you didn't, return this to its pile.

This seems to be way too strong for $3 because the "you must have at least one unused Action card in hand" criterion is very easy to satisfy. If there is village support, Morgues will draw your deck even without trashing the starting cards, and then keeping one cheap action card (e.g. one extra copy of Morgue, because owning more provides consistency and it's still cheap) in hand allows you to keep all the Morgues that you play. (It's also very good for e.g. spiking $6 or even $7 in the opening, although in those cases there is a chance that it will be returned.)

I think you should either raise the cost of this card to $5, or raise the cost to $4 and write "discard" instead of "reveal" in the return condition.
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anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2022, 03:52:51 am »
+2



Quote
Adorn | Night | $4
Trash a non-Duration card you have in play. Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.
-
When you trash this, gain a Copper.

I've played around with this concept before. You can use this as a copper trasher (assuming Poor House is not in the Kingdom, etc), if so, it sort of works like +1 Action +$1 trash a card from your hand. You can us this to Improve your action (or night cards) or silvers, even after playing them! Of course the gained card won't be really drawable since you're in your night phase when playing this. When you're done with Adorn, you can self-trash/ one shot it for a $5 cost. The reason for the copper gain is to prevent it from being strictly better than feast.

This card seems to be a strong and flexible trasher with no downside, so I'm wondering if it might be better to change the last line to "When you gain or trash this, gain a Copper." -- that would weaken the card significantly, maybe too much.
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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2022, 11:44:45 am »
+1



Quote
Burnt Offering - $5
Action
Trash this to gain a Gold.
Trash your hand, then, for each differently named card trashed this way, gain a card costing up to $2 more than it and a Copper.

Things of note.
1: You must trash Burnt Offering to get the Gold.
2: You remodel and gain a Copper only once for each differently named card trashed.
3: The second effect only counts the cards Burnt Offering trashes from your hand.

A once-shot mass trashing/remodeling card that also gains you a Gold. I am not sure if this is priced right at $5. The Gold gain is there to try and offset the self trashing. Feedback is welcome.
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SignError

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2022, 12:45:06 pm »
+4



Quote
Gunpowder - $4
Action - Attack

+1 Buy
+$2

You may trash this. If you did, choose one: Trash up to 3 cards from your hand; or each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand.

Gunpowder is a Woodcutter variant; youíre just building your things with quarried stone instead of wood.  Optionally you can use all your stockpile of Gunpowder in one large explosion, destroying your hand or that of your enemy.  Originally it was more like Minion, except your own hand was trashed instead of discarded.  That didnít give a lot of control over what was trashed, and I know many people hate the Minion attack, so I eventually changed it to be more like vanilla Chapel and Militia.  Limiting the trashing to 3 cards incentivizes you to keep around a Treasure and make use of the $2; as well as mirroring the 3 in the attack.  The attack option is tempting early on when you draw Gunpowder with your other opening purchase and a handful of Coppers.  There are probably better things to be doing than repeatedly gaining Gunpowder for the attack.  But maybe there is a Workshop variant in the kingdom, and sometimes repeatedly gaining Pillage is even of strategic importance.
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2022, 01:48:02 pm »
+5

« Last Edit: November 26, 2022, 03:22:28 am by Gubump »
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exfret

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2022, 05:21:30 pm »
0



I remember there being some problems with cards in different places costing different amounts, though I can't remember them. Just something to be careful of.
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spheremonk

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2022, 10:57:53 pm »
+2

A nest of one-shots.

   

Thanks to Gubump for several excellent language suggestions.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2022, 12:02:32 am by spheremonk »
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2022, 11:09:04 pm »
+7

A nest of one-shots.

   

1. Venture Capitalist needs to say where the trashed card comes from (I assume your hand).
2. Treasures don't have "when you play this" anymore, you can just say "trash this" on Seed Money.
3. Financing's 2nd sentence is weird punctuation-wise. You can (and should, imo) say
Quote
If you did, trash up to 4 cards from your hand or discard pile, and gain every Seed Money in the trash.
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exfret

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2022, 12:32:47 am »
+6

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2022, 12:06:07 pm »
+3

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exfret

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2022, 03:56:18 pm »
+3



I don't know if the victory point is worth it being trashed on the first play. I feel like the effect should be more or the cost less.
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arowdok

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #45 on: November 25, 2022, 04:28:06 pm »
+2

My entry this week is a project but should act some what like a repurchasable one shot card

Quote
Infrastructure
@5
Project
Directly after you finish playing an Action or Treasure card, if it's still in play, you may return your purchase token from here, to replay that card twice..

I am quite uncertain on the price and wording of this card. $5 felt like too much vs just buying a good high drop card and $4 felt too little so I am test out @5 as a middle ground. I know Debt combos with +Buys effects a bit. Though given tempo negative of buying a 1 shot effect, most a boards without a +Buys will probably ignore this card no matter the cost. Which I am okay with as many landscape cards are best when they are useful on some boards and ignore on board others, identify which is which part of player skill.

I am want players to be able to buy this project then use it then buy this project again if they want to. Players should NOT be able to buy multiple "charges" of this to use in the same turn, barring entering and exiting the buy phase some how.
Overall I hope players are excited to use this King's Court like tripling effect. Though this card is much more limited in scope as it can not chain combo with itself and each use costs money. Though it should be quite strong as players can now target Treasure cards and the upfront cost is not as high as King's court. The other comparison point would be Royal Carriage as they are both copy effects that wait patiently for the perfect target. This new card is stronger as it does not take a draw to set it up, and copies an additional time. This new card is weaker as players have to repurchase this for each use. The last comparison I would like to point out is Citadel, which tends to copy less desirable cards, 1st actions played in most turns tend to be villages and such. The $8 upfront cost is a lot compared to @5 but is payed only once vs the repeated nature of this new card. So overall I hope this card effect can find a home, even if the numbers need some tweaking.
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czzzz

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #46 on: November 25, 2022, 07:16:56 pm »
+1

I don't know if the victory point is worth it being trashed on the first play. I feel like the effect should be more or the cost less.
Potentially. But I could see games where I might be set up to use this as it is. I think it depends on how niche X-tra is aiming for Recycled Goods to be.
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SignError

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #47 on: November 25, 2022, 07:17:41 pm »
+2



Recycled Goods can copy Duchessís ďIn games using thisĒ wording. It also doesnít need the Reaction type because the contents of the trash are common knowledge.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2022, 07:20:44 pm by SignError »
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LTaco

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #48 on: November 25, 2022, 07:25:49 pm »
+1




Modified to include "from your hand".
Thanks for catching that @Gubump
« Last Edit: November 26, 2022, 07:41:37 am by LTaco »
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #169: I Am Not Throwing Away My [One-]Shot
« Reply #49 on: November 25, 2022, 08:00:18 pm »
+2



Needs to specify "you may trash this from your hand."
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